Recirc during boil for eBIAB.

[Tommydee]

Quick question, just went eBIAB. The new rig works great, but I planned to stop my pump in the boil mode.

Problem is, when I do this, the probe cools. When it hits below the ezboil ramp config (200F default), the controller calls for 100% power, resulting in boilover. I see three choices, in the following order:

1. Just keep recirc pump going through the whirlpool during boil
2. Once boil starts, go to main menu and reset the default boil ramp parameter down to 100 F. (But now I need to reset every batch)
3. Move probe closer to the body of kettle

Are you all just running the pump during boil, as that seems easiest for me. Anything else I'm missing?

 

[BeardedBrews]

I recirculated during boil for a while but find that a bit of a pain. I ended up moving the probe to the kettle and have been happy with the performance of that configuration.

 

[golfindia]

EZboil doesnt have a manual mode?

 

[Paulaner]

You should be able to turn down your boil acceleration set temp or bast as is appears in the menu.

 

[Tommydee]

I recirculated during boil for a while but find that a bit of a pain. I ended up moving the probe to the kettle and have been happy with the performance of that configuration.

@BeardedBrews, above the false bottom/element(worry about tearing bag), or below (worry about temp not representative of mash above or too close to element during mash)? I have a plugged hole above my FB that I could access straight away, maybe I’ll try that next brew, and try to remember to steer bag away from that side.

 

[augiedoggy]

As hinted by Golfindia the EZBoil uses manual duty cycle to control the boil in boil mode which doesnt use the temp probe.
I set my (also used to do this with my ezboil) pid to stop at 190 when I add my fermcap and then switch to manual duty cycle mode and let it rise to a boil from there while I watch for the boilover if I dont add fermcap. You can simply recirculate until you switch to the boil mode on the ezboil and set your duty cycle and avoid the issue all together since the probe does nothing during the boil that you cant see from the bubbles in the boil.

then again there may be some sort of automated process your trying to use here which I dont know about since the latest release of the ezboil is different than the one I have and used to use.

 

[augiedoggy]

another thing you can do is use one of the relay outputs to shut the pump off when a certain temp is reached automatically. I did this with my separate timer and my ezboil because I had timers for the boil and hop additions. Have the probe in a tee doesnt work well I did it on my first setup and eventually bought a longer probe that reached through the tee into the kettle. which does work ok..

Where is the temp probe mounted now? in a tee or is it measuring temps somewhere entirely different like in the pump line?

 

[Tommydee]

EZboil doesnt have a manual mode?

Yes, sort of. I can just set the ramp temp in boil mode down to 100 (default 200 F) using main menu as soon as it starts to boil, and Stop recirc. But then I need to set it again next time I brew, or it will ramp up from mashout at 168 to boiling using only 32% power. Or yes, I could leave ramp parameter always set low to 100 F, and manually set power to 100% while I recirc and ramp up, then watch the boil, but this is of course riskier to boil over. The EZboil is fantastic, as I have all these choices, but I’d like to enable the software to work as designed if possible.

 

[augiedoggy]

the "boil mode" should have a duty cycle number that goes up to 100% which basically pulses the element at a certian time percentage to control heat output? it makes the knob on the unit work like a stovetop to control boil intensity. Is all that being disabled the way you are using it? if you just set the last temp setpoint to a lower number you should be able to switch over to the manual mode and control the boil from there before the temp reaches the point of a possible boil over. thats what I did. recircing boiling liquid through a pump is not very good for most pumps and if im not mistaken can cause cavitation as well being counterproductive against the boil.

 

[Tommydee]

@augiedoggy, I have the new dspr320, and your responses have provided the solution, thanks again HBT community. This new menu logic allows to ramp in boil mode, so I’m switching to the boil mode while I pull the bag. All I need to do is end my mashout/Lauter with a hold phase, then add a ramp to 200 F while still in mash program while pulling the bag. Then when the controller beeps, I’ll enter boil mode and boil program. I’ll set the ramp parameter down to 70 F or something, so boil mode will behave like it probably does in older versions of the controller, and this will be a permanent change. I don’t know for certain if this explains the difference, as this is both first time brewing with a pid , and I’m starting right off with the new “LODO” model of the EZboil.

The takeaway from this for anyone upgrading to the 320. If you prefer your TC location to be in the recirc (I do), then I highly recommend setting the boil setting parameter ramp temp down from the default of 200 F to, say 70 F, thereby disabling this, and not allowing the controller to apply 100% in an attempt to ramp while boiling wort.

 

[Goowa]

I recirculated during boil for a while but find that a bit of a pain. I ended up moving the probe to the kettle and have been happy with the performance of that configuration.

Any pictures of where you put your probe? I just finally got the guts to punch a hole in my kettle this weekend and attached shows a pic where i put mine.

20190112_210157

• Goowa
• Jan 14, 2019

I want to be able to recirculate BIAB, as well as monitor the temp to ramp up the boil, as well as have the ability to chill back into the kettle and get to cooler late hop additions. Couldn't think of a way to do all that with a probe in the recirc loop, short of getting two probes with disconnects. I already had the thermowell too, so i just went with that and a 4" RTD probe to shove in there.

 

[BeardedBrews]

@BeardedBrews, above the false bottom/element(worry about tearing bag), or below (worry about temp not representative of mash above or too close to element during mash)? I have a plugged hole above my FB that I could access straight away, maybe I’ll try that next brew, and try to remember to steer bag away from that side.

If you take a temperature reading at 5-10 places around your kettle/mash there will be some variation no matter what. The better your recirculation the less variation, but there will always be some.

My probe is under the basket, and positioned away from the element, but admittedly somewhat close. I figure the probe will basically read the hottest the wort is getting so I can avoid overheating. With a gentle recirculation I find a temperature taken a couple inches down in the mash bed is always within +/-1f of the controller.

When I had my probe at the pump I had a couple incidents where I'd cut the pump off without turning off the element. As the pump housing cooled the element tried to keep up until I realized what had happened. It was user error, but for my system I found that I didn't actually need the pump as much as I thought. Moving the probe reduced my reliance on pumping a bit.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Any pictures of where you put your probe? I just finally got the guts to punch a hole in my kettle this weekend and attached shows a pic where i put mine.

20190112_210157

• Goowa
• Jan 14, 2019

I want to be able to recirculate BIAB, as well as monitor the temp to ramp up the boil, as well as have the ability to chill back into the kettle and get to cooler late hop additions. Couldn't think of a way to do all that with a probe in the recirc loop, short of getting two probes with disconnects. I already had the thermowell too, so i just went with that and a 4" RTD probe to shove in there.

Sure thing, this might be the best I have on my phone. It is basically at the same height as the element and the pickup tube. The basket sits a little above everything.

I used an eBay probe that had a decent shoulder on it so that I could directly mount in a hole like the "true bulkheads" from BrewHardware.

 

[Goowa]

Sure thing, this might be the best I have on my phone. It is basically at the same height as the element and the pickup tube. The basket sits a little above everything.

I used an eBay probe that had a decent shoulder on it so that I could directly mount in a hole like the "true bulkheads" from BrewHardware.View attachment 607280

Ah, you went for perpendicular to the element. That was the 50/50 coin toss that I didn't land on. I picked the location I went with cause the probe would be in between the element and the pickup tube. I'll be sure to share how it works when I finally get up and running. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Tommydee]

Thanks both for sharing your pics and experience, I might eventually follow suit if you’re seeing a reasonable agreement with top of mash, or at least a consistent offset.

 

[Goowa]

Thanks both for sharing your pics and experience, I might eventually follow suit if you’re seeing a reasonable agreement with top of mash, or at least a consistent offset.

Rest assured when I'm up and running there will be a nauseating amount of data.

 

[Tommydee]

Posting for closure, I brewed Saturday, and made sure I did all ramping to 202 in mash mode, at the end of the mash program. I then went boil mode. I set the boil ramp setpoint to 60 degrees, so as long as I'm in boil mode, it will always output the duty of the program, never just suddenly juice the element with 100%.

I can see benefit of having boil steps in mash program for LODO brewing, but I don't think I will miss ramp steps in boil mode.

 

[Trainman28]

Posting for closure, I brewed Saturday, and made sure I did all ramping to 202 in mash mode, at the end of the mash program. I then went boil mode. I set the boil ramp setpoint to 60 degrees, so as long as I'm in boil mode, it will always output the duty of the program, never just suddenly juice the element with 100%.

I can see benefit of having boil steps in mash program for LODO brewing, but I don't think I will miss ramp steps in boil mode.

I've been using the auber cube with the same ezboil model you have. I also have my probe in a tee during the beginning of recirculation. After mash out, I go straight to boil mode at 100%, then once it barely starts to boil I dial it down to 30% and it still has a healthy boil going on