Rye questions

[azazel1024]

I probably should have picked some minds before jumping in with both feet on making my first rye beer.

I brewed up a Roggenbier yesterday. All seemed to have gone well, but the thing is REALLY cloudy in my fermenter. I am curious if this is a general result of using rye (about 40% of the mash) or maybe something else is up? Also any particular ways to clarify rye beers?

I did not add any clarifying agents (I often use Irish Moss).

recipe was (2.5 Gallons)

2.25lbs malted rye
1.5lbs American 2-row
1b Munich malt
8oz Crystal 20
4oz Honey malt
.35oz fuggle and .1oz cascade 60 min
.5oz fuggle 15 min
.25oz cascade 3 min

Mashed at 148F for 90 minutes

Any general tips on using Rye in the mash? Not listed was 1/2lb of rice halls I used as I heard that Rye was very sticky, which proved true. Should I use more in the future or is 1/2lb for ~2lbs of rye the sweet spot?

Thanks!

 

[tootal]

If you didn't stick your mash then you are using enough rice hulls. The cloudy wort is common. When we use rye we do an acid rest, a protein rest and then get it up to 158 degrees. I have read that the higher mash temps help convert the rye. I don't know that for fact, it's just what I think I remember reading. Mashing out at 165 will also help with thinning the proteins. Our beer turns out clear in the end but yes, getting a little more cloudyness in the wort is the norm. If you're fermenting in a car boy you will see the "brain" that forms. It's pretty gross looking!! It will settle out though!

Your beer should be very dry with that much rye, which in my view is a good thing!

 

[azazel1024]

The driness is what I was shooting for, especially with the lower mash temp.

I mashed out at 168F.

I did read that a protein rest is sometimes the way to go with nothing behind it. So that may help out with clarity when brewing with rye?

Looking at the carboy this morning there is about half an inch of very clear ale with the rest being "well disolved sawdust" is the best way to describe it.

 

[gwapogorilla]

I did a roggen bier not long ago. Rye was 53% of the grain bill, and it was very clear in the fermentor...after the ferm was done. But, I use whirlfloc in all my brews. I am glad I did, because I had a solid cement type of material in my mash tun...and a stuck sparge of a life time! Which gave me a lot of grains in the boil...but it all settled out.

I say give it time, I bet in 2 weeks it looks great.

 

[azazel1024]

Thanks!

My fingers are crossed. I've had a few Rye beers before and I have generally liked them, though most that I have had seem to be very high (relatively speaking) on IBUs (40+ in my experience), so I was shooting for something a little more mild on the bitterness and shoot for more rye "spiceness" to shine through with hopefully a little sweetness from the crystal 20 and honey malts.

 

[tootal]

Thanks!

My fingers are crossed. I've had a few Rye beers before and I have generally liked them, though most that I have had seem to be very high (relatively speaking) on IBUs (40+ in my experience), so I was shooting for something a little more mild on the bitterness and shoot for more rye "spiceness" to shine through with hopefully a little sweetness from the crystal 20 and honey malts.

I agree with you on the high IBU's! We make two versions, a 7 percent Winter and a 5 percent Summer. I think we have 30 IBU's and 18 IBU's. We too like to taste the rye. We used Burton's yeast once and got some complimenting ester's in it. We need to try that again! Looking forward to the results of your brew!

 

[azazel1024]

I think my calculations are roughly 25IBU and I had an OG of, I think, 1.065 (i'd have to check my notebook which I don't have with me at work). S-33 is the yeast I used and it seems to attenuate pretty well, so I am thinking I'll end up with around about a 6.5% brew. Roughly what I was looking for, though actually a little on the high side (I was shooting for 1.06).

My first few AG BiaB attemps were hovering around 65-70% or so efficiency and I changed around a few things, which seems to have improved my efficiency closer to 75%. Both this any my Christmas ale I brewed the same day ended up right around 75% efficiency. So I think I need to start planning my recipes around that.

 

[gwapogorilla]

Yep, my Roggenbier is low on IBU as well...13.4 according to beersmith. I have to say, I wish I had used a different yeast. I used Wyeast 1214, hoping to get a little banana flavor into it....not much, but a little. Rats...none at all.
I am going to try again in a few months using White Labs 300, do away with the Black Prinz and use caramel malts in it's place.
It's not a bad beer, just not what I was aiming for.

 

[azazel1024]

I bottled it tuesday. It tastes very, very good. Ended up at 1.015FG with an OG of 1.065, so ~6.6% ABV. Its got a little honey to it along with the rye spiciness.

I can't wait until it is bottle conditioned. I may go for Spalt hops next time, which is what I had originally planned on using, but my LHBS was out at the time. That and I might push for 30 IBU to see what it does, but otherwise I don't know that I'd change the grain bill on this one.

I am going to have to do some more rye beers after this as it deffinitely lends a bit of uniqueness to the taste that I really like.

 

[tootal]

Mmmm, sounds good! With the cold weather we're brewing lagers but as it warms up I think we need to do our Summer Rye known as the Ryetious Bytch!

 

[azazel1024]

Yeah I am starting to think about spring and summer brews too.

My only conundrum is I really, really want to brew a RIS. More specifically I want to brew a Russian Imperial Coffee Milk Stout. I've had the recipe in my brew book written down for about 4 months now and I just keep coming up with other recipes that are more appropriate to brew first. Part of it is I feel it really needs a minimum of 2 months in the fermenter, maybe 3 or 4. Which pushes it well in to the spring and I think it is really a winter beer. Maybe next September as it starts to cool down I'll brew it?

I have to try my hand at Marzen/Octoberfests soon so that I can get something going to age for Oktoberfest. It'll be an Oktoberfest Ale as I don't have the ability to do lagers yet with my equipment. That and I am eyeing up Dunkles and Dopplebocks, with the ale version caveat.

Really I generally like heavy dark beers. Sigh.

Anyway, spring and summer recipes are on my mind with some more light ryes, maybe try a dark one in there and some blonde ales and wheats soon. I have to take a 4-6 week hiatus from brewing in the spring for some house renovations I have to work on and the summer is just so darned warm to try to brew much, so I kind of have to get most of my brewing for 6 months in by early April.

 

[RM-MN]

Yeah I am starting to think about spring and summer brews too.

My only conundrum is I really, really want to brew a RIS. More specifically I want to brew a Russian Imperial Coffee Milk Stout. I've had the recipe in my brew book written down for about 4 months now and I just keep coming up with other recipes that are more appropriate to brew first. Part of it is I feel it really needs a minimum of 2 months in the fermenter, maybe 3 or 4. Which pushes it well in to the spring and I think it is really a winter beer. Maybe next September as it starts to cool down I'll brew it?

I have to try my hand at Marzen/Octoberfests soon so that I can get something going to age for Oktoberfest. It'll be an Oktoberfest Ale as I don't have the ability to do lagers yet with my equipment. That and I am eyeing up Dunkles and Dopplebocks, with the ale version caveat.

Really I generally like heavy dark beers. Sigh.

Anyway, spring and summer recipes are on my mind with some more light ryes, maybe try a dark one in there and some blonde ales and wheats soon. I have to take a 4-6 week hiatus from brewing in the spring for some house renovations I have to work on and the summer is just so darned warm to try to brew much, so I kind of have to get most of my brewing for 6 months in by early April.

I think now is the time to brew your RIS because it will take some time in the fermenter to completely ferment out and more time yet to mature properly leaving you with a very good beer to drink next winter. If you wait until fall to brew it, you'll be drinking it in the summer.

 

[azazel1024]

Any suggestions on long term storage? Cover and forget pretty much? Check the airlock and top off once a month?

Anything else?

I was looking at shooting for about a 1.1OG, so 12 months is what I should be looking at to get the character to properly integrate? Or realistically more like 4-6 months would be fine?

Right now a Belgian Dupple at 1.074OG is my strongest brew I've ever made. It has roughly 5 weeks in the fermenter right now and right after Christmas I am going to throw some sweet orange and a bit of Saaz in there for a few days (testing with thief for right length of time) giving it maybe 6-7 weeks total.

I've been working off the assumption that (minimum) 3 weeks plus 2 weeks per hundreth of a point of gravity over 1.06 was the best way to go. So 3 weeks at 1.06 or lower, 5 weeks at 1.07, 7 weeks at 1.08, etc.

 

[FRS]

I think now is the time to brew your RIS because it will take some time in the fermenter to completely ferment out and more time yet to mature properly leaving you with a very good beer to drink next winter. If you wait until fall to brew it, you'll be drinking it in the summer.

+1, more time to mature is a great thing! After a month or two you may consider using a secondary for long-term storage, or prime and bottle condition until the weather gets cold.

The rules of thumb on fermentation time are helpful, but ultimately yeast work on their own schedule. In my experience there's no need to wait that long for a 1.074 beer, at least not for my recipes, mash schedule, fermentation temp... Etc. Let taste and your hydrometer be your guide.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[azazel1024]

So for the RIS, I may be better off just giving it a couple of months, bottling it and then letting it collect dust till next winter?

Thanks!

 

[FRS]

I bottle everything, so that is what I would do. It will probably be 'good' after 2 or 3 months in the bottle, but can be expected to improve with age.

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