Imho this beer is cloned, pumpkin pie extract is their secret. Tasted it side by side. Good job bulldogbrewer!
So which recipe did you use to alter it to the pumpkin pie extract?
Imho this beer is cloned, pumpkin pie extract is their secret. Tasted it side by side. Good job bulldogbrewer!
Imho this beer is cloned, pumpkin pie extract is their secret. Tasted it side by side. Good job bulldogbrewer!
There is an artificial flavor to pumpking I have always thought it contained an extractinsanim8er said:I highly doubt it. I doubt they use any type of flavoring extract, or it would show on the label. The flavor profile is buttered rum. They're probably using Ringwood to get diacetyl, filtering the yeat then getting rum flavors from rum addition, using rum to extract their spices, and/or they're using a lot of brown sugar to get that rum flavor. And it's super heavy in nutmeg. Look at rouge hazelnut brown nectar. Look at the shocktop honeycrisp apple wheat. They absolutely use flavor additives, and its on the label.
I highly doubt it. I doubt they use any type of flavoring extract, or it would show on the label.
The flavor profile is buttered rum. They're probably using Ringwood to get diacetyl, filtering the yeat then getting rum flavors from rum addition, using rum to extract their spices, and/or they're using a lot of brown sugar to get that rum flavor. And it's super heavy in nutmeg.
Look at rouge hazelnut brown nectar. Look at the shocktop honeycrisp apple wheat. They absolutely use flavor additives, and its on the label.
insanim8er said:Well if they're using extract, they're breaking the labeling laws.
I think the artificial flavoring being detected is their spice profile extracted with rum. The dominate flavor being nutmeg.
.
By your argument, wouldn't rum then be on the label?
There is pumpkin pie extract in pumpking, dont believe me. I am using it in gdlaws recipe with great results and my local brewery is now using it. If you knew their exact grain bill/ mash schedule/ hop amounts/ yeast you could make an exact clone
I'm making a second attempt brewing this up this weekend. Crashed and burned on the first one. Stuck sparge with the pumpkin in the mash. I'm throwing it in the boil late this time.
In regards to those hwo have used the extract. Can you provide the amount used in something other than drops? Are we talking a teaspoon, tablespoon....for a 5 gallon batch? I'm trying to limit the adding and mixing as it will make the beer cloudy once in the keg. Thanks for all the help!
Southern Tier adds it to the mash. Confirmed.
For those of you that used the pumpkin pie extract, are you using any dry spices at all...in the boil or secondary?
I followed gdlaws recipe (spices in the boil) and i added pumpkin pie extract at bottling to taste. The extract is potent (obviously) I used the natural extract. I made another low gravity ale a couple days ago, im not going to use any spices at all, just the extract at kegging. I'm interested to see how it will come out
formula2fast said:In terms of labeling laws, I do not beleive alcohol has to follow the same standards as food. In fact, very few beers give the ingredients and I don't know many that give all of them..
This. Most beers I have consumed do not list the ingredients anywhere on their label or packaging. I would be willing to bet money Pumpking has extract(s) in it
Southern Tier uses flavoring extracts in few of their beers. Pumpking and Creme Bruele are two off the top of my head that I know they do..
I'd be willing to take your money.
There's a list of "legal" additives beer companies can use in their beer and not list on their labels.
If flavor aids are added through artificial or natural means, it HAS to be on the label. They don't have to list their recipe, but they do have to inform the consumer of whats in their beverage. Labeling laws are convoluted, but all consumable products have to follow the same laws. Even consumable products manufactured over seas and sold to the US have to follow our labeling laws (this does goes for more than just consumable products).
Go look at all the labels of beers 100% proven to use flavor aids. Like I said, rouge hazelnut brown nectar or shocktop apple wheat. Look up wild blue blueberry lager. All the labels state the use of natural or artificial flavors.
Its flavors made from a laboratory, such as your pumpkin pie, graham cracker or butter nut extracts that has to be on the label.
If I were to make almond extract from a peach pitch, then it would have to be on the label as natural flavor
If I were to make almond extract from banana and vinegar (to get the same compound found in the peach pit) then it would have to be added to the label as artificial flavor.
Here's a link to the FDA
It says, "(c) a declaration of added flavor, such as any spices, natural flavors, or artificial flavors, as specified in 21 CFR 101.22(h);"
Decleration means announcement FYI
You're barking up the wrong tree trying to clone this beer. That's why it's been unsuccessful for several years.
I've tasted both, they're both very similar.Chug said:Dammit. I ordered the extract from silver cloud, but just realized it was the imitation, not the natural. It still says in the description it can be used in beer so hoping I'm alright.
I've tasted both, they're both very similar.
I just racked my attempt at this into the secondary. The nose if FANTASTIC it smells exactly the way i want it to taste. The taste however is rather alcoholey and honestly not that great. I'm hoping it settles down in the secondary and and during the aging.
insanim8er said:I also emailed the FDA to get an answer about the label laws to get a definitive answer. I haven't heard back and every time I call they're closed.
I agree 100% with this post. There are many breweries who are very forthcoming about ingredients and openly share recipes with us hombrewers but Southern Tier isnt one of them. Regardless of what they claim in an email I taste things that arent natural in Pumking.ErieShores said:Southern Tier is like the Willy Wonka of brewing. Everyone wants to know what goes on inside. I still maintain that there is something added in addition to spices.
I agree 100% with this post. There are many breweries who are very forthcoming about ingredients and openly share recipes with us hombrewers but Southern Tier isnt one of them. Regardless of what they claim in an email I taste things that arent natural in Pumking.
I agree 100% with this post. There are many breweries who are very forthcoming about ingredients and openly share recipes with us hombrewers but Southern Tier isnt one of them. Regardless of what they claim in an email I taste things that arent natural in Pumking.
I feel the same way. There's no way we're tasting just malt, yeast, and spices while drinking Pumking. They're using an extract, probably proprietary. As far as label laws go, you can't tell me with a straight face they're not using artificial flavoring in creme brûlée as well.
Well I would say it's brewed with vanilla bean as the lable indicates since it doesn't say made with natural vanilla flavor. But you can only beat a dead cat for so long. I've given plenty of proof to back my side. All I get in reply is, "I taste." Well good luck on several more years of cloning attempts with extracts.
And many good years to your "cloning" attempts with natural ingredients...By the way, I got the silver estates pumpkin pie extract in the mail the other day. I currently have the imperial pumpkin pie ale recipe here from HBT on tap with some slight adjustments (It came in at 9.4% ABV and I used Maris otter and added some flaked oats). Excellent pumpkin beer. So I decided to pull a pint and add a couple drops of extract to it. Not much going on. Couple more drops, more aroma from the extract but no dice. It is not Pumking.
Maybe it'd be better to add it to a base pumpkin beer without spices added but as of right now it doesn't remind of anything close to Pumking. But I still don't believe they don't use a proprietary extract of some sort to achieve that Pumking flavor. Just my opinion man, thanks for your contribution.
I don't even think pumking is all that great. I think creating a better pumpkin ale is possible with 100% certainty of no extracts used. That's what I'm putting my time into.
If you haven't had schlafly, try it. I got it in a beer trade, and it's awesome. Also the good gourd from cigar city. Those are the pumpkins I want to emulate. I just wanted to add some insight on this clone because I honestly think extract is the wrong approach. But to each their own.
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