Ready to make the swap to AG

[Pariah3j]

So up till now for the last few years I've just been doing Extract kits from the LHBS. This last weekend I gave BIAB a try to see how it went, figuring it would give me an idea of whether I wanted to make the swap to AG or not. Had fun, made one huge mistake - put the bag of grains on the stove and then turned on the wrong burner. Grain went everywhere, but I was able to recover 90% of it, so no real harm/foul. (This batch is already being called 'The Floor Beer' by the wife ) One other slight oversite was my kettle size, I inherited it from a friend who moved away. Never bothered measuring it, but I was sure he told me it was a 7-8 gal kettle. Turns out it was only 5.5ish. So I had to get creative in order to finish my first BIAB, i worked around the size constraint by adding in lautered runoff from the grains during the boil. All in all a good learning experience.

Been saving up to buy/build myself a kegerator system, instead I've decided to use those funds to buy a new AG setup. I've ordered a Kettle, Mash Tun, Mash Pattle, etc. I've ordered or have everything but a HLT(I will buy or build one before next brew day, trying to find one at a discount first).

So given all of this, is there any advice for essentially a first time AG brew ? Any equipment you might suggest that is invaluable for a new AG brewer?

 

[Staticsouls]

Reuse the kettle your friend gave you as the hlt drill holes and get weldless fittings if you need to. Might help save money.

 

[jr72023]

So given all of this, is there any advice for essentially a first time AG brew ? Any equipment you might suggest that is invaluable for a new AG brewer?

My advice is simple. Take your time assembling everything and enjoy every minute of it. Read every manual and become as knowledgeable as possible about all of your equipment, and procedures.

Start simple. This will help you get familiar with the procedure and know what to expect. An ale would be a good start, in my opinion. It will give you a chance to test drive the equipment and learn to take readings. When you get the readings you will have a fairly decent idea of how well you did. If you are wildly inefficient you will have lost just a few bucks in grains and hops. Hopefully you will be able to identify the problem. If you hit the marks for your recipe it is time to take on more challenging projects.

As for equipment, I have found that thermometers are wildly different. Personally I have a lab thermometer that I use as the benchmark. The infrared gun is only handy for approximate temps. Digital models vary widely unless you get one that is certified. My 10 dollar thermometer outperforms all that expensive stuff. That lesson cost me, literally. So, I would recommend a decent, lab grade thermometer.

Not really equipment but, Star San. I have probably only been moderately religious in sanitation. It still ends up being half the work, or so it seems. Never had a bad batch or any kind of problem, knock on wood. Do yourself a favor and keep a spray bottle full of it handy. You will not only end up using less of the mixture, you will also be using it more often.

Last, but not least, with every batch you brew, take the time to sit down with a glass and enjoy it. Blot out the rest of the world and realize what you did with some grains, hops, water, and yeast. Your next recipe will probably come to mind.

 

[55x11]

So up till now for the last few years I've just been doing Extract kits from the LHBS. This last weekend I gave BIAB a try to see how it went, figuring it would give me an idea of whether I wanted to make the swap to AG or not. Had fun, made one huge mistake - put the bag of grains on the stove and then turned on the wrong burner. Grain went everywhere, but I was able to recover 90% of it, so no real harm/foul. (This batch is already being called 'The Floor Beer' by the wife ) One other slight oversite was my kettle size, I inherited it from a friend who moved away. Never bothered measuring it, but I was sure he told me it was a 7-8 gal kettle. Turns out it was only 5.5ish. So I had to get creative in order to finish my first BIAB, i worked around the size constraint by adding in lautered runoff from the grains during the boil. All in all a good learning experience.

Been saving up to buy/build myself a kegerator system, instead I've decided to use those funds to buy a new AG setup. I've ordered a Kettle, Mash Tun, Mash Pattle, etc. I've ordered or have everything but a HLT(I will buy or build one before next brew day, trying to find one at a discount first).

So given all of this, is there any advice for essentially a first time AG brew ? Any equipment you might suggest that is invaluable for a new AG brewer?

My advice may be too late. Mash tun - all you need is a cooler really and a few minor parts. You can build one (70qt. Coleman, blue) for ~$60-70.
Kettle - just use a big pot. 5.5G is on the small side, go with 8G, or 9G or 10G - for 5G batches.
Mash Paddle (sp?) - overrated. You just need a big spoon/spatula. You may already have it.

Keep saving for the keggerator, it's a lot of fun.

 

[RM-MN]

So up till now for the last few years I've just been doing Extract kits from the LHBS. This last weekend I gave BIAB a try to see how it went, figuring it would give me an idea of whether I wanted to make the swap to AG or not. Had fun, made one huge mistake - put the bag of grains on the stove and then turned on the wrong burner. Grain went everywhere, but I was able to recover 90% of it, so no real harm/foul. (This batch is already being called 'The Floor Beer' by the wife ) One other slight oversite was my kettle size, I inherited it from a friend who moved away. Never bothered measuring it, but I was sure he told me it was a 7-8 gal kettle. Turns out it was only 5.5ish. So I had to get creative in order to finish my first BIAB, i worked around the size constraint by adding in lautered runoff from the grains during the boil. All in all a good learning experience.

Been saving up to buy/build myself a kegerator system, instead I've decided to use those funds to buy a new AG setup. I've ordered a Kettle, Mash Tun, Mash Pattle, etc. I've ordered or have everything but a HLT(I will buy or build one before next brew day, trying to find one at a discount first).

So given all of this, is there any advice for essentially a first time AG brew ? Any equipment you might suggest that is invaluable for a new AG brewer?

Sure! Cancel your order and start over. Buy a pot that is big enough to do a full volume, no sparge BIAB (10 gallons should work fine). Take the money you save and put it toward your kegerator.

If you still want to go to the traditional system, forget the HLT. You don't need it. Cold water sparges will get you nearly the same efficiency.

 

[Pariah3j]

Thanks for the responses - I do appreciate the advice. I guess I was more looking for words of wisdom. Mistakes that are common to make when you first start AG that could be avoided, that kind of thing.

@Staticsouls - I've considered this, might do this for now, trying to future proof a little bit, I went 15 gal kettle, 10gal mash tun - I'm only doing 5g now but want to try moving up to 10g once I have the process down.

@jr72023 - Good advice, I have sanitation down, I've brewed 7 or 8 extract kits without ever getting an infection or having any issues. I have a couple of good thermometers that seem to be spot on, but I may have to double check/verify that - wouldn't have thought about them being off causing problems.

@55x11 - basically I just bought one of the cooler Mash Tuns for just a little more then what I had priced being able to build it myself and it came w/ a false bottom.
Kettle - went with a 15g so I can grow with it. I've been looking at upgrading it for a while, swapping to AG basically forced my hand.
Mash Paddle - sigh yes I know how to spell (mostly) I swear it ! - I do have a large SS spoon, works well but as I was stirring my BIAB I realized with alot of grain, it may not be able to handle it. So more of a future proofing thing, went ahead and got a SS paddle.
And yes, Kegerator is still in the works, just might have be a Christmas present or something along those lines.

@RM-MN - No thanks, BIAB for me was more an experiment so I could dip my toe in water of AG so to speak. Already bought a 15g kettle and the other equipment. I will still get a kegerator but it'll just be a little longer.

You say that cold water sparge works - but why is that not the standard if its the same ? Techniques are usually developed and used for a reason. I ask because this is the first time I've heard this.

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks for the responses - I do appreciate the advice. I guess I was more looking for words of wisdom. Mistakes that are common to make when you first start AG that could be avoided, that kind of thing.

@Staticsouls - I've considered this, might do this for now, trying to future proof a little bit, I went 15 gal kettle, 10gal mash tun - I'm only doing 5g now but want to try moving up to 10g once I have the process down.

@jr72023 - Good advice, I have sanitation down, I've brewed 7 or 8 extract kits without ever getting an infection or having any issues. I have a couple of good thermometers that seem to be spot on, but I may have to double check/verify that - wouldn't have thought about them being off causing problems.

@55x11 - basically I just bought one of the cooler Mash Tuns for just a little more then what I had priced being able to build it myself and it came w/ a false bottom.
Kettle - went with a 15g so I can grow with it. I've been looking at upgrading it for a while, swapping to AG basically forced my hand.
Mash Paddle - sigh yes I know how to spell (mostly) I swear it ! - I do have a large SS spoon, works well but as I was stirring my BIAB I realized with alot of grain, it may not be able to handle it. So more of a future proofing thing, went ahead and got a SS paddle.
And yes, Kegerator is still in the works, just might have be a Christmas present or something along those lines.

@RM-MN - No thanks, BIAB for me was more an experiment so I could dip my toe in water of AG so to speak. Already bought a 15g kettle and the other equipment. I will still get a kegerator but it'll just be a little longer.

You say that cold water sparge works - but why is that not the standard if its the same ? Techniques are usually developed and used for a reason. I ask because this is the first time I've heard this.

The reason that the cold water sparge isn't standard is the same as why people still use mash tuns and HLT's. its tradition. It will take years for people to find out that as soon as you add cold water to the saturated grains the water warms to the point that there is little additional dissolving of the sugars by using hot water. The benefit to using the hot water is your wort is a little hotter so you get to boil a few seconds sooner.

BIAB is not traditional but it is just as effective as a mash tun with a false bottom or maybe even more. Many of us that do the BIAB get upwards of 80% efficiency (brewhouse, not just conversion) and can do so in half an hour(requires a fine crush to get full conversion). That cuts out a lot of time. Pulling the bag and suspending it over the mash tun which is sitting on the burner allows us the opportunity to start heating immediately too. That also can reduce the time as we don't have to wait on the sparge.

 

[vince805]

The OP wants to do a 3 vessel system, no need to try to sway him to BIAB since he already made purchases.

One thing you do need to consider before doing a 10 gallon batch is if your grain bill will fit in a 10 gallon cooler. I've only done one 10 gallon batch and my keggle was filled pretty high, it was a wheat though.

Other than that I agree with the recommendation to use your existing kettle as HLT for now. Once you use it you'll know if you need to go bigger or not. That's the fun, using what you have and then deciding what you want instead!

 

[RM-MN]

The OP wants to do a 3 vessel system, no need to try to sway him to BIAB since he already made purchases.

!

I guess you are right and he's the only one that will ever read this.:rockin:

 

[TurnipGreen]

Some advise.

Take notes on everything. Temperatures, volumes of water going into and out of mash tun, temps of fermentation,

Taste everything at every stage. Fast the grains, the sweet sort green beer. See if you can identify those flavors in the final product.

 

[mongoose33]

The reason that the cold water sparge isn't standard is the same as why people still use mash tuns and HLT's. its tradition. It will take years for people to find out that as soon as you add cold water to the saturated grains the water warms to the point that there is little additional dissolving of the sugars by using hot water. The benefit to using the hot water is your wort is a little hotter so you get to boil a few seconds sooner.

It's more than a few seconds faster, unless you have some sort of rocket stove. It probably shaves 15 minutes off the time if not more.

That said, there was an exbeeriment that showed no difference between cool water sparge and hot water sparge: http://brulosophy.com/2016/04/11/sparge-temperature-pt-1-standard-vs-cool-exbeeriment-results/

I do the traditional mash, not because of any bias against BIAB, but because I lucked into a mash tun before I had a chance to buy a larger brew kettle for the BIAB. I was in fact ready to head that way.

In my system, my boil kettle doubles as the HLT. While the mash is doing its thing, I'm heating the sparge water in the kettle. When it comes time to draw off the first runnings, I draw them into a spare 5-gallon kettle I have. When I get to dribs and drabs, I close the valve, add the sparge water for my batch sparge, stir it, then dump the small kettle of first runnings into the boil kettle and start it boiling. So it can be done w/o a HLT.

While I'm likely to still heat up the sparge water just to get it hotter so I can get to the boil sooner, I'm not going to worry so much about it being just about 168 degrees. I have to heat that water up sooner or later, might as well heat it while the mash is ongoing.

 

[55x11]

The reason that the cold water sparge isn't standard is the same as why people still use mash tuns and HLT's. its tradition. It will take years for people to find out that as soon as you add cold water to the saturated grains the water warms to the point that there is little additional dissolving of the sugars by using hot water. The benefit to using the hot water is your wort is a little hotter so you get to boil a few seconds sooner.

BIAB is not traditional but it is just as effective as a mash tun with a false bottom or maybe even more. Many of us that do the BIAB get upwards of 80% efficiency (brewhouse, not just conversion) and can do so in half an hour(requires a fine crush to get full conversion). That cuts out a lot of time. Pulling the bag and suspending it over the mash tun which is sitting on the burner allows us the opportunity to start heating immediately too. That also can reduce the time as we don't have to wait on the sparge.

I agree on sparge with cold water. You are just rinsing sugars, any temperature water will work. For me, cold water may be safer but doesn't save much time as you have to then heat the cold wort up to boiling point. So boiling water while you do 1st runnings and then sparging quickly with that water saves more time actually.

I am tired of hearing about efficiency. Just add a pound or two of US 2 row for $0.99 per pound and not obsess about double-crushing or chasing down those few percentage points.

BIAB saves a lot of space (one less vessel!) and can get sufficient efficiency.
It could also save some time (no sparging).

To me the advantages of dedicated cooler for mashtun is being able to walk away during mashing and not worry about temperature control (it is my understanding most people would still have heat source on, turned way down, for BIAB - and I wouldn't be comfortable leaving a flame source without near-constant supervision). With mashtun I often mash overnight, which saves a lot of time (boil water in the evening while watching the show, then mash in, go to bed. Wake up, start boiling sparge water and draining while having coffee/breakfast, then boil the wort, cool, pitch - done!).

You can also do longer mashes, 2+ hours and not worry about it getting too cold and gelatin-like. On this July 4th I mashed in, then went to city parade/festival with family and neighbors, didn't come back for 5 hours (took longer than expected), then finished the boil, no problem. Wouldn't be able to do this with BIAB, probably.

Another advantage of dedicated mashtun is total volume/grain bill. I have recently done 15G batch of IPA (later split into 3 fermentors using different yeasts and dry hops) - which involved ~40lb of grain. Worked just fine with mashtun, but wouldn't work with BIAB - probably not even 20lbs of grain, but now wet grain (which will add another - what, 10 lbs?). Need a pulley and even then, it gets too cumbersome.

I think if you know you will only make 5G batches and not go super high on gravity, BIAB is fine. But for bigger batches or bigger bears, mashtun works better. It cost about $60 and gives you those options. You can still go to BIAB for smaller beers or batches.

 

[Pariah3j]

Thanks yall - I appreciate all the feed back. Knowing about the cold water sparging will save me alot of effort. I was under the impression that there was a chemistry reason for the warm sparge, like it did something to the sugar chains or pulling different sugar chains out, something along those lines.