Slow sparge....help !

[matc]

Okay so i've had the same setup for quite a while now and everything's going fine except sparging.

I use a ss braid, (the larger one), about 6" long. Ipthe braid slids on a copper pipe that is cut in half lengthwise. I also added a copper spring under the braid. All this is to avoid collapsing the braid.

Anyway so when i batch sparge, the first time i empty the tun with the pump, everything's fine. But as soon as i sparge, i always get this slow trickle. Today it took me 30 minutes to empty it (i use a double batch sparge).

I wet condition my malt, my mill is set at 0.025 inch and only use 100% malt bills. What could cause this ? I tried blowing in the hose, scraping the braid with my spoon etc but nothing improved.

I always fully open the valve on the tun but i slow down the flow immediately after the pump with a valve. Again, it's only the sparge that is slow, the first running is typically pretty quick.

Any ideas ? I might loosen my mill a bit ir stop conditioning my malt altogether.

 

[Bobby_M]

You're losing half the surface area clamping over the copper tubing. You can either stick with just the copper spiral and not the tube or wrap the copper coil OVER the copper tubing so that it spaces the braid away for full flow.

 

[matc]

Ok will try that ! Anything else ? What do you think of my mill setting ? Since i began malt conditioning, i also tightened my gap setting

 

[Bobby_M]

I think you'll be fine once you free up the open area of the braid.

 

[matc]

Yeah I removed it today and realized how much more surface area I got. Will report my results in a couple of days. I plan to brew an ipa pretty soon

 

[matc]

ok so I hit the bottom today....

I did as what Bobby suggested (just using ss braid with a small spring inside). I was doing as usual, 1.25 qt/lbs and right after mashing this time, nothing came out !!! I tried many many times to prime my pump, no luck. I added some more water to the mash to dilute everything, stirred a lot, blew in my hose etc. Even without using the pump, it just would not flow.

After cursing for 30 minutes, I dumped the whole batch in the toilet. I'm pissed, I spent so much time and money on my brewery, why can't it just work like everybody's setup ?

That was probably my tenth batch with my pump and except for today, I've always had issues with super slow sparge runoff. Before that, I've tried using a copper manifold but I still got the same problem. Same thing with the braid, which is btw about 6" long.

My mill is set a 0;025 and I malt condition my malt. I'm thinking about opening my mill to 0.039 and stop conditioning the malt. Anything else I could try ?

 

[blizz81]

I would say there's no reason to not condition your malt re: your issue, except maybe for saving time. Maybe back off the crush a tad and / or try using rice hulls? If your setup is conducive to using a false bottom, maybe try one? Though I would think you should be able to get going on your setup and / or just a slotted manifold which it sounds like you've tried as well.

 

[Homercidal]

I can't think of anything that would cause JUST the sparge to flow poorly. If anything, the first runnings are usually the most difficult.

I use a drilled copper manifold and I rarely see any issue, and then only during the sparge when the grain bed has had a chance to get covered by the fine particles and make a layer of wort on top of the grain. A few small pokes with a spoon lets it run down easily.

If you are stirring slightly, it shouldn't be doing that (And you would see a scum of that stuff on top of the grain.)

 

[matc]

well my fisrt post was concerning the sparge only. But today, I got a stuck mash right when I wanted to drain the mash tun before adding the sparge water. I'm lost and don't know what to do. I don't want to risk another batch before figuring this out

 

[matc]

what about using a false bottom ? Are those any better at avoiding a stuck mash than other setups ?

 

[Bobby_M]

Maybe a silly question, but are you SURE you have a stainless braid or did you go to Home Depot and mistakenly get their "stainless look" braid that is actually grey colored plastic? A picture might help.

 

[rekoob]

Not sure I would have tossed the whole thing, I would have started scooping out into a bucket or something so I could get to the problem area and fix it.

Like Bobby said, maybe some pics of your set up would help us help you.

Try not to freak here, we have all had issues with something along the way and sometimes they still pop up.

You're using a pump, so good flow from your MLT is needed. after making changes you should go through the process with just water, might not sound like it would show you anything but if your manifold isn't allowing enough output you might not be getting enough to the pump. does the MLT drain the same (with water) with and without the SS braid installed?

 

[matc]

there are no stupid questions ! Here's the culprit. It's ss. I remembre poking a few wires in my skin when I removed the inner tubing.

 

[matc]

For the moment, I adjusted my mill to 0.039" and I might go back to a manifold. As for malt conditioning, I don't think it could me my problem as it keeps the kennels for a better filtration.

Rekoob, yes after dumping the grains, I filled the tun with water to check if everything was ok. Everything worked fine and even without plugging my hoses, I had a good flow out of the tun. I had no problem either with priming the pump when using only water

When using the pump, I fully open the valve on the tun and control the rate with the valve right after the pump.

Maybe my mill was too tight at 0.025 ?

 

[lush]

For the moment, I adjusted my mill to 0.039" and I might go back to a manifold. As for malt conditioning, I don't think it could me my problem as it keeps the kennels for a better filtration.

Rekoob, yes after dumping the grains, I filled the tun with water to check if everything was ok. Everything worked fine and even without plugging my hoses, I had a good flow out of the tun. I had no problem either with priming the pump when using only water

When using the pump, I fully open the valve on the tun and control the rate with the valve right after the pump.

Maybe my mill was too tight at 0.025 ?

I think your mill was set too tight. How does the crush look? Is it super fine by chance?

 

[matc]

Well I don't have any picture of the grain milled at 0.025" but since I wet conditioned my malt, I had whole intact kennels and lots of small white particles

 

[estricklin]

If I had to take a blind guess, I would say your draining/sparging too fast. The world's best lautering system would still have trouble with grain compaction due to sparging too fast. Even if it isn't your problem, why not eliminate it from the realm of possibility by slowing the sparge way down, maybe not even use the pump if gravity allows given your current system.

I always advocate having a good false bottom. Even if you want to batch sparge; and there's nothing wrong with that, spend a few bucks and buy or make yourself a good false bottom. My favorite is the aluminum pizza pan, but you can easily make a copper or pvc manifold, or even buy a stainless domed false bottom. You won't regret doing it I promise.

Your crush could be a little too fine still, though I wouldn't put my money on that.

Don't get frustrated and give up, homebrewing is about adapting and overcoming, I promise your not the only one that's had problems. I could fill a book up of the things I've done wrong, and the times I were so pissed I never wanted to brew again. But, I cowboyed up and now I'm at a place where I don't have too many problems anymore, I brew to drink and drink to brew!

 

[Bobby_M]

I think compaction is definitely the issue now that I realize you have a pump. These braid and bazooka tube systems work great under gravity drain. When you go to start pumping, run it extremely slowly for the first gallon, then you can ramp it up.

 

[AnOldUR]

You might consider adding something like this to your copper tube if you think the compaction that Bobby talks about is causing your braid to collapse.

 

[matc]

I already had one of those inner tubes...same problem happened. My braid is not collapsing for sure since I have a spring inside of it. Bobby, i'm thinking compaction too but even before I start the pump, I need to prime it. This time, it did't even prime. Nothing was moving out of the tun by gravity except a few drops. A total stuck mash. Never happened to me before hence why I'm clueless. So for my next attemp, I reset the mill at 0,039 and will add some rice hulls. I built a copper manifold last night. I might try it as well

 

[matc]

Update ! I built a copper manifold and set my mill to 0,039". I brewed the same recipe today and all went well ! I believe the combination of a tight braid and very fine crush was the culprit