Staining Issues.

[TheKeg81]

I began staining this past weekend and ran into a problem. See the pictures below.


None of my test pieces [scrap from same board] came out with that issue. After seeing this, I watched/read about staining everywhere I could find on the net. I couldn't find where I did anything obviously wrong. Though I did see a few places that seemed to prefer applying the stain in small batches over coating the entire surface and then wiping.

Background information
Materials
*Coffin and Top - cabinet grade pine plywood
*Borders - premium pine 1X4's.
*Minwax Pre-stain Wood Conditioner - applied with foam brush
*Minwax Red Mahogany Stain - applied with foam brush

Can I fix the streaking with another coat of stain?
Would I be better off with a roller to apply the stain on the base?
Any tips on staining before I begin the work of staining the base of my keezer?

Thanks for any help.

 

[pannell77]

I just use an old cloth/t-shirt to apply my stain with and then another clean one to wipe it off a few minutes later.

 

[raouliii]

When staining, I've always applied it very wet, let it soak, and then wiped off everything that could be. You only want the stain that has soaked into the wood to remain. And always wipe with the grain. It's difficult to tell from the photos but the streaking may be from residual stain that MAY be re-dissolved with a solvent.

If the above is how it was applied, it's also possible that the streaking is the result of sanding across the grain, which should never be done.

FWIW, conditioners tend to seal up the wood pores a bit. This is usually necessary on pine because the growth rings tend to have very different absorption rates. The drawback is that the stain doesn't soak in as much in general and you end up with a lighter color. The tendency is then to leave too much stain on top of the wood in an effort to keep it darker.

Good luck neighbor.

 

[TheKeg81]

I just use an old cloth/t-shirt to apply my stain with and then another clean one to wipe it off a few minutes later.

That's the method I plan on trying next. I'm thinking that it will be better for the keezer base since I have assembled it (mostly) and there is mostly vertical panels to stain. The other alternative is to try a roller, but old t-shirts are in abundance for me. The GF will love to see them go and I will be justified in keeping them now that I have a use for them. I just hate to throw things away when I know they can/could be used.

When staining, .....
....
Good luck neighbor.

Yeah, I did go heavy/wet on the stain, but with the cooler [read as less humid] weather here this past weekend I think that it may have dried quicker than anticipated. I didn't have that nice sheen that I had when doing the test pieces. I wiped all I could but the darker swaths didn't want to lighten up any. The pictures should be clickable (on PC at least) and open up larger. The first and third pictures show the dark streaks best. I'm thinking I may put a little paint thinner onto a cloth and dab at the streaks to see if I can't remove some of the stain. If that doesn't work I'll probably just sand and re-coat those areas.

My sanding was done with the grain except that I didn't pick up the sander when sliding it over for the next pass down the grain. I don't think that'd affect it that much, do you? Oh well, I'll give it another go later this week or weekend and see if I can get the finish a little smoother.

Another question for everyone. If I apply poly now, is it okay to apply acrylic later, or would I need to sand it back down to the wood?

 

[TheKeg81]

Update:

I sanded and re-applied stain, this time using one of those terry cloth covered sponges. I like that MUCH more than the foam brush, and it is quicker. The steaks/stripes seemed to even out and almost disappear upon applying the second coat. I went heavier on the stain in the areas between the streaks.

Well, I sanded this morning, getting the surface ready for polyurethane and man did it look like crap. I could see where my sander had been as it left behind circular marks in the stain. That was the first and only time I've had it look like that after sanding. I went ahead and applied the poly anyways and the sander marks disappeared, but the streaked areas seemed to pop out again. They are not as bad as the initial coat, but still noticeable. Oh well, the room I will have it isn't too brightly lit, so hopefully they won't show up much. I guess I could claim it is reclaimed wood and I left it like that for the character!

I will post pictures once the poly is dry and I'm not afraid of bumping it.

 

[Mojzis]

You live and learn I guess. A rag is the way to go, no need to wipe anything off, just dip one end into the can and smear onto your surface. And use latex gloves. I've been staining for a quite some time and that stuff is a pita to get out without reaking like gasoline.

Also FWIW I would poly 3-ish times. Usually I use a very fine sand paper after the first coat to remove the bumps, drops, etc. Then the next coats come out smoother, thicker and with more shine.

 

[Bobby_M]

That tends to happen when the sanding is rushed to too fine a grit too fast. I'm not a master woodworker by any means but I've been bitten by the same problem.

 

[lstrowge]

Update:

Well, I sanded this morning, getting the surface ready for polyurethane and man did it look like crap. I could see where my sander had been as it left behind circular marks in the stain. That was the first and only time I've had it look like that after sanding. I went ahead and applied the poly anyways and the sander marks disappeared, but the streaked areas seemed to pop out again. They are not as bad as the initial coat, but still noticeable. Oh well, the room I will have it isn't too brightly lit, so hopefully they won't show up much. I guess I could claim it is reclaimed wood and I left it like that for the character!

I will post pictures once the poly is dry and I'm not afraid of bumping it.

Did you sand it after the stain dried before the first coat of Poly? If so that would be why you saw the sanding marks. Once the stain dried you should apply a light first coat of poly and then lighty sand that after it dries ( i have always done that step by hand so it doesn't go to deep) that way you just smooth out the poly and leave the stain untouched. After that the coats of poly would get smoother and you'l see more depth.

You could possibly resand the piece and restain/re-poly but it takes a light touch otherwise you'll go right through the veneer layer of the plywood.

No worries though, the beer still pours good right?

 

[liquiditynerd]

Wish I would've caught this thread sooner. Pine is considerably soft which gives you two folded problem, sanding and stain saturation. The aforementioned reqs of staining with the grain with a rag is spot on. You have to realize the wood is going to be more absorbant on the spring growth (lighter) than the summer (grain). Anyway I'm sure your figured that out. Once you add the stain it becomes even softer, which is why the poly after is a great suggestion.

The comment on the " circles"- quarter sheet sander right? 100 grit? Just guessing, you can get away with 120 or even 150 with pine before you start into 200 or 220. This doesn't dig into the fiber as much. My quarter sheet sander does this as well sometimes so I use it more for corners, the random orbital really Lea e's a nice surface free of those circles made from larger grit in the paper.

 

[TheKeg81]

And use latex gloves. I've been staining for a quite some time and that stuff is a pita to get out without reaking like gasoline.

Also FWIW I would poly 3-ish times. Usually I use a very fine sand paper after the first coat to remove the bumps, drops, etc. Then the next coats come out smoother, thicker and with more shine.

Yeah, I had some latex gloves I was using. I must have been more aggressive trying to get into the corners on the first coat as I tore about 6 of them and then only used 1 for the second coat. I'm hoping to get 3 coats of poly on, but I'm on a time constraint. I have friends coming into town for the Zapp's Beerfest and I want to have it mostly done and pouring before they get here on Friday evening.

That tends to happen when the sanding is rushed to too fine a grit too fast. I'm not a master woodworker by any means but I've been bitten by the same problem.

That's probably what happened to me then. I hadn't touched the plywood with anything until I was ready to start staining. I had 80 grit sand paper and some 220 grit. I was scared of the 80 so I went with the 220. I sanded the plywood a fair bit, wiping it down and running my hand over the surface checking for rough spots.

Did you sand it after the stain dried before the first coat of Poly? If so that would be why you saw the sanding marks.

Yeah I did so only because of the instructions on the can of poly.

Once the stain dried you should apply a light first coat of poly and then lighty sand that after it dries ( i have always done that step by hand so it doesn't go to deep) that way you just smooth out the poly and leave the stain untouched. After that the coats of poly would get smoother and you'l see more depth.

I will use this method on the remaining pieces that I still must coat, provided the staining still matches between the two.

You could possibly resand the piece and restain/re-poly but it takes a light touch otherwise you'll go right through the veneer layer of the plywood.

This was a learning experience, so I'm not worried about it enough to warrant re-sanding and re-finishing. I have been exercising caution not to sand one place too heavily and using 220 grit paper to avoid eating through the top layer of veneer.

No worries though, the beer still pours good right?

It did before I broke it all down to make it presentable.

Wish I would've caught this thread sooner. Pine is considerably soft which gives you two folded problem, sanding and stain saturation. The aforementioned reqs of staining with the grain with a rag is spot on. You have to realize the wood is going to be more absorbant on the spring growth (lighter) than the summer (grain). Anyway I'm sure your figured that out. Once you add the stain it becomes even softer, which is why the poly after is a great suggestion.

Yeah, I had read up on it before starting and that's why I went with the pre-stain conditioner and less aggressive sand papers.

The comment on the " circles"- quarter sheet sander right? 100 grit? Just guessing, you can get away with 120 or even 150 with pine before you start into 200 or 220. This doesn't dig into the fiber as much. My quarter sheet sander does this as well sometimes so I use it more for corners, the random orbital really Lea e's a nice surface free of those circles made from larger grit in the paper.

Actually, I have this (or something close to it) and have been hand sanding the corners/edges. Up until earlier today I hadn't been having those problems with the sander leaving marks. It makes me nervous of what it might do with the poly. Do you (or anyone paying attention here) think I should go with a finer grit between coats of poly?

 

[liquiditynerd]

That's a good sander. If your going high luster you can use one of those scotch Brite pads. I like the white ones because the green can get left behind. If I go high luster I use that with a little water, dry or wipe with a lint free cloth and thinner, I have been using acetone because it evaporates fast.

Since you already have the 220 you can just scuff sand it by hand. Your trying to knock any dust/bubbles down.

I started a "projects" thread for random stuff if you want to see how my last piece came out.

 

[lstrowge]

. Do you (or anyone paying attention here) think I should go with a finer grit between coats of poly?

I normally use 220 lightly between coats of poly just to knock of the nibs and rough up the surface. Polyurethane needs something to grip to each coat so roughing it takes care of that. It'll flood the scratched up areas so you shouldn't see any sanding marks when it dries. The key is light sanding, light coats. Better to go light with a 3 0r 4 coats than heavy with a couple that you'll end up sanding out eventually anyway.

I do sometimes hit the last sanding with 320 but that's only if I'm working on things I really want the wood to pop on.

 

[liquiditynerd]

One other thing I thought while sanding today, when you start getting to the finer grits, or even when you're still at a rough grit, it may benefit you to sand a piece of scrap just a bit to get the paper a little evened out. I don't do it often but when I'm doing something really serious no fresh sandpaper, just a bit used.

 

[TheKeg81]

One other thing I thought while sanding today, when you start getting to the finer grits, or even when you're still at a rough grit, it may benefit you to sand a piece of scrap just a bit to get the paper a little evened out. I don't do it often but when I'm doing something really serious no fresh sandpaper, just a bit used.

I actually did that Thursday before sanding the poly and applying my second coat. The sand paper gets clogged up pretty quick sometimes and mostly around the edges. Not sure why the edges more so than the other portions.

Here is the streaking I talked about.


In the right light/angle it looks passable, can't see the runs/drips.


Thanks to everyone replying here. My future projects will definitely look worlds better!

 

[Mojzis]

Looks good

 

[liquiditynerd]

Good job man. Talk about the beer for two pints before you get to the build, they'll never notice! Just messing, really, good job.