Sour beer need some feed back

[klowneyy]

I am going to be making a flander in the next couple of days.

Recipe:
6lbs LME-Pilsen
0.75 Belgian cara 45L
0.75 special-B
0.125 Belgian de-bittered black
1 oz tradition hops
Wyeast roselare ale blend.

O.g. 1.042
F.g. 1.008
Alc 4.38%

Im wanting to up the alcohol content what would be the best way. I was thinking about.l adding 2 lbs Wheat LME. Would make the og 1.067 with a fg of 1.013 so around 7.5%. Would I be ok to do that? Also was thinking about fermenting in secondary with puree cherries as well.

Can I please get some feed back.

Thanks

 

[dantheman13]

I'd leave the hops out of the recipe. Roeselare is famous for not being very sour, and the bacteria needs all the help it can get if that is what you are looking for. Using DME to up the abv shouldn't be an issue at all, but don't go too high above 1.060 with one pack of Roeselare as you might get a poor Sacch ferment. Adding cherry puree in secondary is a great idea. Good luck!

 

[klowneyy]

I also have a packet of wyeast lambic blend 3278. Ive been debating if I want to try and use that yeast strain or mixing both together. I am somewhat new to brewing and love sours!

 

[dantheman13]

I also have a packet of wyeast lambic blend 3278. Ive been debating if I want to try and use that yeast strain or mixing both together. I am somewhat new to brewing and love sours!

Mixing cultures is usually a good way to go!

 

[klowneyy]

Awesome! So I am going to keep it the higher o.g. than at 1.067 and use both yeasts? For the cherry puree I was going to buy a couple cans of depitted cherries boil in hot water to pasturized it than puree it with a subversion blender and add in secondary

 

[klowneyy]

Also should I still leave the hops out it I am going to be using both yeast packets? Thank you for all the help!

 

[CA_Mouse]

My first sour was 50% Wheat DME and 50% Light DME. I added 1# of Turbinado Sugar at 5 mins left to take it a bit higher. I did a regular ale ferment before transferring it and feeding it bugs. If you want a lactic sour, then add some lactobacillus and feed it some Lactose. Roeselare won't give you much in the way of sourness, but does give a bright tartness and funk.

 

[dantheman13]

Awesome! So I am going to keep it the higher o.g. than at 1.067 and use both yeasts? For the cherry puree I was going to buy a couple cans of depitted cherries boil in hot water to pasturized it than puree it with a subversion blender and add in secondary

Yep, sounds like a plan. I wouldn't bother boiling the puree. Just pitch it all in there. The acidity should take care of any bad things in there. I never pasteurize fruit or oak for sours. It's one of the benefits of making sours!

 

[dantheman13]

Also should I still leave the hops out it I am going to be using both yeast packets? Thank you for all the help!

Yeah, give the bacteria all the edge that you can. If it turns out too acidic, it is easy to brew a Brett/Sacch beer to blend back into it.

 

[klowneyy]

How would you go about feeding it bugs?

 

[dantheman13]

How would you go about feeding it bugs?

You mean from commercial bottle dregs? Ad them as early as possible. Make a starter for them if you feel like making sure there is something viable.

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Commercial_Sour_Beer_Inoculation

 

[CA_Mouse]

Also should I still leave the hops out it I am going to be using both yeast packets? Thank you for all the help!

Traditionally you still want hops, but something very low AA. I usually use 1/4 to 1/2 of an ounce in the low 3% range.

 

[klowneyy]

Yeah, give the bacteria all the edge that you can. If it turns out too acidic, it is easy to brew a Brett/Sacch beer to blend back into it.

I am getting more and more excited for this beer! Thank you so much

 

[CA_Mouse]

How would you go about feeding it bugs?

All of the "souring" yeasts aren't really yeast at all, they are bacteria... AKA 'Bugs'.

 

[klowneyy]

Thank you so much for all the info. I am getting more and more excited for this beer!

 

[CA_Mouse]

Thank you so much for all the info. I am getting more and more excited for this beer!

Just remember that patience is the name of the game with sours. As you can see in my sig, my current sours have been going for a while, November and December of 2013 was when I brewed them. They are both a little tart and funky and I'll be feeding both a dose of Lactose within the month to sour them up for the end of this year. :rockin:

 

[klowneyy]

Ok so from what ive gathered from your guys help here is what I am going to try:

My recipe that im thinking about using is:
6lbs pilsen malt syrup
4lbs wheat malt syrup
0.75lbs Belgian cara 45L
0.75lbs special B
0.125lbs de-bittered black
1oz tradition hops
Wyeast 3763 roselare & wyeast lambic 3278
O.g. 1.067 f.g. 1.013 alcohol 7.05%
I was going to steep for 30mins boil 60 mins with hops. Than after 2 weeks move to secondary add cherry puree and let ferment for 6 months to a year maybe longer

 

[klowneyy]

Without hops

 

[dantheman13]

Just remember that patience is the name of the game with sours. As you can see in my sig, my current sours have been going for a while, November and December of 2013 was when I brewed them. They are both a little tart and funky and I'll be feeding both a dose of Lactose within the month to sour them up for the end of this year. :rockin:

I would use DME instead of lactose unless you know for sure your Lactobacillus sp. can ferment lactose. Not all species can, nor can Pediococcus damnosus.

 

[CA_Mouse]

I would use DME instead of lactose unless you know for sure your Lactobacillus sp. can ferment lactose. Not all species can, nor can Pediococcus damnosus.

You are absolutely correct and that is a very important factor.

This is the same strain that I've been using since 2012, so I know they can eat the Lactose and produce the lactic acid that I'm looking for.

 

[sweetcell]

Would make the og 1.067 with a fg of 1.013 so around 7.5%.

what makes you think this will stop at 1.013? with the brett and bugs in there, i would expect it to go lower.

 

[klowneyy]

Yeah I was talking to a couple people about that. I'm expecting to go a lot lower. Somone was staying ill most likey end at around 1.003

 

[klowneyy]

Ok guys I have updated my recipe with some help of much feed back my recipe is:

O.G 1067
6lbs pilsen malt syrup
4lbs wheat malt syrup
0.75lbs Belgian cara 45L
0.75lbs Special-B
0.125 De-bittered black
1/2 oz Tradition hops
Wyeast Lambic blend 3278 plus sour beer dregs
2 and 1/2. 16oz cans of organic cherry juice.

Going to ferment in primary for 4-5 months move to secondary add organic cherry juice and ferment for another 2-3 months

 

[sweetcell]

4-5 months is short for primary. I would double that.

 

[klowneyy]

Thanks will do