Results from BIAB Methods

[Paradingbull]

Recently made the switch to the BIAB method. I have done 3 brews and did each one with some variation in the method to see for myself the outcome. Maybe others getting started in this method will find this useful as they determine their own methods. All calculations are based on Brewers Friend software.

Beer 1: 60 min mash @ 152F, full water volume mash, minimal mash stir, heated to 170F for mash out, squeezed draining bag like I was mad at it. Got 58% efficiency.

Beer 2: 60 min mash @ 152F, 6 gallon partial water mash, minimal mash stir, no mash out. Rinsed/sparged draining grain bag with about 2 gallons of 170F water. No squeeze. Got 60% efficiency.

Beer 3: 70 min mash @ 152F (90 min was target but I got bored), full water volume mash, brisk stir with 24" whisk every 20 minutes. No mash out. Let bag drain for 20 minutes while heating for boil, no squeeze. Got 66% efficiency.

All three brews had a single pass grain milling at my LHBS.

I am not one to chase every point of efficiency I can get, but do hope to be consistent so recipe's can be adjusted accordingly. I believe the vigorous stirs in method 3 made the most difference for me in getting better efficiency. A double milling or finer grain crush likely would help, will consider trying this variation in the future.

Not trying to stump for any method with this post, just sharing personal results that might be of use to someone else just getting into the BIAB method to consider trying. I am a big fan of the BIAB method. I like easy.

 

[Allergic2hops]

I will tell you my approach and see if you can use any of it to help your process out.

I have a 9 gal (34 ltr) pot. For a smash that I am brewing I use 12 lbs of grain. I typically start out with 7 gal of water in my pot (which is way different than Beer Smith). Here is why. I pay attention to the volume of the pot by measuring the depth of my wort at all stages. I have a metal yard stick I bought a the local DIY store. The internet is full of volume converters I just use the volume of a cylinder and divide by the cubic inches for the volume used. I use gallons, that number is 231 cu in per gallon. That gives you your volume in gallons per in volume. For my pot to have a finished volume of 5.5 gal I need a final wort volume of 9.5".

Like I said I start with 7 gal of water adjusted to 7.0 pH, I mash for 45+ min. The reason I say that is because a very wise poster on HBT let me in on a secret. Once I get to 45 min I start watching the clarity of the wort and stop watching the time. The starch to sugar conversion should lead to crystal clear wort. I check by pulling the bag to the side and view the wort on the other side of the bag. Took me a couple of tries but once I finally saw it I stopped watching the clock. Different mash temps give different conversion rates. So just watch your wort. No need to mash for 75 min if your grain and temp yielded clear wort at 50 min.

Now with that said, I pull the bag and let the first runnings out. Then I put it in a strainer and let it finish draining. While its doing that I measure the wort depth and prepare my sparge water so that I hit 6.5 gallons to begin my boil.

I boil for 45 min and flame out to quickly check my volume, depending on the humidity of the day I may evaporate more or less than I need. I adjust my last hop addition accordingly and at flame out I have 5.5 gal sitting in my pot ready to be cooled with wort chiller added 10 before flame out. According to Brewers Friend my last BIAB brew yielded an efficiency of 89.74%. My OG was 1.071 @ 5.5 gal.

This is the method I used and it yielded a fantastic all grain Pampion ale that made the holidays. At 5.7 percent, it made everyone smile. Hope this helps.

Here is a screen shot of last weeks Smash from my Brewer Friend App. Got to 80% if you round up.

Thanks goes out to the poster who gave me that tip, it changed everything for me, I just don't remember your username. Just passing it on ... paying it forward.

Wow! Sorry for the super large picture!!!!

 

[McKnuckle]

OP: Remember that when people talk about efficiency they rarely state if they mean Conversion, Pre-Boil, Ending Kettle, or Brewhouse. It really makes a difference. There isn't room here for a treatise on the subject, but efficiency is an equation consisting of two variables - volume and gravity. Most of the time people are just discussing their gravity, i.e. how much sugar they were able to convert. But volume is just as important.

If you got every single molecule of sugar out of the grains using the total water volume that you mashed/sparged with, or 100% Conversion efficiency, you will have that same gross sugar amount for the duration of your boil, cool, and transfer activities. But what happens is that, with each step in the process, you lose liquid volume.

First you lose some liquid to grain absorption. You might leave a little more in the MLT as you drain to the kettle. The amount you put in the kettle becomes the basis for your Pre-Boil efficiency. The total sugar concentration has not changed.

Next you'll lose volume to evaporation. After the boil, cooling the liquid results in about a 4% shrinkage loss. The resulting volume in the kettle after those things have occurred is Ending Kettle efficiency. Note that the total sugar amount has still not changed, but its concentration within the liquid has changed, because significant liquid evaporated.

Finally, you'll probably leave some volume behind along with the trub when you transfer to your fermenter. The volume that ends up in the fermenter is the basis for your Brewhouse efficiency. This is the number that I think most people refer to casually.

My point in all this is that people are not just talking about collecting sugar. Their brewhouse efficiency is the product of all of these variables. If you minimize losses, for example, use BIAB which inherently has no MLT loss, and drain the entire kettle contents to your fermenter, you will see a higher efficiency value than people who have MLT and/or trub losses... And it had nothing to do with better sugar extraction!

Personally, I focus on the Conversion efficiency because that's the real deal in terms of getting sugar out of the grain. The other factors are more or less system variables that I can't change very much without switching out pieces of gear.

 

[jwalkermed]

My experience.
For my 1st 2 BIAB I was geting high 50s to mid 60s mash effieciency. I was using a NG burner and double crushed grains through the LHBS mill. No sparge.

For xmas I built an recirculating eBIAB system and got a mill. For the last two batches I got low 80s mash efficiency. I pulverize the grain ( i think the mill is set to .03 inch with a feeler gauge) and still no sparge. I mix a few times during the mash with no worries because the PID keeps my temp steady. I had to dilute the wort because I haven't dialed in this system yet.

I think the next thing for you to try is a finer crush.

 

[C-Rider]

Recently made the switch to the BIAB method. I have done 3 brews and did each one with some variation in the method to see for myself the outcome. Maybe others getting started in this method will find this useful as they determine their own methods. All calculations are based on Brewers Friend software.

Beer 1: 60 min mash @ 152F, full water volume mash, minimal mash stir, heated to 170F for mash out, squeezed draining bag like I was mad at it. Got 58% efficiency.

Beer 2: 60 min mash @ 152F, 6 gallon partial water mash, minimal mash stir, no mash out. Rinsed/sparged draining grain bag with about 2 gallons of 170F water. No squeeze. Got 60% efficiency.

Beer 3: 70 min mash @ 152F (90 min was target but I got bored), full water volume mash, brisk stir with 24" whisk every 20 minutes. No mash out. Let bag drain for 20 minutes while heating for boil, no squeeze. Got 66% efficiency.

All three brews had a single pass grain milling at my LHBS.

I am not one to chase every point of efficiency I can get, but do hope to be consistent so recipe's can be adjusted accordingly. I believe the vigorous stirs in method 3 made the most difference for me in getting better efficiency. A double milling or finer grain crush likely would help, will consider trying this variation in the future.

Not trying to stump for any method with this post, just sharing personal results that might be of use to someone else just getting into the BIAB method to consider trying. I am a big fan of the BIAB method. I like easy.

Crush finer. I went fro 75% to 85% switching from double crushing at the LHBS to making flour in my blender. I can blend 4 lbs in just a few min.

 

[doug293cz]

Recently made the switch to the BIAB method. I have done 3 brews and did each one with some variation in the method to see for myself the outcome. Maybe others getting started in this method will find this useful as they determine their own methods. All calculations are based on Brewers Friend software.

Beer 1: 60 min mash @ 152F, full water volume mash, minimal mash stir, heated to 170F for mash out, squeezed draining bag like I was mad at it. Got 58% efficiency.

Beer 2: 60 min mash @ 152F, 6 gallon partial water mash, minimal mash stir, no mash out. Rinsed/sparged draining grain bag with about 2 gallons of 170F water. No squeeze. Got 60% efficiency.

Beer 3: 70 min mash @ 152F (90 min was target but I got bored), full water volume mash, brisk stir with 24" whisk every 20 minutes. No mash out. Let bag drain for 20 minutes while heating for boil, no squeeze. Got 66% efficiency.

All three brews had a single pass grain milling at my LHBS.

I am not one to chase every point of efficiency I can get, but do hope to be consistent so recipe's can be adjusted accordingly. I believe the vigorous stirs in method 3 made the most difference for me in getting better efficiency. A double milling or finer grain crush likely would help, will consider trying this variation in the future.

Not trying to stump for any method with this post, just sharing personal results that might be of use to someone else just getting into the BIAB method to consider trying. I am a big fan of the BIAB method. I like easy.

The 8 percentage point eff difference between #1 & #3 was most likely due to the more vigorous stirring. It is important to stir well when mashing in, and again prior to pulling the bag. Want to make sure as much of the sugar is in the wort as possible vs retained in the grain particles. The stirring reduces the effects of being diffusion limited. Finer crush or double crush should get you another big increment in eff.

You might also want to check into the water you are using to brew with. Alkalinity, calcium and magnesium have a large effect on mash pH, which in turn can affect conversion efficiency. Mash pH should be targeted between 5.3 and 5.5 for best results. Other ions can have large effects on beer flavor.

To get started on this you should try to get a complete water report from your water supplier. If you have a well, Ward Labs can do a water test for you. A way to get water of known quality, with low alkalinity, is to get RO (reverse osmosis) water from your supermarket (most have RO water dispensers). Then start by reading the water primer here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/. Also a lot of water information and a popular water profile calculator can be found here: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Brew on

 

[Allergic2hops]

OP: Remember that when people talk about efficiency they rarely state if they mean Conversion, Pre-Boil, Ending Kettle, or Brewhouse. It really makes a difference. There isn't room here for a treatise on the subject, but efficiency is an equation consisting of two variables - volume and gravity. Most of the time people are just discussing their gravity, i.e. how much sugar they were able to convert. But volume is just as important.

If you got every single molecule of sugar out of the grains using the total water volume that you mashed/sparged with, or 100% Conversion efficiency, you will have that same gross sugar amount for the duration of your boil, cool, and transfer activities. But what happens is that, with each step in the process, you lose liquid volume.

First you lose some liquid to grain absorption. You might leave a little more in the MLT as you drain to the kettle. The amount you put in the kettle becomes the basis for your Pre-Boil efficiency. The total sugar concentration has not changed.

Next you'll lose volume to evaporation. After the boil, cooling the liquid results in about a 4% shrinkage loss. The resulting volume in the kettle after those things have occurred is Ending Kettle efficiency. Note that the total sugar amount has still not changed, but its concentration within the liquid has changed, because significant liquid evaporated.

Finally, you'll probably leave some volume behind along with the trub when you transfer to your fermenter. The volume that ends up in the fermenter is the basis for your Brewhouse efficiency. This is the number that I think most people refer to casually.

My point in all this is that people are not just talking about collecting sugar. Their brewhouse efficiency is the product of all of these variables. If you minimize losses, for example, use BIAB which inherently has no MLT loss, and drain the entire kettle contents to your fermenter, you will see a higher efficiency value than people who have MLT and/or trub losses... And it had nothing to do with better sugar extraction!

Personally, I focus on the Conversion efficiency because that's the real deal in terms of getting sugar out of the grain. The other factors are more or less system variables that I can't change very much without switching out pieces of gear.

Excellent explanation. Thanks.

 

[Milan37]

Recently made the switch to the BIAB method. I have done 3 brews and did each one with some variation in the method to see for myself the outcome. Maybe others getting started in this method will find this useful as they determine their own methods. All calculations are based on Brewers Friend software.

Beer 1: 60 min mash @ 152F, full water volume mash, minimal mash stir, heated to 170F for mash out, squeezed draining bag like I was mad at it. Got 58% efficiency.

Beer 2: 60 min mash @ 152F, 6 gallon partial water mash, minimal mash stir, no mash out. Rinsed/sparged draining grain bag with about 2 gallons of 170F water. No squeeze. Got 60% efficiency.

Beer 3: 70 min mash @ 152F (90 min was target but I got bored), full water volume mash, brisk stir with 24" whisk every 20 minutes. No mash out. Let bag drain for 20 minutes while heating for boil, no squeeze. Got 66% efficiency.

All three brews had a single pass grain milling at my LHBS.

I am not one to chase every point of efficiency I can get, but do hope to be consistent so recipe's can be adjusted accordingly. I believe the vigorous stirs in method 3 made the most difference for me in getting better efficiency. A double milling or finer grain crush likely would help, will consider trying this variation in the future.

Not trying to stump for any method with this post, just sharing personal results that might be of use to someone else just getting into the BIAB method to consider trying. I am a big fan of the BIAB method. I like easy.

The difficulty with this is that you're changing more than one variable at a time. This leads to difficulty with consistency, because you don't really know which one made the difference. Between 1 and 3, there are differences with mash time, stirring, mash out/no mash out, and squeezing vs draining.

So while it's possible to say that one change was more likely than the others to result in greater efficiency, it's really not possible to know which one. I think it's likely a combination of factors, all contributing. But even that's just a wild guess.

If consistency is your goal, try #1 again, and change just one thing. I'd start with mash time. Go for the full 90 minutes.

 

[doug293cz]

Recently made the switch to the BIAB method. I have done 3 brews and did each one with some variation in the method to see for myself the outcome. Maybe others getting started in this method will find this useful as they determine their own methods. All calculations are based on Brewers Friend software.

Beer 1: 60 min mash @ 152F, full water volume mash, minimal mash stir, heated to 170F for mash out, squeezed draining bag like I was mad at it. Got 58% efficiency.

Beer 2: 60 min mash @ 152F, 6 gallon partial water mash, minimal mash stir, no mash out. Rinsed/sparged draining grain bag with about 2 gallons of 170F water. No squeeze. Got 60% efficiency.

Beer 3: 70 min mash @ 152F (90 min was target but I got bored), full water volume mash, brisk stir with 24" whisk every 20 minutes. No mash out. Let bag drain for 20 minutes while heating for boil, no squeeze. Got 66% efficiency.

All three brews had a single pass grain milling at my LHBS.

What were the strike water volumes and wort into BK volumes for #1 & #3? There has been discussion elsewhere on HBT about how much benefit squeezing may or may not have over just a long hang 'n drain. Looks like you might have some good numbers for comparison.

Brew on

 

[Paradingbull]

What were the strike water volumes and wort into BK volumes for #1 & #3? There has been discussion elsewhere on HBT about how much benefit squeezing may or may not have over just a long hang 'n drain. Looks like you might have some good numbers for comparison.

Brew on

On brew #1 did 7.0 gallon even, 11lb grain bill, got 5-3/4'ish to kettle, and it resulted in 4.5 gal to fermenter, had to top up a bit.

The other one was also a 11lb grain bill, went up to 7-3/4 gal volume, about 6.5gal to kettle, and almost dead on 5 gal to fermenter.

 

[doug293cz]

On brew #1 did 7.0 gallon even, 11lb grain bill, got 5-3/4'ish to kettle, and it resulted in 4.5 gal to fermenter, had to top up a bit.

The other one was also a 11lb grain bill, went up to 7-3/4 gal volume, about 6.5gal to kettle, and almost dead on 5 gal to fermenter.

In both cases your grain retention was 1.25 gal, or 0.11 gal/lb. This seems a bit on the high side compared to reports by other BIAB'ers of 0.06 - 0.09 gal/lb with various levels of squeezing, and 0.10 gal/lb for no squeezing. I don't have any good insight as to why this might be, but am curious if it might be related to crush. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Brew on

 

[McKnuckle]

0.11-0.12 qts/lb is the typical absorption rate for grain in a traditional, non-BIAB mash tun, where there is no extended gravity drain and usually a small residual volume loss. Did you drain your bag over the kettle (I can't recall if you mentioned it)?

 

[Paradingbull]

0.11-0.12 qts/lb is the typical absorption rate for grain in a traditional, non-BIAB mash tun, where there is no extended gravity drain and usually a small residual volume loss. Did you drain your bag over the kettle (I can't recall if you mentioned it)?

Yes, in all three cases drained the bag directly over the kettle. I will add that my brewpot is marked in 2 gallon increments and the amounts given are me eyeballing estimating where it fell between marks, no exact measurement was taken.