Repitch or bottle high OG, under-attenuated beer in secondary?

[huskeypm]

Hi
I have an FG 1.03 beer in a secondary and would like advice on whether to repitch yeast or just bottle.

I didn’t take an initial OG reading, I added 5 gal waters instead of 6 gal for the recipe (resulting in much higher gravity than anticipated) and racked the beer too early apparently.

The recipe I made (for 6 gal water) was the following:
13lbs Pilsner Light malt extract LME
1.5lbs Belgian Candy

2 oz. German Hallertau 3.8%AA 60min
1 oz. Styrian Goldings 3.4% AA 30min
1 oz. Saaz 2.8% AA 3min

WLP500 Trappist ale yeast (1 qt starter)

I used a calculator, which estimated the starting gravity as 1.105 with an expected FG of 1.023 (assumes 75% attenuation). I racked at 3 weeks, in secondary for about 2 weeks so far with 1.03 FG, which is about 71% attenuation.

Since the ABV is already quite high (likely around 10%), I was toying with the idea of adding champagne yeast.

Advice would be much appreciated! (I apologize in advance if this posted already – my internet timed out during the first posting)

Thanks!
pete

 

[Double_D]

I would leave it the way it is. Bottle it and give it a couple months to mellow out. I've been told the champagne yeast can make stuff really dry. Next time it would be a good idea to take an original gravity reading. You might be at 75% attenuation and not know it.

 

[3PegBrew]

Did it Peter-Out in primary at 1.030 before transfer? Fermentation slows down a lot and some High Gravity beers spin their wheels at the end. That's why I let mine sit in primary for 4 weeks at least. Sometimes I don't even bother with secondary.

 

[huskeypm]

Thanks everyone!
Yes, it petered out before the transfer, even after a good sloshing around in hopes of aerating the batch. I agree that I should have left it in the primary, though I wanted to see if there'd be any difference in taste if it aged without the trub for a while.

I'll hold off on the champagne yeast per your suggestion. I certainly don't want to overshoot the FG. That said, is there any risk of these bottles exploding given the current FG of 1.03? Should I bother adding bottling sugar?

pete

 

[dcp27]

I've been told the champagne yeast can make stuff really dry. Next time it would be a good idea to take an original gravity reading. You might be at 75% attenuation and not know it.

this is a myth. champagne yeast struggles with the more complex sugars found in beer and will not dry it out. its only useful in beer to gaurentee carbonation. also, theres zero need to take an OG with extract + sugar, its a known amount of sugar so its easily calculated.

That said, is there any risk of these bottles exploding given the current FG of 1.03?

I would not bottle this yet. not only is 1.03 a bottle bomb risk, but thats at least 10pts too high for anything belgian. it'll be too sweet. part of the probelm is you significantly underpitched. have you already tried rousing it and warming it up to try to get it going again?

 

[huskeypm]

this is a myth. champagne yeast struggles with the more complex sugars found in beer and will not dry it out. its only useful in beer to gaurentee carbonation. also, theres zero need to take an OG with extract + sugar, its a known amount of sugar so its easily calculated.

Agreed. I rinsed the extract bags, so I'd say there's a negligible difference between the recipe and what got added. Good to know about the champagne yeast not drying out the batch.

I would not bottle this yet. not only is 1.03 a bottle bomb risk, but thats at least 10pts too high for anything belgian. it'll be too sweet. part of the probelm is you significantly underpitched. have you already tried rousing it and warming it up to try to get it going again?

Thanks for the warnings. I used a 1 qt starter, but next time I'll use a pitch calculator to better estimate what I need. I have not tried rousing or warming. Since there is no trub in the secondary, would I need to repitch before having any hope of getting things going? If I repitch, should I use more of the trappist ale starter I have left or use champagne yeast?

 

[dcp27]

I'd try gently swirling the fermenter (make sure not to splash, oxygen = bad at this point) and bringing it up to 70+. if that doesn't get it going, you can try pitching a starter of more yeast (not champagne) at high krausen.

btw, what temp were you fermenting at? sometimes belgian strains are finicky and will floc out with slight temp drops.

 

[3PegBrew]

I'd try gently swirling the fermenter (make sure not to splash, oxygen = bad at this point) and bringing it up to 70+. if that doesn't get it going, you can try pitching a starter of more yeast (not champagne) at high krausen.

btw, what temp were you fermenting at? sometimes belgian strains are finicky and will floc out with slight temp drops.

I think another starter to jump start the batch would work.

I highly doubt anything will happen after transferring to a secnodary, without some more active yeasties.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I wouldn't say there's "zero" need to take an OG in extract. Boil off rates, cooling shrinkage and yes..failure to get all the LME out of the can/bag or spillage of dme (I've done it!) will change what your software calculates based on the "known" amount of sugars.

But it's not neccesary. I agree with that. You can get close enough..but if you're trying to decipher between 71% attenuation and 75%..it might help to have that OG number.

 

[BryanJ]

Yes, it petered out before the transfer, even after a good sloshing around in hopes of aerating the batch.

This wasn't the best idea since this beer is one that will need time to age. You likely underpitched and didnt provide a good start for a nice strong fermentation. When I do a high gravity belgian beer I start it in the low range for fermentation temps and ramp it up as its finishing in order for the yeast to get to everything and attenuate properly.

 

[huskeypm]

I'd try gently swirling the fermenter (make sure not to splash, oxygen = bad at this point) and bringing it up to 70+. if that doesn't get it going, you can try pitching a starter of more yeast (not champagne) at high krausen.

btw, what temp were you fermenting at? sometimes belgian strains are finicky and will floc out with slight temp drops.

I've been fermenting at precisely room temperature in San Diego! (Generally between 69-72, but probably quite inconsistent). Given this, would you suggest reheating up to 75 or so?

 

[huskeypm]

This wasn't the best idea since this beer is one that will need time to age. You likely underpitched and didnt provide a good start for a nice strong fermentation. When I do a high gravity belgian beer I start it in the low range for fermentation temps and ramp it up as its finishing in order for the yeast to get to everything and attenuate properly.

OK - I will chalk this up as a lesson learned. I'll have to look into better temperature control (and of course better starter, etc) in the future.

Thank so much for everyone's help!

 

[Double_D]

theres zero need to take an OG with extract + sugar, its a known amount of sugar so its easily

If he had taken a measurement he would know his OG was to high and would have realized he didn't put all the water in. Effectively eliminating this entire discussion.

 

[ACbrewer]

Hi
I have an FG 1.03 beer in a secondary and would like advice on whether to repitch yeast or just bottle.

I didn’t take an initial OG reading, I added 5 gal waters instead of 6 gal for the recipe (resulting in much higher gravity than anticipated) and racked the beer too early apparently.

The recipe I made (for 6 gal water) was the following:
13lbs Pilsner Light malt extract LME
1.5lbs Belgian Candy

2 oz. German Hallertau 3.8%AA 60min
1 oz. Styrian Goldings 3.4% AA 30min
1 oz. Saaz 2.8% AA 3min

WLP500 Trappist ale yeast (1 qt starter)

I used a calculator, which estimated the starting gravity as 1.105 with an expected FG of 1.023 (assumes 75% attenuation). I racked at 3 weeks, in secondary for about 2 weeks so far with 1.03 FG, which is about 71% attenuation.

Since the ABV is already quite high (likely around 10%), I was toying with the idea of adding champagne yeast.

Advice would be much appreciated! (I apologize in advance if this posted already – my internet timed out during the first posting)

Thanks!
pete

I'm having troubles with your numbers... did you start at 5 gal total volume or 6? "I added 5 gallons of water" well 13lb of lme should be about a gallon on it's own.

When I take 13lb lme (37ppg) and 1.5lb of candy (46ppg) I get an OG of 1.110 for 5 gallons. This makes the 1.030 reading about 72-73% attenuation. With again 1.110 start your 75% goal is 1.027.

Although given that WLP500 Trappist ale yeast has a listing of 75-80% attenuation, I think you are looking for less than 1.030 you have. Closer to 1.023 you desired. How to restart? An OG would have been handy here.

How does it taste?

 

[dcp27]

If he had taken a measurement he would know his OG was to high and would have realized he didn't put all the water in. Effectively eliminating this entire discussion.

not necessarily. having the correct amount of water would have still made it just as underpitched (~1/3 if using a stirplate, much more if not), and while the lower alcohol would have made it less toxic, chances are it still woulda stalled, albeit not quite as high.

 

[3PegBrew]

I was reflecting on my first screw ups brewing. In the process I got the song, "If I only had a brain" stuck in my head. Now I'm changing it to, "If I only had a beer"

 

[huskeypm]

If he had taken a measurement he would know his OG was to high and would have realized he didn't put all the water in. Effectively eliminating this entire discussion.

True. This is the first time I forgot to take the measurement, so I appreciate everyne's help in fixing the situation

 

[huskeypm]

I'm having troubles with your numbers... did you start at 5 gal total volume or 6? "I added 5 gallons of water" well 13lb of lme should be about a gallon on it's own.

When I take 13lb lme (37ppg) and 1.5lb of candy (46ppg) I get an OG of 1.110 for 5 gallons. This makes the 1.030 reading about 72-73% attenuation. With again 1.110 start your 75% goal is 1.027.

Although given that WLP500 Trappist ale yeast has a listing of 75-80% attenuation, I think you are looking for less than 1.030 you have. Closer to 1.023 you desired. How to restart? An OG would have been handy here.

How does it taste?

I think the total volume was supposed to be 6 gal, but definitely 5gal water was supposed to be added.

It tastes great! (as far as a flat, warm beer goes)