Some newbie questions - Variance in LHBS' grains

[SLRSLY]

Hello there,

I have brewed a few one gallon batches with success so I've slowly gathered up some other goods and am now making 5 gallon batches and kegging.

I use a rectangular cooler with a braided mesh tube.

After drastically missing my OG (that question coming) I went to a different LHBS to get the exact ingredients to try again. Where I live I have one VERY close store that is not very helpful at all and I have one that is an hour away and they are fantastic! I usually take the hour drive but in this case of missing my OG and really wanting this beer for my move in a month I decided to give the closer store another shot.

Well I pitched the yeast into the first batch (low OG) anyway figuring I would try to figure out the problem while it fermented. It's looking like I will have a very slight alcohol content. It's fermenting now, active activity on a blow off.

I brewed what was supposed to be the exact same batch but with ingredients from the other, closer LHBS. It was a completely different color (MUCH darker), did not smell the same, actually smelled kinda nasty in comparison. It has no activity. It's only two days in so I haven't taken a reading aside from OG. Although I did get to a closer OG to what the recipe calls for.

My questions:
Sparging - I have read that you should NOT mix the grain bed and that it should be left undisturbed. So I have been lightly sprinkling the sparge water through a stainless strainer. But while I was boiling the second batch I came across a long John Palmer video where he mixes the sparge water quite vigorously. Is there one way to do this? It seems to me that mixing would drastically release more sugars. Am I missing my OG due to not mixing?
LHBS - Should their grains vary this much or did someone make a mistake? I handed them both the same recipe (simple recipe, I might add) but seemed like I ended up with two totally different worts.

Thanks for any help. I'm really curious to see what you guys say about mixing vs not disturbing the grain bed.

 

[stratslinger]

Well, you've got a couple questions there, so I'll try to tackle them one at a time:

On the mixing when sparging: that depends on your sparging method. If you're batch sparging (which I'm assuming you are, since you've got a braided mesh tube rather than a false bottom or a manifold), then yes, you should be mixing when you add your sparge water, then vorlaufing before you run off. If you're fly sparging, then you should not be mixing - and you should also be looking into a manifold for that cooler instead of a braided mesh tube post-haste!

On the variance of grains - there are a couple things that could be at play here. The most common is the quality of the crush, and this will most directly impact your OG. If LHBS #1 has a really poor crush, and LHBS #2 has a better crush, then you're going to extract much more sugars from LHBS #2's grain - even without mixing when sparging. That'll also lead to a darker color, etc. Another variance could be if the staff at either LHBS are making substitutions and not telling you - that'll clearly lead to differences in your finished product, and that's somewhat out of your control.

If you're going to go back to LHBS #1, best bet is to ask them (politely!) to identify if they're making any grain substitutions and ask them (again, politely!) to run the grain through their mill twice - most LHBS's don't have a problem doing this. And do your own due diligence and adjust your own process regarding your sparging. And then see what impact those things have on your brew. If it's still no good, don't go back to that LHBS again.

 

[BrewerinBR]

My questions:
Sparging - I have read that you should NOT mix the grain bed and that it should be left undisturbed. So I have been lightly sprinkling the sparge water through a stainless strainer. But while I was boiling the second batch I came across a long John Palmer video where he mixes the sparge water quite vigorously. Is there one way to do this? It seems to me that mixing would drastically release more sugars.

If you batch sparge (as I do) then stirring it is required to get grain mixed into the sparge water and raise the temperature completely and get everything mixed. Not certain about using a recirculation system where the sparge water is recirculated as I have never seen that done. As for disturbing the grain bed again in a batch sparge just wait 10 minutes after stirring it for it to settle (I wait 20 minutes).

LHBS - Should their grains vary this much or did someone make a mistake? I handed them both the same recipe (simple recipe, I might add) but seemed like I ended up with two totally different worts.

I would say that would be the age of the ingredients. The closer store may not be as busy and does not turn their stock as often and you got older stock. IMHO

 

[dawgmatic]

Well, the way you were sparging was sort of a ghetto version of fly sparging, which I actually do occasionally when I'm taking my time. Palmer's video was most likely an example of batch sparging, which is pretty easy and a good way to start out. That's where you add all the sparge water at once, after the tun has been drained of course, and you sir it up for awhile. Then leave it to sit 5-10 minutes, and then vorlauf and drain again. The only time I ever stirred while ghetto fly sparging was because the water was refusing to drain past the top layer of grain so I lightly stirred the top so I could continue sparging.

Assuming you were using the same ingredients and getting very different results, and that youre crushing the grains at the lhbs and not your house. The differences could be that the grain mill at the farther away brew store is set at too wide a setting and that you didn't get a good enough crush to get decent conversion of the sugars, thereby resulting in low efficiency

 

[SLRSLY]

Thanks for all the replies!!
I plan to go back to the further (LHBS2) store and try the same recipe again while sparging/vorlaufing correctly. I'll see if that brings up my OG a little. I'll take a picture of the crush for you all since I really wouldn't know one way or another.

 

[SLRSLY]

Going from grain to fermenter always seems to take much longer than I plan. Hah.
Anyway, I ended up with an OG of 1.045 (temp corrected) and a target of 1.050 so I'm happy happy happy [/Phil]

So I thank you for all your help and surely this thread will be burnt into my memory.
I do have a picture of the crush and will post tomorrow if anyone wants to see. In the meantime here is a picture of my cherry, berry wheat.

By the way, this beer was not awesome a week ago. Tonight I would proudly share it with friends. Crazy what an extra week will do.

 

[stratslinger]

Alright - well, being off by .05 isn't all that far. If that's just one of the batches where you didn't stir your grainbed when sparging, that might just get you most of the way there.

And absolutely, with a lot of beers, a week can make a ton of difference! The first pumpkin ale I made, when I first tapped it, it had a weird vegetal funk going on. A week later, it was completely gone and it was a very pleasant, really nice beer. The next year, I made it a point to age it a week longer, and it was great from day 1.

 

[SLRSLY]

I'm much happier about the .05 off than I was before. I came up with 1.030 on my first batch and threw it away.

And I'm very much looking forward to having some samples tonight to see how things are aging. I have an APA that should be just about ready