Still a brewer?

[Tiber_Brew]

This is related to some discussions I've had with friends, strangers, and have seen some related discussions even here on HBT.

The meat of the issue is whether or not someone could still call themselves a brewer if they only use the following setup:

• Beer recipe software, one that writes recipes for you and calculates volumes, temperatures, color, ABV, etc.
• Automated brewing system. One that opens valves, adjusts temperatures, transfers product, and more automatically. "Push button brewing."

Here's my answer, and why:

I don't think there's any question about it. It doesn't matter whether you carry 5 gallon buckets of wort across your kitchen, boil syrups and DME, or push a button and relax; you're a brewer.

Here's an analogy:
I'm an engineer. I don't use slide rules or T-squares, but I have a thorough understanding of theory and application of the physical laws and theorems that go into what I do. I use tools that help me make a better, more consistent product and make more of it. The exact same applies to brewing.

This might seem a little obvious to most here, but you'd be surprised at the number of people who claim the head "brewer" at AB, Miller, Coors, etc., aren't "really brewers." Sure, some of the crafty aspect is diminished with more automated systems. How is it defined? In your words or someone else's?

I have a feeling that I won't be surprised with the responses here. That's a good thing.

Cheers!
TB

 

[Airborneguy]

No beer -> Person -> beer

The person is creating beer no matter how it is accomplished. Unless someone else does it for them or they buy it, they are a brewer in my eyes.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I have never heard that before... by that standard, no professional brewer would be an actual brewer. Only the very smallest breweries are not automated, and even the tiny ones generally have at least some level of temperature control.

I think some of your friends need a facepalm.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I have never heard that before... by that standard, no professional brewer would be an actual brewer. Only the very smallest breweries are not automated, and even the tiny ones generally have at least some level of temperature control.

I think some of your friends need a facepalm.

To be fair, most of the people who say that, aren't brewers themselves. But, yes, I agree.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

No beer -> Person -> beer

That might be the simplest, and best way to put it.

 

[a10t2]

Beer recipe software, one that writes recipes for you and calculates volumes, temperatures, color, ABV, etc.

If someone offered software like that I would buy it in a heartbeat. "Computer, brew me 5 gallons of award-winning Helles, please."

Brewing starts with a recipe. Computers suck at writing recipes.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

[...]

Computers suck at writing recipes.

See, that was part of the argument from the "not a brewer" people. Apparently there are beer recipe software packages that can write decent beer recipes. I think one of them was Beer Tools.

I have not personally brewed anything spat out by a ones and zeros personality, but some swear it works.

Anyone have experience with this, or one similar?

 

[a10t2]

Well, for my thesis I wrote a fuzzy logic program that would evaluate different recipes and weight them according to their competition scores, then combine them to incrementally approach a "perfect" recipe. But that still isn't a computer writing a recipe. You'd need to develop a way for the computer to taste the results in order to remove humans from the loop.

I use Beer Tools (Pro) for my recipes. It's a brewing utility like ProMash or Qbrew or whatever. Definitely not any sort of recipe-writing expert system. I guess someone could object to a brewer using software to calculate IBU, color, etc. rather than working it out with a pencil and paper. I certainly don't think that makes him less of a brewer, any more than it would make someone who uses TurboTax less of a taxpayer.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Well, for my thesis I wrote a fuzzy logic program that would evaluate different recipes and weight them according to their competition scores, then combine them to incrementally approach a "perfect" recipe. But that still isn't a computer writing a recipe. You'd need to develop a way for the computer to taste the results in order to remove humans from the loop.

I use Beer Tools (Pro) for my recipes. It's a brewing utility like ProMash or Qbrew or whatever. Definitely not any sort of recipe-writing expert system. I guess someone could object to a brewer using software to calculate IBU, color, etc. rather than working it out with a pencil and paper. I certainly don't think that makes him less of a brewer, any more than it would make someone who uses TurboTax less of a taxpayer.

Agreed. I choose not to use recipe calculators, but that's personal preference, nothing more or less. Using tools does not deduct from the fact that somebody taking grains, water, hops, and yeast and turning into beer is a brewer.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Sounds like some people are suffering from gear envy.