motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
has anyone tried any lager yeasts that they like?
has anyone tried any lager yeasts that they like?
Thanks. This batch is for the holidays, so if its not clear by Thanksgiving, its into the cornie no matter what.
After thinking about it I have an avenue for experimentation.... I have a 5 G carboy and a 3/4 full 1 G carboy of cider both treated with Super Kleer and cold conditioning. (I started w/ 6 gallons). I'll experiment with the small batch, and if I screw it up, no biggie.
The 5G batch was drier and more tart than I expected, but cold and carbed, its pretty good. The bottled stuff is quite dry
interesting that the gallon with the superkleer would end up drier than the rest
I've definitely noticed that more cloudy pours have a somewhat sweeter taste and certainly a thicker mouth feel that clear samples. (same batch, same keg)
Hmm, interesting that the gallon with the superkleer would end up drier than the rest. I wonder if the SK is contributing to that somehow. The batch I did with SK was also noticeably drier than the others, although that aspect didnt really stand out since there was so much oxidation on the batches where I used other clarifiers.
the 3068, at about what gravity should I cold crash it?
Started another 5G batch with cider from the same source... treated with campden and pectic enzyme and using S-04. I'll have a basis for comparison.
If you had to summarize it up to popularity, what is the best yeast and apple combination you have come across so far in your cider experiments, and what are the optimum SG ratings for it?
how much sorbate have you been adding? I usually add about 1/4tsp per gallon for draft ciders, but I always use 1 campden tablet per gallon too.
In that dosage with the added backsweetening I can never taste the sorbate.
On my sorbate pack it calls for 1/4per tsp, but I am not trying to stop an active fermentation so that makes sense that you are using more. Usually I am applying this amount (1/4tsp) to a cold crashed or totally dormant cider that has been aging a minimum of 3-6 months.For the batches where I tried sorbate, I added the recommended dosage on the LD carlson container, which was 1/2 tsp per gallon. I tried using 1/4 tsp, but it would not stop the ferment. k-meta followed by 1/2 tsp will stop an S04 ferment at up to 1.008
Cant taste it, or dont mind it? Even at 1/4 tsp/gal, I'd be really surprised if you couldnt pick it out. I used 1/4 tsp/gal to stop some wild yeast batches (which were 1.002 - 1.004 and didnt take as much to stop as the S04 batches) and could still easily pick out the taste. When I did the last group tasting with these a couple years ago, almost everyone could pick out the sorbate taste, although a lot of people didnt mind it and some people liked it. Next time you stabilize a batch, pour out a few oz before you add the k-meta and sorbate and then compare. You may like the sorbate taste better, but I'm quite sure you will be able to tell the difference.
On my sorbate pack it calls for 1/4per tsp
If I remember, it was a long while ago, I think the sorbate slightly sweetened the dry cider
Interesting, on the LD carlson vial, it says 1/2 tsp/gal for stabilzation. What brand are you using?
The sorbated batches still had a very pronounced sorbate taste, which ranged from annoying to horrible. The worst were the batches with less than a full dose of k-meta, followed by full dose of sorbate. These had a terrible geranium smell that was obvious as soon as the bottle was opened. I was wondering if this would go away after time - not after 3 years. With a full dose of k-meta, the sorbate taste is not as bad, but still very noticeable. Its a vanilla taste, thats similar to oaking (although not quite natural tasting) so I can see how winemakers could get away with it for some styles. I could even see it working in a cider if you added some other spices and pass it off as a holiday cider blend.
the geranium smell is from malolactic bacteria interacting with sorbate.
I would assume that sulphiting at a full dose would have knocked out the malo bacteria.
So I guess the lesson should be, if you plan to sorbate, you better give a full dose of kmeta.
CvilleKevin said:I did a few batches of WB-06 several years ago, but didnt have much luck with it. I havent got decent results from any of the dry wheat yeasts, and I've tried all the ones I could find. I'm not sure why the liquid wheat yeasts come out so much better - could be different strains, or maybe something about the drying process
I've been using a dry Weiss yeast and getting amazing results with a particular juice and process.
Cold crashing for 3 days now. So far refer is only down to 41*. Is that enough?
Bottle on weekend after 1 week of crashing? Taste is dry, thinking bout adding a little fresh juice. Will that give me bombs?
It would be better to go colder if you can, but 41 should be enough to get S04 to drop. You can judge to some extent by how it looks. The carboy should have gone from light and opaque to darker and fairly clear by now.
Not sure why it won't drop lower. It's one of those apt size refers. I have another that can freeze beer in bottles so maybe I should switch the two putting my beer ready to drink in the one that won't go below 41. BTW it's in a white 2 gallon bucket so I can't see any color. It was VERY clear when I transfered to "secondary" bucket.
Yeah, 1.002 is fairly dry. It will get more apple taste back over time. My experience has been that the drier the ciders finish, the longer they need to age to take the edge off the acids that are left over when you ferment off all the sugar. Yes, adding fresh juice will increase the likelihood of bombs, because in addition to more sugar, you will also be adding more nutrients and the possibility of introducing wild yeast. Adding turbinado is safer if you want it sweeter and dont want to wait, or else keep it cold.
Since you used commercial juice, I'd be real careful about bottling these in glass. If you do, I'd recommend drinking one every few days or so and put them all in the fridge or pasteurize the bottles if the carb starts to build. I have a good supply of plastic Gatoraide bottles and or the 1/2 gal plastic the juice came in. What do you think of those?Folks on the HBT forum have had mixed results with cold crashing. I believe the key to doing this right is (1) be really careful on the racking not to pick up any trub. Dont try to get every last drop out of the carboy when you rack it after the crash. The trub was very solid and I was able to get almost all the liquid out w/out it even slidding as I tipped the bucket. Never saw trub that solid. Leave a pint or so behind which you can drink while cleaning up. (2) Use low nutrient juice so that nutrient levels are nearly/completely depleted by the time of the crash. That way, if a few yeast cells do make it though the final rack, they will be unlikely to multiply. If you live in apple country, the easiest way to get low nutrient juice is to look for an organic orchard. If you're not in apple country, its a bit of a crap shoot. The big commercial orchards tend to use nitrogen fertilizers to pump up their juice yields, which makes for more nutrients in the juice. No apples grown here in Hawai`i so I'm stuck w/buying juice.
Plastic Gatorade bottles work fine. I used them for a whole season before I started bottling. I'd recommend them for at least the first couple batches, until you are sure that your juice and process results in stable results. Plus, you can experiment with adding back juice or sugar and not have to worry about re-ferments bursting bottles.
Just out of pure curiosity, what would happen if you used 2 yeasts in the same batch? would one over crowd the other or could they put 2 different spins on how a cider tastes in the end. I'm sure there has to be someone who has tried this.
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