Sanke Keg Washer build

[zoso]

I own a 3bbl nano and it's a big leap to get even the cheapest keg washer on the market. Would be awesome if someone took this and could make a keg washer for significantly less than $5k

 

[mattd2]

I own a 3bbl nano and it's a big leap to get even the cheapest keg washer on the market. Would be awesome if someone took this and could make a keg washer for significantly less than $5k

Do you have some links to the typical keg washers available on the market. My thoughts are you can DIY one for significantly cheaper because you are not paying for all the overheads of a big company.

 

[marcb]

Do you have some links to the typical keg washers available on the market. My thoughts are you can DIY one for significantly cheaper because you are not paying for all the overheads of a big company.

Brew-stuff has two good examples to look at, a manual two station one similar to this for $5k and an automatic version for $13k

http://brew-stuff.com/kegwashers.html

 

[mattd2]

Brew-stuff has two good examples to look at, a manual two station one similar to this for $5k and an automatic version for $13k

http://brew-stuff.com/kegwashers.html

Thanks marcb - I can't see any differnece in functionality between yours and a comercial model. In answer to the question of why noone "can" build a keg washer for less than $5k is even though the parts cost only a fraction of the cost, if you were paying yourself $60+/hour (which would cover overheads, etc. if you were a business selling these ) how much would of this cost you to build? My guess is $1000 in "parts" and a weeks building time (fabrication, electrical, commissioning) would get you close to nearly there

 

[marcb]

Thanks marcb - I can't see any differnece in functionality between yours and a comercial model. In answer to the question of why noone "can" build a keg washer for less than $5k is even though the parts cost only a fraction of the cost, if you were paying yourself $60+/hour (which would cover overheads, etc. if you were a business selling these ) how much would of this cost you to build? My guess is $1000 in "parts" and a weeks building time (fabrication, electrical, commissioning) would get you close to nearly there

If I was paying myself $60 an hour for working on my brewery I'd be rich! This one took a little longer as I had to design and adapt as I was going but all in all it was about $1500 in parts and probably closer to 60 hours into the build total. Now you could buy a controller and build this with npt instead of TC plumbing to save a boatload of time and money. Then you'd be down to about $1k in parts and knowing what I know now I think it would only take 20-30 hours to build from scratch. One advantage that this design has with the TC fittings is that I can rob from this setup on brew days if I come up short on any fittings and just swap them back in when I'm done!

 

[mattd2]

If I was paying myself $60 an hour for working on my brewery I'd be rich! This one took a little longer as I had to design and adapt as I was going but all in all it was about $1500 in parts and probably closer to 60 hours into the build total. Now you could buy a controller and build this with npt instead of TC plumbing to save a boatload of time and money. Then you'd be down to about $1k in parts and knowing what I know now I think it would only take 20-30 hours to build from scratch. One advantage that this design has with the TC fittings is that I can rob from this setup on brew days if I come up short on any fittings and just swap them back in when I'm done!

I think that if any of us could somehow swing getting $60/hr for working on homebrewery stuff / homebrewing that none of us would go to "real" work
It is a really nice build. I waould like to switch over to sankes one day. Use 50 litre kegs to ferment in then over into 2x 20 litre kegs to carb/serve... one day

 

[marcb]

I think that if any of us could somehow swing getting $60/hr for working on homebrewery stuff / homebrewing that none of us would go to "real" work
It is a really nice build. I waould like to switch over to sankes one day. Use 50 litre kegs to ferment in then over into 2x 20 litre kegs to carb/serve... one day

Given that you can usually find 20l kegs on craigslist pretty cheap (20-25$) I was actually able to sell my fleet of cornies and double my number of kegs without all of issues with the corny kegs. It definitely made it worth it in my situation and I did that prior to building the bigger system so I was only cranking out 20G batches at that point.

 

[zoso]

For me/us it's not that it's hard to design or build something like this (or copy this), it's that you just run out of time focusing on other aspects of the brewery while using a just good enough, not nearly as nice washer because it isn't broken. Not to mention the day job and baby/family that need time. Not complaining, but that's why I haven't gone through the same exercise.

 

[marcb]

For me/us it's not that it's hard to design or build something like this (or copy this), it's that you just run out of time focusing on other aspects of the brewery while using a just good enough, not nearly as nice washer because it isn't broken. Not to mention the day job and baby/family that need time. Not complaining, but that's why I haven't gone through the same exercise.

Agreed, this design/system has been built by several smaller breweries but I have also been to several other mid size breweries that do with what they've got and get by. After pulling spears i decided it was worth it to go this route and made it a fun/unique build for a fraction of the cost of buying. That's in between my other full time gig, coaching football and keeping the SWMBO and four boys happy! of course I don't sleep much and have a tendency of getting obsessed with my builds.

 

[mattd2]

For me/us it's not that it's hard to design or build something like this (or copy this), it's that you just run out of time focusing on other aspects of the brewery while using a just good enough, not nearly as nice washer because it isn't broken. Not to mention the day job and baby/family that need time. Not complaining, but that's why I haven't gone through the same exercise.

Have you any trade schools near you? If you do you might try find an apprentice out of there to build it (for beer), a lot of the apprentices I see would be pretty keen to take on a small project like this and it might even count towards coarse credits

 

[mattd2]

Given that you can usually find 20l kegs on craigslist pretty cheap (20-25$) I was actually able to sell my fleet of cornies and double my number of kegs without all of issues with the corny kegs. It definitely made it worth it in my situation and I did that prior to building the bigger system so I was only cranking out 20G batches at that point.

I think I remember your thread on that haul! To bad shipping to NZ kills ebay deals and so far I have't been lucky to find slim 20s

 

[marcb]

I think I remember your thread on that haul! To bad shipping to NZ kills ebay deals and so far I have't been lucky to find slim 20s

I'll happily stick a few in my carryon next time I'm over!

 

[mattd2]

I'll happily stick a few in my carryon next time I'm over!

Hahahaha, sweet deal!
I am starting to consider getting some new from China, even at US$60 they are still around half the price of a new Corny and less than 70% of the price of a used corny. We'll have to see what shipping does to that though

 

[NatchezBrew]

Do you feel the nano pump does a good job at cleaning the kegs? I was reading another thread where at least 3/4 hp was recommended.

 

[marcb]

Do you feel the nano pump does a good job at cleaning the kegs? I was reading another thread where at least 3/4 hp was recommended.

I've had great results with the nano pump. If you can, find one with the baldor wash down motor so you don't have to worry about iany water splash getting on the windings and popping the gfi. A small cover plate protects mine. There isn't a section of the keg that doesn't hit 170 degrees during the washing process with the nano pump.

 

[BobM]

If I understand correctly, commercial keg washers vary the flow from high to low so that at low flow the cleaning solution runs down the outside of the spear instead of hitting the bottom and merely running down the sides of the keg. Do you vary the flow for this purpose? If not, how well are the outsides of the spears cleaned?

 

[marcb]

If I understand correctly, commercial keg washers vary the flow from high to low so that at low flow the cleaning solution runs down the outside of the spear instead of hitting the bottom and merely running down the sides of the keg. Do you vary the flow for this purpose? If not, how well are the outsides of the spears cleaned?

Yes, I'll cycle the output valve on the pump for the cleaning and rinse cycle. Originally the plan was to automate this function but I wasn't able to find reasonably priced tri clover multi position valves for this purpose so I do it manually. Every few cleaning batches I will pull a spear to inspect the keg and they are clean. There are now several small breweries using this design and I've gotten lots of positive feedback. If you don't like it you can always drop 13k on a two station semi auto rig ; )

 

[BobM]

I like it. In fact, I wish I had one like yours.

 

[DrPhilGood]

Great thread. How many kegs can you clean per hour?

 

[marcb]

Great thread. How many kegs can you clean per hour?

Not very many : (

It goes like this: two on at a time, 20 min PBW wash cycle, 20 min hot water rinse. I use compressed air to purge the kegs before I wash, after the wash and after the rinse. Repeat this 45 min cycle for each pair of kegs to clean (regardless of size) I usually wash 8-16 kegs per session so 3-6 hours and am usually tooling around the brewery doing other clean up or work on the brewhaus, fermenters etc. The next day prior to kegging I sanitize all of them which is another 20 min saniclean cycle with a co2 purge which is 6 per hour. Actual labor is 5-10 minutes per pair total....

 

[KBVC]

Are you using hi temp silicone tubing to go from your output to the cleaning coupler or is it high pressure braided hose? I can't tell from the pictures.

Thanks!

 

[marcb]

Are you using hi temp silicone tubing to go from your output to the cleaning coupler or is it high pressure braided hose? I can't tell from the pictures. Thanks!

Hi temp, hi pressure braided silicone tubing.

 

[guillermo81]

impressive! i'm still waiting for the video

 

[marcb]

impressive! i'm still waiting for the video

Lol, just take the picture of the rig and make a loud, humming pump like sound and you've got your own video. Seriously though I've taken video of this beast in action but that's about how exciting it is to watch ; )

 

[PacificNWBrewer]

don't you know, beer porn is even better with video. even if its just "boring"

Great build sir! Might need to copy this because after budgeting $$$ on other items like fermenters and brite tanks, buying another $5k item might make me crazy. Plus washing kegs correctly and efficiently is crucial if you want repeat customers.

 

[marcb]

don't you know, beer porn is even better with video. even if its just "boring"

Great build sir! Might need to copy this because after budgeting $$$ on other items like fermenters and brite tanks, buying another $5k item might make me crazy. Plus washing kegs correctly and efficiently is crucial if you want repeat customers.

Enjoy! There are cheaper ways to build this but I must admit that I absolutely love this rig. While washing kegs is never fun, this makes it easy to knock out a repetitive job while getting other things done in the brewery!

Happy to share any info with you and answer any questions you may have along the way!

 

[mrjofus1959]

Very nice build marcb!!! We hope to open a micro by the end of the year, and while there won't be much time for me to build rather than buy, I'm pretty sure that this will be one thing I build!!! Thanks for a great thread and all of the details and photos!

 

[KBVC]

Here is my cheaper version of Marcb's build. I used two corney kegs for the holding tanks (both had dented tops and wouldn't seal). I purchased the same pump used by the OP and most of the brass parts. All of the stainless parts I had left over from other builds at various times. I have a few mods to make but it works well.

The frame is a mixture of 1" mild steel, 1.5" mild steel and 2" stainless for the portion where the keg rests while being washed. All of the steel I had left over from my two previous stand builds.

Thanks Marcb for the inspiration.

 

[mrjofus1959]

Nice build KBVC!

marcb - With the tees in place and washing two sixtels at a time, have you seen any issues at all versus washing just one keg? Are both kegs staying at 170F during the wash cycle? And assuming no issues with your setup, do you feel the March pump you're using can also get the job done for cleaning two 1/2 barrel kegs at the same time? I'm guessing maybe some of the breweries you've mentioned might be doing that?

 

[marcb]

Here is my cheaper version of Marcb's build. I used two corney kegs for the holding tanks (both had dented tops and wouldn't seal). I purchased the same pump used by the OP and most of the brass parts. All of the stainless parts I had left over from other builds at various times. I have a few mods to make but it works well.

The frame is a mixture of 1" mild steel, 1.5" mild steel and 2" stainless for the portion where the keg rests while being washed. All of the steel I had left over from my two previous stand builds.

Thanks Marcb for the inspiration.

Super awesome build! My son pointed out that it looks like a jetpack with the two corny kegs as reservoirs!

 

[marcb]

Nice build KBVC!

marcb - With the tees in place and washing two sixtels at a time, have you seen any issues at all versus washing just one keg? Are both kegs staying at 170F during the wash cycle? And assuming no issues with your setup, do you feel the March pump you're using can also get the job done for cleaning two 1/2 barrel kegs at the same time? I'm guessing maybe some of the breweries you've mentioned might be doing that?

I was originally worried about the volume of half barrel kegs with the 10g reservoirs but as it turns out there were no issues. That pump rocks, I haven't had any issues with washing pairs of kegs vs. singles. During early testing I didn't have a hose clamped at the main outlet line of the manifold (full pump pressure through half inch line) and it geysered 180 degree PBW about 30 feet in the air. Thankfully I was outside so it scared the hell out of me instead of scarring the hell out of me : )

 

[KBVC]

Super awesome build! My son pointed out that it looks like a jetpack with the two corny kegs as reservoirs!

Hehe, one of the guys at my office said the same thing. Funny that I didn't notice the resemblance.

I used the vinyl reinforced tubing instead of the reinforced silicone which was a mistake. It is real flexible after it warms up but a royal pain to work with when it is cold. The maiden voyage was done with the outside temp at 35 degrees.

 

[mrjofus1959]

I was originally worried about the volume of half barrel kegs with the 10g reservoirs but as it turns out there were no issues. That pump rocks, I haven't had any issues with washing pairs of kegs vs. singles. During early testing I didn't have a hose clamped at the main outlet line of the manifold (full pump pressure through half inch line) and it geysered 180 degree PBW about 30 feet in the air. Thankfully I was outside so it scared the hell out of me instead of scarring the hell out of me : )

Thanks. Glad it turned out the way it did - yikes!

Is that 120V heating element working out for you as far as maintaining temps during cleaning of multiple kegs? I'm brewing on an electric setup now with 240V 5500W elements, so I'm wondering if I should go that route with the keg washer setup just to have the extra margin.

 

[marcb]

Thanks. Glad it turned out the way it did - yikes!

Is that 120V heating element working out for you as far as maintaining temps during cleaning of multiple kegs? I'm brewing on an electric setup now with 240V 5500W elements, so I'm wondering if I should go that route with the keg washer setup just to have the extra margin.

It works great, I usually only wash about 8 kegs at a time and it holds up fine. There is no reason to stick with 120v if you have access to 240. At the time I only had 120v in the garage. Now I have a 100A sub panel that connects my brewery in and 240v. Had that been available when I built this I would have gone 240.

 

[KBVC]

Marcb, do you use the second reservoir for your rinse water and rinse all kegs with the same water? Right now I have mine setup to use a garden hose for the rinse but this water is around 50 degrees right now. Is it necessary to rinse with hot water? I currently use the second reservoir for saniclean.

Also, where did you get the braided silicone hose. This is one thing I will have to change.

Thanks,
Keith

 

[marcb]

Marcb, do you use the second reservoir for your rinse water and rinse all kegs with the same water? Right now I have mine setup to use a garden hose for the rinse but this water is around 50 degrees right now. Is it necessary to rinse with hot water? I currently use the second reservoir for saniclean.



Also, where did you get the braided silicone hose. This is one thing I will have to change.



Thanks,

Keith

Hi Keith,

Per the PBW instructions I rinse with similar temp water. I use my tankless to fill the rinse water reservoir after the first cleaning cycle. After I have cleaned/rinsed all the kegs I drain both reservoirs and refill the rinse side with clean 70 degree water and add saniclean. I then run through the sanitize cycle and purge the kegs with co2 to prep them for filling.

 

[KBVC]

Hi Keith,

Per the PBW instructions I rinse with similar temp water. I use my tankless to fill the rinse water reservoir after the first cleaning cycle. After I have cleaned/rinsed all the kegs I drain both reservoirs and refill the rinse side with clean 70 degree water and add saniclean. I then run through the sanitize cycle and purge the kegs with co2 to prep them for filling.

At what concentration are you using the Saniclean? I have been using 2oz per 5 gallons and do not rinse after. Is that close to your concentration?

 

[marcb]

At what concentration are you using the Saniclean? I have been using 2oz per 5 gallons and do not rinse after. Is that close to your concentration?

Yes, off the top of my head I think it's 3oz per 5G but I don't rinse after and let it go for a 20min cycle with gravity drain, CO2 purge.

 

[marcb]

Hi everyone. Working through a new concept on this and since we are looking at larger production facility my brain immediately turned to redesigning and automating the keg washing process. Playing around with a single vessel lower cost option as well that I threw together this morning... It's low cost as long as you happen to have tons of tri clamp hw sitting around : )


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[mattd2]

Hi everyone. Working through a new concept on this and since we are looking at larger production facility my brain immediately turned to redesigning and automating the keg washing process. Playing around with a single vessel lower cost option as well that I threw together this morning... It's low cost as long as you happen to have tons of tri clamp hw sitting around : )View attachment 179838


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Whats the process flow for the signle vessel system? Are you celaning all kegs then dumping the vessel and filling with sanitiser?