Rolled Oats

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UdonPete

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Thinking of adding 200gm of (Quaker) rolled oats to a 5 gal batch of Mild as an experiment so may I ask :
1 Should they go through the mill with the other grains or be added whole ?
2 Added at the start of the mash ?
 
I put mine in whole. Also you should use "Quick" oats and not the "Old Fashion" style and I don't know about the instant but too expensive. I don't know how many pounds 200 grams is but I use 3lbs in a stout and it seems to work out nicely. It is oat-ish without being oatey. Not that there would be anything wrong with that...

Also I doubt that there is any difference between Quaker and generic or store brand except for the creepy smiling guy in the sinister hat on the cannister.
 
Flaked oats from the homebrew store, rolled oats, or any "Old Fashioned" oats (Quaker or generic) are pretty much all the same. They've been "heat rolled" which pre-gelatinized the starches. Mostly, that is. It all depends on the process and manufacturer. They can all be used as is, in the mash. Milling them, more completely done on a narrower gap you'd use for wheat or rye malt, will make the bits smaller and increase the speed of hydration, and possibly conversion, once in the mash.

Quick or Instant oats have been further heat treated and broken down already for quicker hydration and conversion. If using the Instant variety, make sure they're unflavored, when using in beer. ;)

Buy what's the cheapest, they're all good to use, as long as they don't smell or taste stale. The Instant type usually run at the highest price. I've been buying 10# boxes of Quaker Old Fashioned at Sam's or Costco for $9-10. Or those 2.2# round tube-style boxes at the Supermarket or Aldi's. Yes, check the date!

The Old Fashioned type may arguably leave a little bit more oaty flavor when used in larger amounts (say over 20%). You may pick up that subtle flavor in a Mild, but not so much in an Oatmeal Stout or IPA.

Oat groats or grits need to be thoroughly pre-cooked (pre-boiled) and/or cereal mashed before using them in the mash. They'd add more flavor, but still quite subtle when used in beer.

Besides for using in beer, oats are tasty and good for you. Make them part of your regular diet! Beats the Wheaties and other lightweight sugary cereals for many reasons.
 
How many pounds of quick rolled oats could I expect a pound of two row base malt to convert, anyway? Asking for a friend.
 
How many pounds of quick rolled oats could I expect a pound of two row base malt to convert, anyway? Asking for a friend.
It depends on the diastatic power (DP) of your 2-row.

You want the average DP of your grist mix to be above 35°L (Lintner) for full conversion. Going for the bare minimum, it may take longer than 60' to fully convert. So you may want to do an Iodine test to prove completion.

So if the DP of your 2-row is 120°L you can (at least theoretically) convert 2.4 pounds of (non-diastatic) adjuncts per pound of 2-row:
120/35 = 3.4 pounds: 1 pound 2-row (120°L) plus 2.4 pounds of non-diastatic (0°L) adjuncts.

Many brewers will choose a higher minimum DP, such as 45°L, to guarantee full (and speedy) conversion of the grist mix.

Pilsner and Wheat malt generally have a higher DP than 2-row or Pale Malt, around 160-180°L, or even above.
 
It depends on the diastatic power (DP) of your 2-row.

You want the average DP of your grist mix to be above 35°L (Lintner) for full conversion. Going for the bare minimum, it may take longer than 60' to fully convert. So you may want to do an Iodine test to prove completion.

So if the DP of your 2-row is 120°L you can (at least theoretically) convert 2.4 pounds of (non-diastatic) adjuncts per pound of 2-row:
120/35 = 3.4 pounds: 1 pound 2-row (120) plus 2.4 pounds of (non-diastatic) adjuncts.

Many brewers will choose a higher minimum DP, such as 45°L, to guarantee full (and speedy) conversion of the grist mix.

Pilsner and Wheat malt generally have a higher DP than 2-row or Pale Malt, around 160-180°L, or even above.
Isn't the starch pretty available in the rolled oats, wouldn't that help them convert quickly as long as you have the residual DP to do the job?
 
I've never brewed with oats before. Should I blend the oats homogeneously with the other grains while dry to prevent a blob of oats from forming wherever they happen to fall in the mash tun. I know they like to clump.
I don't typically get dough balls in my mash but the oats are new territory for me.

What about using malted oats, is there a substitution factor that you can reccomend when a recipe calls for rolled?
 
Should I blend the oats homogeneously with the other grains while dry to prevent a blob of oats from forming wherever they happen to fall in the mash tun. I know they like to clump.
You could, sure, but simply stirring the mash should disperse them sufficiently, preventing excessive clumping, I'd say. The past few years I've been underletting the mash (learned from the LoDO guys), and have had far less clumping too because of that.

I run flaked/rolled adjuncts through the mill, usually at the tighter, 0.025" gap, the same used for wheat malt. It pulverizes them, which helps with faster hydration and possibly conversion.

What about using malted oats, is there a substitution factor that you can reccomend when a recipe calls for rolled?
Malted oat kernels are awfully small, needle-like grains with a leathery husk. I mill/crush them on an even tighter gap (around 0.016-018") than wheat or rye malt and flaked goods. The knurls are almost touching!

When looking at oat malt kernels, you surely get the impression there's as much or even more husk as there's endosperm. It's surprising to me that rolled oats are the size they are, given the small endosperm. I don't recall ever seeing raw (unmalted) oats. Maybe the malting/kilning process shrinks the kernels? I may need to hand crush some and see what they actually yield.

Now you mentioned it, it's probably justified, due to the husk content, to use more oat malt than flaked oats (by weight). Could well be an additional 50%... hmm.

Since I was finally able to get a sack of malted oats, I've been using them in NEIPAs instead of rolled oats, substituted 1 for 1. I can't really tell if the malt makes a difference flavorwise compared to rolled/flaked. Perhaps they help with a more persistent haze, which would need to be tested to make the claim.

I've also brewed with Triticale (it's a wheat/rye crossbreed) another small, narrow, needle-like grain that needs it's own crush setting.
 
Malted oat kernels are awfully small, needle-like grains with a leathery husk. I mill/crush them on an even tighter gap (around 0.016-018") than wheat or rye malt and flaked goods. The knurls are almost touching!
Yes I noticed the diminutive size of the Oat malt, the Rye malt I got is even a little bit finer in the husk. But the Oat seems to be 60% husk where the Rye is more like Barley only smaller.
Definitely will need to play with the gap.
Interestingly, I have some Simpsons Golden Naked oats and they (hull-less) are actually a bit larger than the endosperm inside the malted oats.
They are from two different maltsters so I suppose could be a different variety.
I may do a couple steeping batches tomorrow just to get familiar with the smell and taste of each.

Yeah I went shopping a couple weeks ago so I would have some things to play with :)
 
Interestingly, I have some Simpsons Golden Naked oats and they (hull-less) are actually a bit larger than the endosperm inside the malted oats.
Yes they are!
GNO are a crystal oat malt, apparently.
AFAIK, all crystal/caramel malts are first malted, then mashed inside the husk, so they may plump up during that, and shed their husk. Then they get kilned and roasted, in which they lose most of their moisture, and possibly their plumpness too. They're between brittle and chewy, unlike Barley crystal/caramel malts which are definitely crunchy.
 
It depends on the diastatic power (DP) of your 2-row.

You want the average DP of your grist mix to be above 35°L (Lintner) for full conversion. Going for the bare minimum, it may take longer than 60' to fully convert. So you may want to do an Iodine test to prove completion.

So if the DP of your 2-row is 120°L you can (at least theoretically) convert 2.4 pounds of (non-diastatic) adjuncts per pound of 2-row:
120/35 = 3.4 pounds: 1 pound 2-row (120°L) plus 2.4 pounds of non-diastatic (0°L) adjuncts.

Many brewers will choose a higher minimum DP, such as 45°L, to guarantee full (and speedy) conversion of the grist mix.

Pilsner and Wheat malt generally have a higher DP than 2-row or Pale Malt, around 160-180°L, or even above.
So a pound of malt with a DP of 620 could convert 12lb of non-diastatic adjunct grain? Using Enzyme Malt - Viking Malt | MoreBeer as an example.
 
So a pound of malt with a DP of 620 could convert 12lb of non-diastatic adjunct grain? Using Enzyme Malt - Viking Malt | MoreBeer as an example.
Apples to apples...

Apparently, the listed DP of 620 is in °WP units:
Malt Specification:
Moisture % - max. 7.0
Extract fine % dm - min. 76.0
Diastatic power WK dm - min. 620
Alfa-amylase DU dm - min. 70

The EBC unit of measurement for diastatic power is °WK (Windisch-Kolbach units).
The value of °WK can be converted to °Lintner by the formula:
DP °Lintner = (°WK + 16) / 3.5

Applying the conversion (pun intended!), that would make it a DP of (620 [°WK] + 16) / 3.5 = 182°Lintner
Sounds like 6-row or perhaps very low temp kilned Pilsner malt territory.
 
Apples to apples...

Apparently, the listed DP of 620 is in °WP units:
Malt Specification:
Moisture % - max. 7.0
Extract fine % dm - min. 76.0
Diastatic power WK dm - min. 620
Alfa-amylase DU dm - min. 70

The EBC unit of measurement for diastatic power is °WK (Windisch-Kolbach units).
The value of °WK can be converted to °Lintner by the formula:
DP °Lintner = (°WK + 16) / 3.5

Applying the conversion (pun intended!), that would make it a DP of (620 [°WK] + 16) / 3.5 = 182°Linter
Sounds like 6-row or perhaps very low temp kilned Pilsner malt territory.
I KNEW it was a good idea to ask before buying a bag! Thanks.
 
I KNEW it was a good idea to ask before buying a bag! Thanks.
It's tagged as a distillers malt too, even with custom order enzyme profiles:
Viking Malt per MoreBeer said:
It is also suitable for production of quality grain whisky and pure alcohol. It can be also used for adjusting the Falling Number of baking flour. In order to optimize ethanol yield Enzyme Malt can be delivered as blends of varieties with different enzyme spectra.
They may very well use a blend of selected 6-row and 2-row to create those specific enzyme profiles.

As with most high diastatic 6-row distillers malts, its main purpose is to be able to load it with large percentages of (cheap) adjuncts such as corn or rice. Not for giving us exceptional flavor we expect from malts used in beer production.
 
My wife and I like to make Musli and buy the Bob’s Red Mill old fashioned oats in 25# sacks, so I use those. Interesting about instant breaking down quicker, which I’ll have to try & see if I notice a difference. However, with a 60–90min mash, not sure it’s worth buying another variety if you already have OF on hand *shrug*
 

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