racking to carboy

[shawnstr71]

I recently brewed my first batch. It was a belgian white. The recipe called for ten days in the primary and 14 in the carboy. Tomorrow will be day 10 and I'm still getting bubbles in the airlock about every 30 sec.s. 'y question is, is it ok to rack to secondary with that much fermentation still going?

 

[rpe290]

I recently brewed my first batch. It was a belgian white. The recipe called for ten days in the primary and 14 in the carboy. Tomorrow will be day 10 and I'm still getting bubbles in the airlock about every 30 sec.s. 'y question is, is it ok to rack to secondary with that much fermentation still going?

Don't bother racking to secondary, start checking your final gravity every day and bottle after its been stable 3 days.

 

[kh54s10]

If you want to rack to a secondary, which is really only for clearing the beer a little more, forget the timetable and get a hydrometer and take a gravity reading. Wait 2 days then take another reading. If they are both the same and close to the predicted final gravity then you can transfer.

Or, skip the secondary and let the fermentation finish. At least 10 days and up to a month or more. Take the gravity readings then bottle. I usually ferment for 3 weeks then package.

 

[shawnstr71]

Thankyou for the advise. I would like to rack the brew as its a wheat, just to clear it up a bit. Sould I do a hydrometer test 1st? Or, rack it and test it after a few days for 2 or 3 days. I really appreciate the help

 

[kombat]

I would like to rack the brew as its a wheat, just to clear it up a bit.

Wheats aren't supposed to be clear.

But to answer your question, if you're determined to rack, then don't do a gravity reading until after you've racked, and it's sat in secondary for at least several days (long enough to achieve some of your desired clearing).

FYI, racking to secondary to "clear" beer is actually a myth. After fermentation slows, sediment starts to fall out of suspension and the beer begins clearing. If you rack to secondary, you're mixing all those particles back into uniform solution, and they have to start clearing all over again. At the time you rack to secondary, the top half/third/whatever of the beer might already be relatively clear.

 

[shawnstr71]

Thankyou again. I think on the next batch, I will skip racking. Just trying to feel my way through the 1st cpl. I have gotton a lot of different opinions. What u say about the clearing makes sence. I will try it differently next time. Whew! So much info so little experience! Lol

 

[rpe290]

Thankyou again. I think on the next batch, I will skip racking. Just trying to feel my way through the 1st cpl. I have gotton a lot of different opinions. What u say about the clearing makes sence. I will try it differently next time. Whew! So much info so little experience! Lol

Unless you have loads of crappy dead yeast (maybe, with old, sprinkled-on dry yeast OR a tall conical), the main thing you do when racking to secondary is introduce oxygen to your beer and cause it to stale quicker. It can be useful for other things such as finings, dry hop, and fruit/vanilla addition techniques, however...

 

[J187]

I'm a big proponent of not even starting to check gravity until after 10 days, and personally, I don't think I've ever checked until 14+... I like to give the yeast time to not only ferment, but clean up. The two week period works well for me. Then I check the gravity - I try to avoid checking too many times whereas I don't want to lose much beer to the samples. I also never secondary unless doing fruit or dry hopping. Good luck with your wheat! Hell, I hope it's hazy

 

[Dylan42]

Okay im a noob here. I have brewed four batches, and all but one have turned out bad. I lost one to a pinhole in my keg.
So my question in relation to racking to a secondary is, how long can the wort sit on that yeast cake in the primary? Will it start to get off flavors from the suspended yeast after ten days?

 

[Demus]

Okay im a noob here. I have brewed four batches, and all but one have turned out bad. I lost one to a pinhole in my keg.
So my question in relation to racking to a secondary is, how long can the wort sit on that yeast cake in the primary? Will it start to get off flavors from the suspended yeast after ten days?

Yeast autolysis, the fancy term for dormant yeast dying off and decaying, takes months under normal conditions. In fact, I've heard tons of stories of forgotten carboys left for 6 months or more that made excellent beer. Off flavors from yeast are common, but NOT from being left too long on primary. Temperature control during fermentation is exponentially more important to beer flavor than how long you leave it in this or that vessel.
FACTS about transfer to secondary:
-the process takes time and equipment
-the process introduces possibility for infection or oxidation.
-the process removes the beer from a large percentage of trub and settled yeast.
THEORIES about transfer to secondary:
-removing the beer from settled yeast and trub helps it clear.
-prevents off flavors from decaying yeast (autolysis) and trub.
-is "required" for post ferment additions for things like dry hops, fruit or oak.

Many many debates exist on this topic. You ultimately must decide for yourself. My personal opinion is that the vast majority of home brewers mess with their beer WAY too much. Keep the yeast happily temperature controlled, and LEAVE IT ALONE!!!! When you think it's ready, wait another week. This advice will improve your beer more than a secondary...

 

[Dylan42]

Yeast autolysis, the fancy term for dormant yeast dying off and decaying, takes months under normal conditions. In fact, I've heard tons of stories of forgotten carboys left for 6 months or more that made excellent beer. Off flavors from yeast are common, but NOT from being left too long on primary. Temperature control during fermentation is exponentially more important to beer flavor than how long you leave it in this or that vessel.
FACTS about transfer to secondary:
-the process takes time and equipment
-the process introduces possibility for infection or oxidation.
-the process removes the beer from a large percentage of trub and settled yeast.
THEORIES about transfer to secondary:
-removing the beer from settled yeast and trub helps it clear.
-prevents off flavors from decaying yeast (autolysis) and trub.
-is "required" for post ferment additions for things like dry hops, fruit or oak.

Many many debates exist on this topic. You ultimately must decide for yourself. My personal opinion is that the vast majority of home brewers mess with their beer WAY too much. Keep the yeast happily temperature controlled, and LEAVE IT ALONE!!!! When you think it's ready, wait another week. This advice will improve your beer more than a secondary...

Thanks ill keep it in the primary next time. Your right I think too high of temps ruined my last two. I got a cool brewing fermentation bag on the way.

 

[Demus]

extra fridge on craig's list, 50 to $100

 

[BansheeRider]

Thanks ill keep it in the primary next time. Your right I think too high of temps ruined my last two. I got a cool brewing fermentation bag on the way.

Funny how everybody says not to use a secondary. The fact is they have used a secondary in the past and determined that a secondary is unnecessary unless you're ageing, dry hopping, or adding adjuncts. Because you are a new brewer I say go ahead and use a secondary as often as you'd like. Then do a few batches without using one, then you can decide yourself if a secondary is useful for all batches or not. Do some research and take into account what reputable brewers have to say on the topic. I personally use a secondary for complex beers, ageing, dry hopping, adding fruits and such, or if I need my primary fermentor for another batch.

 

[freisste]

The main thing you do when racking to secondary is introduce oxygen to your beer and cause it to stale quicker.

False. Good racking technique will not affect beer. If it did, no one would rack to a bottling bucket either.

Whether you want to secondary or not is a personal decision. Necessary? Usually not. Completely useless? Usually not. Decide for yourself.

 

[rpe290]

False. Good racking technique will not affect beer. If it did, no one would rack to a bottling bucket either.

Whether you want to secondary or not is a personal decision. Necessary? Usually not. Completely useless? Usually not. Decide for yourself.

My caveat:

A new brewer is doing it, I am not going to assume a new brewer asking this question is practicing good technique or especially has a CO2 tank to flood with.

Besides, "O2 and bottling bucket" situation isn't as much a concern given the bottle condition fermentation will take most/all of that up.

 

[shawnstr71]

If homebrewtalk had a like button...i'd like this lol. The feed back has been awesome! I'm gonna rack my 1st batch and try just 1 fermenter on the brew I'm doin this wknd. Just to try both. Seems like the majority rules in favor of just fermenting in the primary. Which I like cuz u getta. Drink ur beer sooner! Booyah

 

[BansheeRider]

If homebrewtalk had a like button...i'd like this lol. The feed back has been awesome! I'm gonna rack my 1st batch and try just 1 fermenter on the brew I'm doin this wknd. Just to try both. Seems like the majority rules in favor of just fermenting in the primary. Which I like cuz u getta. Drink ur beer sooner! Booyah

Not sooner. You just leave it in primary longer than 10 days. When I use just a primary I leave it for a month. If I plan on using a secondary I will rack in 2-3 weeks.

 

[freisste]

My caveat:

A new brewer is doing it, I am not going to assume a new brewer asking this question is practicing good technique or especially has a CO2 tank to flood with.

Besides, "O2 and bottling bucket" situation isn't as much a concern given the bottle condition fermentation will take most/all of that up.

Fair enough. For the record, I almost always use primary only. I just have a problem with the "secondary introduces infection and oxidation" argument because when done properly the risks are minimal. I advocate doing whatever one wishes with his own brews.

 

[Demus]

Fair enough. For the record, I almost always use primary only. I just have a problem with the "secondary introduces infection and oxidation" argument because when done properly the risks are minimal. I advocate doing whatever one wishes with his own brews.

It's the "when done properly" part that makes me advise newer brewers to skip the secondary. From older books and kit instructions new brewers are lead to believe a transfer to a second vessel is a REQUIRED step in the process of making beer. I like to set them up for success and simplify the whole process by pointing out that excellent beer can be made in one fermenter.

 

[durbo]

I have an imperial stout going at the moment. I racked it to secondary after two weeks to add cocoa powder for flavouring and it has been in secondary for a week. The gravity has been stable since I racked to secondary, is a week long enough or should I give it another? Does it really matter if the gravity is stable?

 

[BansheeRider]

I have an imperial stout going at the moment. I racked it to secondary after two weeks to add cocoa powder for flavouring and it has been in secondary for a week. The gravity has been stable since I racked to secondary, is a week long enough or should I give it another? Does it really matter if the gravity is stable?

Gravity should be stable before racking to secondary. That way you don't have to worry about a stalled fermentation. Always make sure you've reached FG before racking.

 

[durbo]

Sorry that's was misleading. Gravity was stable after primary, my question was more to do with length in the secondary. Does it really matter? What are the effects of short vs longer time in secondary?

 

[Demus]

Sorry that's was misleading. Gravity was stable after primary, my question was more to do with length in the secondary. Does it really matter? What are the effects of short vs longer time in secondary?

Many brewers, myself included, skip secondary altogether. Whatever benefit you are trying to achieve from secondary would be neutralized if you only do it for a short time. If you want a short secondary, just skip it!

 

[eric19312]

I've bought into the primary only except for long aging beers with good results.

But recently started working on my finishing process and have found secondary can be useful.

First thing I've started doing is cold crashing. Was recommended by an experienced home brewer who noted the amount of yeast sediment in my bottles. I can confirm that a few days at close to 35F drops a lot of stuff and I ended up dramatically reducing amount of yeast reaching the bottles.

But if you cold crash in primary with 1.5 to 2 gal headspace you are going to get suck back. What are you sucking back? Air...with oxygen. By racking to secondary before cold crash I move beer to fermenter with very little headspace, little or no suck back.

Now that I have the beer cold, in secondary, I have added option to fine with gelatin. Dramatically clear beer that allows the colors from the malts to really pop if you are into that sort of thing.

 

[E_Marquez]

But if you cold crash in primary with 1.5 to 2 gal headspace you are going to get suck back. What are you sucking back? Air...with oxygen. .

Nice catch...

I just lucked out with cold crashing in my primary.... Was not thinking about suck back when I did it.. Lucky for me, this was the first use of my ferm chamber, and it was room temp along with the primary (72f).. A freezer is slow in getting to temp.. more so with mass inside.. that allowed my beer to come down intemp slowly... and the result was very little vacuum crated, and while it did suck in a small amount of my Starsan from the air lock.. I never broke seal.

I will always rack to secondary now, before cold crashing a batch..



As for risk this and need for special equipment that..
As my local HBS reminded me as I was regaling my desire to build system and gadget to make the process morebetter..
"Erik, they have been brewing beer since 9500 BC or so...long before CO2 tanks were around to flood buckets, long before STARSAN, racking canes and autosphions...ect
Long before refrigerated temp control... Just follow the recipe and make beer"

Systematic controls and equipment and procedures will help us avoid mistakes and many variables out there..
For some that allows a very specific and repeatable outcome..

For us new brewers it allows a higher rate of success in making drinkable beer.

 

[Demus]

As my local HBS reminded me as I was regaling my desire to build system and gadget to make the process morebetter..
"Erik, they have been brewing beer since 9500 BC or so...long before CO2 tanks were around to flood buckets, long before STARSAN, racking canes and autosphions...ect
Long before refrigerated temp control... Just follow the recipe and make beer"

I would add to your quote, long before delicious beer!

 

[E_Marquez]

I would add to your quote, long before delicious beer!

LOL, have you been reading this forum long?

In the few weeks I have,,, the number of posts made where folks have ruined perfectly good beer with all manner of modern, or custom equipment and apparatus.. is copious to say the least...

I'm all in for funner brewing, and making great beer..
The point was/is.... getting wrapped up around racking a beer to a secondary as "required" "stupid" "the only way" "waste of time" or something only new brewers do.. is simply funny to those that sit back and read the posts.

BTW.. I just racked a 4 week old beer to a secondary so I could dry hop and add a fining agent

Sorry I an new brewer, I'll learn some day,, what a waste of time it is and just start.............................buying beer at the supermarket

 

[shawnstr71]

I just took a gravity reading out of the carboy. 1.012. Normal for a wit. Gonna do another on sat and probably bottle. Shoulds took the advise u all gave me in the beginning of this thread! Tasted great...but sample was way to clear for a wit. Next time... 1 fermenter. Thanx for all ur help and advise.
Shawnstr....(newbie homebrewer)

 

[5-0]

To add to this, I've had an IPA in primary for 6 days and. The directions for the kit says 4-7 days in primary, transfer to secondary, add dry hop, ferment for 4-7 more days, then bottle. Do these times seem short? I plan on at least a week for primary and secondary.

This is my first batch (sans Mr. Beer) as well and I'm wanting it to turn out well.

Thanks!

 

[BansheeRider]

To add to this, I've had an IPA in primary for 6 days and. The directions for the kit says 4-7 days in primary, transfer to secondary, add dry hop, ferment for 4-7 more days, then bottle. Do these times seem short? I plan on at least a week for primary and secondary.

This is my first batch (sans Mr. Beer) as well and I'm wanting it to turn out well.

Thanks!

Primary 3 weeks, check FG twice over 3 days. Rack to secondary and dry hop for 7-10 days, then keg/bottle.

 

[Demus]

We need to keep in mind kit instructions are designed for people who know nothing about beer. If if you follow them exactly, you will make beer. That does NOT mean they represent the BEST way brew a particular batch. Also, there are waaaay too many variables in a ferment for anyone to give an exact time frame. It takes how much time it takes!

 

[5-0]

Primary 3 weeks, check FG twice over 3 days. Rack to secondary and dry hop for 7-10 days, then keg/bottle.

Sounds great, thanks!

 

[5-0]

We need to keep in mind kit instructions are designed for people who know nothing about beer. If if you follow them exactly, you will make beer. That does NOT mean they represent the BEST way brew a particular batch. Also, there are waaaay too many variables in a ferment for anyone to give an exact time frame. It takes how much time it takes!

I figured so, thanks for the input.

 

[Rugrad02]

I don't usually mess with doing a secondary but I agree that there are times when doing one may be necessary.

If you start a beer off with a saccharomyces yeast and later want to add a Brett strain, racking to secondary may be beneficial. White Labs recommends doing it for their Brett Brux strain. The Brett benefits from the oxygen introduced by racking to secondary. Of course this would not be necessary for 100% Brett beers as you would aerate the wort prior to fermentation.

 

[fgjnxhmhhu]

If you want to rack to a secondary

 

[Demus]

I don't usually mess with doing a secondary but I agree that there are times when doing one may be necessary.
.

No, it's never NECESSARY. It may have some benefit or serve some purpose in some cases, but it's NEVER a necessary step it the brewing process...

 

[BonzoAPD]

I personally like to do a secondary even though most on here say it is not necessary. I find that my beers are much clearer doing a secondary than not. Also I find less sediment at the bottom of my bottles. And third benefit my beers have been tasting even better (although this could be because I am a new brewer and learn with each batch under my belt)

 

[Rugrad02]

No, it's never NECESSARY. It may have some benefit or serve some purpose in some cases, but it's NEVER a necessary step it the brewing process...

Perhaps "beneficial" would have been a more appropriate word. I apologize that the use of "necessary" bothered you in some way.

 

[Demus]

Not bothered, but since this is the beginners forum I thought it was important to clarify...