Seemingly successful day turns disappointing

[Burrito]

I know that asking the question "why is my efficiency so low," is considered cliche and one of the most discussed topics on hbt, but I can't help myself. I really felt like I did everything right. Nailed it. Until I took my OG reading. So if you'll be kind enough to look over my recipe/process and if you notice any glaring errors I'd appreciate it.

American Pale Ale:
9 lb pale 2 row
1 lb crystal 40L
half lb Vienna
half lb Honey

Used white labs California ale yeast. Cascade 60 min addition and some Citra last 5 min

So my set up is pretty basic. Mashed grain with 3.5 gallons h2o @ 152° in a Coleman cooler for 60 min. I stirred the grain very well to avoid dough balls. I took the temp b4 I closed up the cooler lid and nailed my target mash temp of 152°. It was a hot day and I'm confident the cooler held that temp for the duration.

I pulled the first runnings and heated another 2.25 gallons of water to 168. I batch sparged twice with that amount and temp. That's a sparge total of 4.5 gal. Each time I let the sparge water/grain sit for about 10 minutes, and I stirred well each time.

According to my beersmith app, with an efficiency setting at 72% I should've ended up with a boiling volume of 6.5 gal and an OG of 1057.

I knew something may be off when I measured boil volume and had about 7 gal instead of 6.5

I should've boiled longer at that point but still did 60 min. Cooled down pretty close to 70° and got OG reading of 1046.

Was it just too much water? And shouldn't beersmith have the correct mash and sparge water amounts?

What I was going for was a citrusy (dry hopping to come) pale ale with a bit of malt sweetness and an abv of around 6%. What I think I'll have now is less malt sweetness a bit dryer and a abv of 4 - 4.5%.

 

[Yooper]

Beersmith will do that sometimes, until you know your system and input the exact amounts in the software.

It's too late now, but one thing to do next time when you drain your first runnings, and measure them. Subtract that from your desired boil volume, and that is your sparge volume.

You can still guestimate it with Beersmith first, to make sure you have enough sparge water if needed.

What I mean is this. Say, you have 10 pounds of grain so you mash in with 15 quarts (I use 1.5 quart/pound). Or, because I hate math I'll call it 16 quarts (4 gallons). The grain should absorb about .125 gallon/pound, so I'd anticipate that 2.75 gallons would come out of the mash, more or less.

Then, I'd measure that, and if my boil volume was 6.25 gallons (as an example), I'd sparge with 3.5 gallons of water. There isn't any need to break that into two additions, as it'd be very thick and almost impossible to stir if it was so little, so I'd do that in one addition, stir well, vorlauf and drain. Then, I'd check my boil volume to make sure it was 6.25 gallons.

It's handy to have a spoon or dowel with notches cut in it at .5 gallon increments, so you can stick that in your kettle to guestimate your volume pretty quickly.

As to this batch, how much did you actually end up with in the fermenter?

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

First thing I can think of, make sure you are measuring volumes correctly in all vessels. That is an important calibration. The dowel with markings works fine, just mark it carefully.

Second, how are you measuring gravity? First AG batch I did years ago it was with a hydrometer. I forgot to take temperature into account, and my measurements came in much lower than I thought they should. Almost pitched the batch until I remembered. I'm also a little skeptical about hydrometer temperature correction, and I'd just let the sample sit there until it is room temp. REfractometers are great, btw

Aside from the measurements, I recommend a mashout step. When I batch sparge, it seems to really help my efficiency a lot. Figure out a way to raise the temperature in the mash up to 168 / 170 before collecting the first runnings. Infusions, pull off some wort and get it boiling, something along those lines. Some people will batch sparge with temps above 190, just to get the grain bed up to 168-170 as well. Check the temp of the runnings coming out.

 

[Burrito]

Thanks Yooper! I do actually have mash paddle I made with half gallon notches. One side of it measures my water pot and the other side measures my brew kettle. I just forgot to measure while draining. I guess I just assumed 6.5 gallons was going to come out. But next time I will not rely solely on beersmith's calculations. Cheers!

 

[djfriesen]

Software is really only as good as the input. There is such a variety in setups that there's no way you'd get it right on the default settings. But that's part of learning your system. As long as you know where the numbers differed from your assumptions, you can go back and dial those in better the next time.

 

[Tizzomes]

I'll kinda jump on board with BadWolfBrewing here. I also batch sparge but my sparge temperatures are on the higher side....close to boiling. I'm in no way a technical brewer but have had no problems with O.G readings. As a matter if fact it's usually on the higher side. Give it a shot brew up a cheaper beer for experimental purposes. Say a wheat or brown ale.
Cheers

 

[snowtires]

Batch sparge with hot hot water 190ish it makes all the difference for me with effiency, and of course take care of those volumes

 

[DanVSTL]

Invest in a refractometer. Easiest way to check your numbers as you go. Batch Sunday was 2 points low, but a little more volume than I needed. Started a boil, checked a couple times till I hit the # then started the clock. To me a refractometer is one of the must haves. Can check numbers after each running and adjust.

 

[IslandLizard]

The crush of the grains has most to do with your mash efficiency. Beersmith has no clue what your milled grains look like, it's calculations are based on extraction potential. If they were coarsely milled, like too many LHBS' mills are, your efficiency will be lowish. The mash water can't get to the inside of the large grains bits, and the enzymes can't do their work.

If the milling is coarse, ask them to run it trough twice, although that may still not be enough. Better yet, ask them to set the gap to 0.036"-0.040" or so. Depends on the mill. Best is to get your own mill, then you're in control.

I mill at 0.034" and have great efficiency, around 80% with Batch Sparging, like you do, 2x. Wheat and rye get crushed separately at 0.028".

 

[Burrito]

Invest in a refractometer. Easiest way to check your numbers as you go. Batch Sunday was 2 points low, but a little more volume than I needed. Started a boil, checked a couple times till I hit the # then started the clock. To me a refractometer is one of the must haves. Can check numbers after each running and adjust.

I will be purchasing one before my next batch for sure. Thanks for the input everyone

 

[Burrito]

IslandLizard: good point, I'm going to check next grain purchase to see what their mill is set at.

 

[MindenMan]

Grain crush is one of the most important things in brewing. If I buy bulk grain at my LHBS, I play hell to get to the wanted O.G. before boiling. Basically, sparging until the grain is completely rinsed of all available sugars. OTOH, the HBS that is 30 or so minutes away, must be using a different gap set crush. With their grain, I don't have to sparge, sparge, sparge, to hit my expected numbers. Beyond that, I have found if I put another gallon of water in my mash tun, it usually is 1.030 or so. I now have wort left over to make a starter with.

 

[stpug]

9 lb pale 2 row
1 lb crystal 40L
half lb Vienna
half lb Honey

According to my beersmith app, with an efficiency setting at 72% I should've ended up with a boiling volume of 6.5 gal and an OG of 1057.

I knew something may be off when I measured boil volume and had about 7 gal instead of 6.5

I should've boiled longer at that point but still did 60 min. Cooled down pretty close to 70° and got OG reading of 1046.

11 lbs grain @ 72% efficiency on a 5 gallon batch should yield about 1.057 OG. Preboil should have been around 1.042ish for 7 gallons. You overshot your preboil and didn't increase boil time then it could have resulted in about 1/2 gallon too much wort at lesser gravity, maybe around 1.047-1.048 for 6 gallons of final wort in your BK.

You're saying you got 1.046, so if your final BK volume was around 6 gallons, then you got around 70% efficiency which is darn close to your expected efficiency. Of course, accurate volume measurements will make all the difference.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

11 lbs grain @ 72% efficiency on a 5 gallon batch should yield about 1.057 OG. Preboil should have been around 1.042ish for 7 gallons. You overshot your preboil and didn't increase boil time then it could have resulted in about 1/2 gallon too much wort at lesser gravity, maybe around 1.047-1.048 for 6 gallons of final wort in your BK.

You're saying you got 1.046, so if your final BK volume was around 6 gallons, then you got around 70% efficiency which is darn close to your expected efficiency. Of course, accurate volume measurements will make all the difference.

Accurate gravity measurements are key too. If I take a series of preboil OG readings with my refractometer, I'll get a number of different readings until it gets really mixed in. I don't trust the initial reading, I wait until I get consistent readings

 

[briggssteel]

I've only done about 10 all grain batches so I'm definitely not an expert, but have been able to increase my efficiency and my last batch I hit my expected OG perfectly, so I'll give my thoughts. Some of this stuff you already have done, but I'll reiterate:

1. Make sure you have a calibrated stick. I have gallon markers on my mash paddle measured specifically for my brew kettle. I had one calibrated for a while and I was having major issues with my final boil volume and expected OG. I measured it again and I was about a gallon off by the 7 gallon marker between the two. I would suggest doing another calibration to make sure. If that's not accurate then everything gets screwed up.

2. If you have a bazooka screen, try switching to a false bottom. That really helped my efficiency.

3. I think this one may be your issue. Don't heat the water itself to 168. The water mixed with the grain needs to be 168. On my system I usually heat my water to around 185. That should get you in the ballpark.

4. If you were supposed to take 6.5 gallons to the kettle, why take 7? If you go overboard on sparge water amount I wouldn't take an extra half gallon. Just get the 6.5 and boil it. I think your OG would be much further off having an extra half gallon more than you intended as opposed to sparging with a half gallon too much. Plus the extra half gallon would screw up your hopping.

Also I think you already do this but make sure to stir your grains back in well when you batch sparge. That was causing me efficiency issues. Finally as everyone has said, the crush of the grain could be part is it. I'm sure you'll get it dialed in soon. You seem to be on the right track.

 

[Burrito]

Yup, I stir well and believe my gallon marks are calibrated. The only reason I took all 7 gallons into the kettle was because I wasn't measuring while pulling the last of the sparge. I just assumed in the end I would have 6.5 gallons. I was also drinking some really good IPL from Ballast Point Brewery so that could've caused me to forget to measure. I'm pretty sure the extra water more than anything is the reason for my poor efficiency

 

[briggssteel]

Yup, I stir well and believe my gallon marks are calibrated. The only reason I took all 7 gallons into the kettle was because I wasn't measuring while pulling the last of the sparge. I just assumed in the end I would have 6.5 gallons. I was also drinking some really good IPL from Ballast Point Brewery so that could've caused me to forget to measure. I'm pretty sure the extra water more than anything is the reason for my poor efficiency

Ah. That makes sense. I was under the impression you thought you had to take all 7 gallons since you sparged with it. You'd just fill to 6.5 gallons and you're good to boil. I don't drink while I brew because of that reason. Haha. My being anal about everything starts dropping off until I get to the "meh" mentality about everything. Then it makes for a sloppy brew day.

Like I said, besides the obvious taking an extra half gallon to the fermenter affecting efficiency, try heating your water a little more before sparging. I wasn't sure if you were heating it to 168 or having it hit 168 in the tun. Think of it like your mash in temp but this time you want to hit 168 but stay below 170. 185-190 should get you in the ballpark.

 

[Burrito]

That's an interesting point. Your correct, I was only heating the sparge water to 168 and I guess I thought that was OK for two reasons: my mash tun was already somewhat primed from the mash so I didn't think it would drop the temp too too much. The other thing is I've read some post where folks say that hitting an exact sparge temp isn't crucial. But yeah, I mean it makes sense that the hotter the water the better it should rinse the grain.

 

[HopHeavy]

That extra half gallon abaolutely diluted your preboil gravity more than you originally thought. The sparge gravity is going to drop pretty quickly. The trick is to stop it at the right point, which we usually judge by volume. Some folks, including many here from what I have seen, take repeated readings through the sparge and shut it down when the gravity drops to the desired pb gravity. These guys control the starting gravity and alcohol content, but frequently miss the target volume, depending on their brewhouse. Others, like me (and you) just wing it. We should probably work on that...

 

[briggssteel]

I think it's kind of silly personally to obsess about your sparge gravity but missing your preboil volume. That screws up your efficiency, the final gravity/strength of the beer, hop efficiency, pitching rate and probably lots of other things. If you can hit your preboil volume and keep the sparge water gravity above 1.010 then that's good, but I would think the correct preboil volume is the priority. It's like someone obsessing about getting a beer to have a certain water profile with a bunch of salts but they didn't sanitize their carboy. Ok, maybe that's an extreme example, but the point is that the brewing process is all about priorities.

 

[Burrito]

Point taken, though I definitely wasn't obsessing. Again, I simply may have had one too many IPLs and forgot to measure the kettle volume as I was pulling the last of the sparge.

 

[Burrito]

Upon rereading previous posts I guess u were probably referring to HopHeavy's comment. Disregard my last then

 

[Burrito]

This is the beautiful thing about this hobby. I may have kind of screwed up a little, but A) I learned a valuable lesson, and B ) I still should have a pretty decent APA to enjoy (hopefully)

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I've made some amazing mistakes while brewing. Beer still happened. Might not have been the beer I was shooting for, but it it's always good. Anything with a lot of hop flavor is pretty forgiving.