Question about Carbonate reducing solution

[MattGuk]

Hi all, I'm starting to slowly get my head around water chemistry.
I brew using tap water which is good for drinking.
I always use Camden tabs to treat for chlorine/chloramine and did use lactic to help drop PH.
I know people say to use RO or distilled, but over here in UK, that stuff is expensive.
I am going to be using Carbonate reducing solution from now on to help drop the Alk without imparting any flavor, but does anybody know if this will lower my overall Calcium levels?
As an average I have about 88ppm from my water report that somebody helped figure out as it isn't actually stated.
My Alk in CaCO3 has an average of 155.
I am brewing a cream ale this week and plan on using CRS to help drop my Alk

in the region of about 40ppm.
I probably sound so stupid asking this question, but using the screenshot, I assume for a mash of 20ltr I would use approx 13ml of this stuff?
I am terrible at math, please don't judge me lol.

 

[cire]

CRS, commercially known as AMS, does not reduce calcium levels. It is probably the most common means in British Breweries to reduce alkalinity in brewing liquor.

This Water Calculator will determine the required volume for various styles.

A kit, like this can determine alkalinity before and after treatment with CRS.

 

[MattGuk]

Thanks for that mate, I have used the Salifert KH in the past and found it useful, that calculator is very helpful indeed.

Cheers

 

[mabrungard]

Careful! CRS does add flavor. With a high dose, it adds minerality. That may not be ideal for all beers.

The good thing is that 155 ppm alkalinity as CaCO3 isn’t that terribly high and the dose may be acceptable for CRS. I wouldn’t abandon lactic acid entirely since it can be relatively flavorless at low dosage too.

 

[MattGuk]

I have used lactic a couple of times and the last time I used lactic on a cream ale, I used 6ml in 18ltr of water and I could taste quite a tang.
I won't abandon it altogether, just thought I would see if CRS may give me a little less tang than I can detect with lactic.

Cheers

 

[cire]

I have used lactic a couple of times and the last time I used lactic on a cream ale, I used 6ml in 18ltr of water and I could taste quite a tang.
I won't abandon it altogether, just thought I would see if CRS may give me a little less tang than I can detect with lactic.

Cheers

Your calculation for CRS additions are correct. A simple way to check taste is add 0.3 ml CRS to 500 ml of your water and stir well to release the CO2. Taste in comparison to that using lactic acid for an equal reduction in alkalinity.

 

[MattGuk]

Your calculation for CRS additions are correct. A simple way to check taste is add 0.3 ml CRS to 500 ml of your water and stir well to release the CO2. Taste in comparison to that using lactic acid for an equal reduction in alkalinity.

Thanks very much for your help here, I used CRS years ago and found that it worked really well, however I was always wondered if it reduced calcium too, but now I know lol.
I love this site, everybody is so helpful.
Thanks

 

[MattGuk]

Also, does Lactic reduce Alkalinity as effectively as something like CRS?
Obviously it all depends on different water sources, but for one like mine, I imagine I would have to use a lot of lactic to reduce it sufficiently when using mostly pale malt and light adjuncts.
Like I say, I used it before in a cream ale, only 6ml but I could really taste it, and my mash pH was about 5.7, so it didn't quite bring it down enough, had I have used more, I wonder if it had been like one of them Toxic waste sweets that almost hurt my tongue haha.

 

[cire]

All acids will reduce alkalinity. The amount required depends upon their relative strength. Lactic acid is usually supplied at a strength requiring a lower quantity than CRS to reduce a similar quantity of alkalinity.

40 ppm alkalinity as CaCO3 is rather high for paler beers, so a mash pH of 5.7 might be expected. You might wish to consider reducing alkalinity further. Pale adjuncts, particularly torrified wheat, can significantly raise mash pH.

 

[Vale71]

I suspect CRS is nothing but a mix of calcium salts so it will probably increase overall calcium levels. If you don't want to add any calcium you should just do acid additions. Phosphoric acid is a good alternative to lactic and has basically no detectable taste.

 

[MattGuk]

I believe it is a blend of acids.
According to Brupaks website they recommend using another blend of stuff call DLS after CRS to increase calcium.

 

[cire]

It is a blend of acids, sulphuric and hydrochloric. It is sold as AMS to commercial breweries in units of 25 litres. Repackaged into smaller quantities it is sold as CRS from UK's homebrew shops.

Some information for AMS/CRS can be found in this link. It is first choice for treating alkalinity in the majority of British breweries and has been for many years. It was a similar history for UK homebrewing until US methods with lactic acid, phosphoric acid and RO water reached our shores in more recent times.

 

[Vale71]

Do you have a link to a document that actually says what's in there? The document you linked to only mentions "sulfate and chloride" ions which could be added both with acids as well as with salts. Personally I'd be wary of adding anything to the brewing liquor without knowing what is actually in it.

 

[cire]

Do you have a link to a document that actually says what's in there? The document you linked to only mentions "sulfate and chloride" ions which could be added both with acids as well as with salts. Personally I'd be wary of adding anything to the brewing liquor without knowing what is actually in it.

I do, but can't recall where. The following is the first paragraph of their "Technical Information Sheet".

Description
AMS is a formulated blend of ready for use food grade acids used to reduce alkalinity and to increase desirable ions in product waters. It is especially used in the brewing industry as a liquor treatment.

Later is the following.

35ml of AMS per hl of this water reduces the alkalinity by 64 mg/litre (ppm) and increases chloride levels by 22.5 mg/litre (ppm) and sulphate levels by 31 mg/litre (ppm).

From this it can be determined to be an equi-normal mix of hydrochloric amd sulphuric acids.

 

[MattGuk]

My CRS/AMS say contains Sulphuric acid.
I used it in the past and it really does works well at reducing the Alkalinity as tested by the Salifert KH kit.

 

[cire]

Safety data sheet with contents.

https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/AMS-SDS-27.10.17.pdf

 

[MattGuk]

So, that calculator really over estimates the amount of CRS needed, I put my Alkalinity into the calculator as measure with Salifert, which said I need 20.7ml.
Took a pH sample of just the water with CRS and it measures 4.5ph.
Then rechecked the alkalinity with the Salifert kit, that read as no Alkalinity.
So, I have not removed about 6ltr of the 30ltrs of treated water and replaced with plain tap water, now I have an Alkalinity reading of 19 as Caco3 and a pH of 5.6, think I may need to add another 1ltr of tap water so my mash won't go too low from 5.6 when adding the grains.

 

[cire]

So, that calculator really over estimates the amount of CRS needed, I put my Alkalinity into the calculator as measure with Salifert, which said I need 20.7ml.
Took a pH sample of just the water with CRS and it measures 4.5ph.
Then rechecked the alkalinity with the Salifert kit, that read as no Alkalinity.
So, I have not removed about 6ltr of the 30ltrs of treated water and replaced with plain tap water, now I have an Alkalinity reading of 19 as Caco3 and a pH of 5.6, think I may need to add another 1ltr of tap water so my mash won't go too low from 5.6 when adding the grains.

The algorith used in that calculator is correct for the information supplied by the manufacturer of AMS/CRS.

The calculator advises 20.7 ml of CRS for 30 litres of liquor with an alkalinity of 152 ppm as CaCO3.
I expect the Salifert indicator to show a weak pink at pH 4.5 and a stronger pink at pH 4.4 with the end point somewhere between those two in titrated water with initial alkalinity of 152 ppm. Any difference in alkalinity between those two would be minuscule.
6 litres at alkalinity 152 ppm added to 24 litres with no alkalinity should produce 30 litres with alkalinity of 30.4 ppm, not 19 as you found. I would have expected your water titrated to 19 ppm alkalinity to measure nearer pH 5.1 while that at pH 5.6 possibly containing >30ppm alkalinity. However, dissolved CO2 increases pH measurements, the risk always attached to a single pH measurement of brewing liquor. Did you stir the liquor well enough to release all the CO2 produced during the reaction with CRS and ensure the acids mix completely with the liquor?

I cannot adequately explain your findings, but wonder if the CRS is stronger than specified. If the acid is old and left open for long periods, water will evaporate to strengthen the remainder.

Might I suggest you repeat what you did on a smaller scale to see if your findings are confirmed? Your methods are commendable.

 

[MattGuk]

I will try what you have suggested.
as I side note, after draining some of my treated water and replacing with tap, I brewed today ( just finished ) and my mash pH after 10 mins was 5.3 so I must have screwed up somewhere when testing the water.

 

[MattGuk]

Also decided to do this as no sparge, bit of an odd day really.
Everything has gone well, higher pre boil gravity than I anticipated based on 72%, no idea what my starting gravity is as just broke my hydrometer before I could get one.
Pre boil was 1.044 at 27ltrs and expected was 1.040, 21ltrs in the fermenter at no idea what the gravity is lol

 

[cire]

Also decided to do this as no sparge, bit of an odd day really.
Everything has gone well, higher pre boil gravity than I anticipated based on 72%, no idea what my starting gravity is as just broke my hydrometer before I could get one.
Pre boil was 1.044 at 27ltrs and expected was 1.040, 21ltrs in the fermenter at no idea what the gravity is lol

A good result it seems.

All else equal, brewing with full liquor volume in the mash results in higher pH and lower efficiency compared to a standard mash ratio with sparge.

There is no harm in taking a pH reading 10 minutes into the mash, all adds to knowledge. However, a more important reading is that of wort at run off. This assumes the duration of the mash is not been spent adjusting mash pH to that desired. I usually mash for 90 minutes and take a pH reading about the halfway point. This allows time to adjust the sparge liquor to avoid pH of late runnings rising above pH 5.6.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I've determined that AMS (CRS) has an acid strength of right close to 3.66 mEq/mL. Since both acids found within are classified as strong acids, this strength holds true for any sensible targeted pH to be used for brewing purposes.

As an aside, and FWIW, for most practical brewing purposes, 30% Phosphoric Acid can be presumed to have essentially the same relative acid strength as AMS (CRS), albeit that for Phosphoric Acid (since it is not classified as a strong acid) there is a small degree of acid strength variability with respect to targeted mash pH. 30% Phosphoric Acid's strength is 3.748 mEq/mL if targeting a pH of 5.8, and 3.638 mEq/mL if targeting 5.1 pH. It is nigh on precisely 3.66 mEq/mL for a pH target of 5.343. For the most common target of 5.4 pH it's strength is 3.667 mEq/mL. Using CRS data for 30% Phosphoric Acid (or visa-versa) will get you close enough.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If for example you have 30L of water with 150 mg/L (ppm) Alkalinity (as CaCO3), its total mEq's of base (or caustic) is computed as:

30L*(150/50.04345) = 89.922 mEq

To neutralize this water to a pH of ~4.3 (the requisit pH juncture wherein alkalinity truly = zero) would require 24.57 mL of AMS (CRS) as follows:

89.922 mEq/3.66 mEq/mL ~= 24.57 mL of AMS (CRS)

Neutralization to ~5.4 pH (as opposed to pH 4.3) would require ballpark 90% of this CRS, or:

24.57 mL x ~0.90 = ~22.1 mL

~22.1 mL of AMS (CRS) added to 30L of 150 mg/L Alkalinity water should get you ballpark close to pH 5.4. There is some generally small variability in this due to such generally minor things as the waters initial pH, and the fact that the 90% factor itself is only ballparking things, and lastly that Alkalinity is a consequence of a "week base" with its own relative strength variability thereby, but this method is generally good enough for most practical brewing purposes.

NOTE: For any other (actual) alkalinities or water volumes, and for a target of pH 5.4, replace the 30L and 150 mg/L example quantities seen in the first equation above with the waters actual alkalinity and volume, and then proceed to compute CRS just as per the above.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

For those wondering where the "constant" factor of 50.04345 comes from:

The molecular weight of CaCO3 = 100.0869 (and alkalinity is generally measured in relationship to, or "as CaCO3")
The valence of the Ca++ ion is 2 (which is why I display it as Ca with 2 plus signs)
The valence of the CO3-- ion is -2 [and ABS(-2)=2]

100.0869/2 = 50.04345

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I wish that AMS (CRS) was available in the USA. I can't imagine why it isn't.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

What if the case is that we want to reduce 30L of 150 mg/L Alkalinity water to 60 mg/L Alkalinity, rather than reducing it to a targeted 5.4 pH? I might add as an aside that the approach of targeting mash water mg/L alkalinity (for a particular "style" of beer) as opposed to targeting mash pH seems quite common and popular in the UK, and almost unheard of these days in the USA.

150 mg/L/50.04345 = 2.9974 mEq/L Alkalinity (initial)
60 mg/L/50.04345 = 1.199 mEq/L Alkalinity (target)

2.9974 - 1.199 = 1.7984 mEq/L of Alkalinity to be removed

1.7984 mEq/L x 30L = 53.952 mEq of total Alkalinity to be removed

53.952 mEq/3.66 mEq/mL = 14.74 mL of AMS (CRS) to be added

Answer = ~14.7 mL of AMS (CRS) (rounded)

Editing to add this disclaimer: A few of the variabilities listed above for targeting 5.4 pH still apply here, such as for the waters initial pH, and for alkalinity itself being of a weak base persuasion (with thereby incomplete dissociation issues involved here), but their impact is for most purposes rather small and generally thereby inconsequential, but in fairness to absolute truth, this must also be seen thereby as somewhat of a ballpark method approach.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Looking at this another way, as a possible proof test I just dreamed up for the verification of 3.66 mEq/mL as the acid strength of CRS:

I believe I once heard somewhere that AMS (CRS) derives 1/2 of its mEq/mL's from HCl, and the other half of its mEq/mL's from H2SO4. I have no idea as to the validity for this, or even where I heard it at.

Therefore: 3.66 mEq/mL/2 = 1.83 mEq/mL from HCL, and 1.83 mEq/mL from of SO4

MW Cl- = 35.453, Valence = 1
MW SO4-- = 96.0626, Valence = 2

35.453/1 x 1.83 = 64.88 mg/L (ppm) Cl- ion for 1 mL of CRS made up to to 1L with DI water

96.0626/2 x 1.83 = 87.90 mg/L (ppm) SO4-- ion for 1 mL of CRS made up to 1L with DI water

If in fact 1 mL of CRS made up to 1L yields a measured 64.88 mg/L (ppm) Cl-, and 87.90 mg/L (ppm) SO4--, as I think it will, or at least down right close to this, then both the presumption of 3.66 mEq/mL acid strength and the presumption of one half of mEq/mL's derived from HCl and the other half of mEq/mL's derived from H2SO4 would appear to be likely true statements. This would of course be for a perfect world blend of 'water, HCl, and H2SO4'. And we all know things blended together in the real world are never quite blended to such as perfection, so...????

 

[mabrungard]

I've pondered why a sulfuric/hydrochloric blend isn't available in the US and I think that it's because we have other less flavorful options that enable a broader brewing capability. The thing that I dislike about a CRS-like product, is the fact that you're adding both sulfate and chloride ion at some predetermined ratio and that may not fit with the beer that you're brewing. Using more neutral acids and adjusting sulfate and chloride with other salt additions does provide more latitude in our brewing.

In the UK, using CRS means that your beers might all end up with a very English and minerally flavor. That might not be your goal when you're brewing a Czech pils or Munich Helles. Be thankful that CRS isn't your only choice!

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I found the above chart for AMS at "The Malt Miller": Sterilisers, Chemicals and Sundries - AMS (CRS) 500ml

Let's check it against my presumptions, by using the last column from the chart.

1st presumption: 3.66 mEq/mL Acid Strength
(18.4 x 3.66 x 50.04345)/10 = 337.01261 mg/L of Alkalinity reduction.
The chart says 337
Therefore Presumption #1 = TRUE

2nd presumption: 64.88 mg/L (ppm) Cl- ion for 1 mL of CRS made up to to 1L with DI water
(18.4 x 64.88)/10 = 119.3792 mg/L Cl-
The chart says 118.4 mg/L Cl-
Therefore the presumption is off by about 0.82%

3rd presumption: 87.90 mg/L (ppm) SO4-- ion for 1 mL of CRS made up to 1L with DI water
(18.4 x 87.90)/10 = 161.736 mg/L SO4--
The chart says 163.3 mg/L SO4--
Therefore the presumption is off by about 0.97%

Conclusion: The acid strength is indeed 3.66 mEq/mL, but the particular lot of AMS solution tested to generate this chart was not quite a perfect 50:50 blend of HCl and H2SO4 by mEq's (although this may still indeed have been fully the original intent).

 

[Vale71]

One should also keep in mind that we don't really know whether sulfuric/hydrocloric acids are indeed the only ingredients. They are the only ones listed in the SDS because they have a known toxicity. If there are any salts such as CaCL2 in the mix we wouldn't find them listed there since they have no known toxicity. Again, personally I'd be wary of using any water additive I don't know the exact composition of, considering that mixing up your own ingredients is very easy, offers you greater control and is probably cheaper as well if you buy them in bulk and without a fancy name.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

---------------------

One should also keep in mind that we don't really know whether sulfuric/hydrocloric acids are indeed the only ingredients. They are the only ones listed in the SDS because they have a known toxicity. If there are any salts such as CaCL2 in the mix we wouldn't find them listed there since they have no known toxicity. Again, personally I'd be wary of using any water additive I don't know the exact composition of, considering that mixing up your own ingredients is very easy, offers you greater control and is probably cheaper as well if you buy them in bulk and without a fancy name.

I'd be a bit more inclined to believe that the tested lot came up a wee bit short of 3.66 mEq/mL in acid strength off the manufacturing line, so a small amount of additional HCl (only) was added to bring it right up to the targeted strength. This small adjustment had the dual effect of slightly elevating the Cl- ion content and slightly suppressing the SO4-- ion content. In either case no error greater than 1% was found within my presumptions. I'd call that a big win for their validity.

 

[cire]

I've found a couple of earlier .pdf files for AMS, but unsure if they will upload with this posting. They have.

The product predates decimalisation in UK and conversion from earlier units have consistently incurred some errors.

The company has supplied water treatments to breweries since 1887.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I've found a couple of earlier .pdf files for AMS, but unsure if they will upload with this posting. They have.

The product predates decimalisation in UK and conversion from earlier units have consistently incurred some errors.

The company has supplied water treatments to breweries since 1887.

It seems from this much earlier era's CRS Tech Sheet that at one time CRS was noticeably a bit stronger than it is today. Closer to perhaps around 3.83 mEq/mL Acid Strength on an admittedly rapid fire check.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I wonder if at some juncture the manufacturer of AMS made the decision to reduce and thereby normalize its acid strength more closely to that of 30% Phosphoric Acid and thereby arrive at 3.66 mEq/mL, or if it is merely a fluke and random occurrence that the two are so close in mEq/mL acid strength today?

A worst case scenario would be that more than one manufacturer exists at present, and that the product is not fully 100% the same across different manufacturers, and instead is being sold in somewhat different acid strengths, with somewhat different deliveries of chloride and sulfate ions thereby.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

A similar concentration situation exists of course for Lactic acid and Phosphoric Acid. Some 88% Lactic Acid tests out at 90% or so as to concentration, and I've seen test reports on 85% Phosphoric Acid showing it to be on the high side of 86%.

 

[cire]

A similar concentration situation exists of course for Lactic acid and Phosphoric Acid. Some 88% Lactic Acid tests out at 90% or so as to concentration, and I've seen test reports on 85% Phosphoric Acid showing it to be on the high side of 86%.

Absolutely and the more you delve, the greater the disparity. With regularity I read here acid strengths expressed in percentage terms. But are those W/W, W/V, V/V or V/W and whatever so, at what temperature? I ignor all such values to prefer Molar or Normal at 20C, but am probably behind the times.

Incidentally, could the reason of UK use alkalinity and US preferring pH for adjustment be explained by the acids in general use. For a recent comparative mini-mash test with my water treated with phosphoric and hydrochloric acids, 2 equal volumes were titrated to pH 4.46. That particular and equal value was achieved by pure chance and considered as close to zero alkalinity as might be obtained with my table top equipment. Circumstances delayed the next part and both samples were for the next 20 hours left open to air, not under cover as during titration. Resuming the test, pH for that titrated with phosphoric had risen maginally while that with hydrochloric acid was found to read pH 5.16 and contiued to increase.

While I've read here that phosphate has little buffering power when pH is near that for a mash, it would seem by this to have vastly more buffering capacity than chloride and maybe sulphate too.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Absolutely and the more you delve, the greater the disparity. With regularity I read here acid strengths expressed in percentage terms. But are those W/W, W/V, V/V or V/W and whatever so, at what temperature? I ignor all such values to prefer Molar or Normal at 20C, but am probably behind the times.

Incidentally, could the reason of UK use alkalinity and US preferring pH for adjustment be explained by the acids in general use. For a recent comparative mini-mash test with my water treated with phosphoric and hydrochloric acids, 2 equal volumes were titrated to pH 4.46. That particular and equal value was achieved by pure chance and considered as close to zero alkalinity as might be obtained with my table top equipment. Circumstances delayed the next part and both samples were for the next 20 hours left open to air, not under cover as during titration. Resuming the test, pH for that titrated with phosphoric had risen maginally while that with hydrochloric acid was found to read pH 5.16 and contiued to increase.

While I've read here that phosphate has little buffering power when pH is near that for a mash, it would seem by this to have vastly more buffering capacity than chloride and maybe sulphate too.

Acid concentrations are (or at least should be) weight/volume. But I agree they should also have 20 degree C. Molarities and/or Normalities listed, as well as pKa's. This has me thinking that one potential reason why AMS/CRS can easily vary in relative acid strength is that no definitive strength or concentration is ever (to my knowledge at least) professed for it.

I have no explanation for the upward creep in pH that your Wort took after being acidified to 4.46 with HCl, other than to speculate that if it was still sitting upon the grist it was still actively combating against the grists pH, which presumably was basic with respect to pH 4.46, and had not yet been fully permeated by the HCl while titrating.

Due to pKa1 at pH 2.16 and pKa2 at pH 7.21, Phosphoric Acid should have close to zero ability to buffer at somewhere around pH 4.685, so you are correct to assume little to no buffering for 4.46 pH. Buffering for this acid only begins to noticeably and rapidly resume for it at roughly pH 5.7 and pH 4.1. Between these two values little buffering exists. This is a good reason why phosphate based "5.2" buffers are considered pretty much useless. If I had to guess, I'd presume that they buffer to somewhere above pH 5.7 if they buffer at all.

Of interest is that Phosphoric Acid behaves nearly as if it was monoprotic at most pH's of interest to brewing, so using its Normality as opposed to its Molarity (while simultaneously ignoring pKa's and their impact) would likely lead to huge errors (which perhaps may exist for some earlier M_____ Technical Sheets). But since buffering resumes at around 4.1 pH, beers for which mash water has been acidified with this acid may not fall as low during fermentation as for an identical beer for which CRS (or some other acids) was (were) used. That might be one to research for the younger and more ambitiously energetic among us.

 

[cire]

With all sincerity I can say of all the brewing related acids I've used, none is more consistent than AMS. Many individual acids are supplied at a quoted minimum assay. At one time I had a copy of the manufacturing specification for AMS and will post it here if it is found, but every batch of AMS/CRS I've measured has suggested their QC has always been good. Note too that in UK acid is added to the liquor before mashing, giving chance to check its influence.

For every phosphate ion attaching to calcium when phosphoric acid reduces alkalinity in water, 2 further are added to that liquor. Its buffering power can be three time that initially thought.

No grains were mixed with that titrated water, just water at pH 4.46, but the absorbed CO2 raised pH in that titrated with hydrochloric acid vastly more than that with phosphates rather than chlorides. That from hydrochloric acid acted similarly to DI water with very little buffering ability, vastly less than phosphate at whatever pH. The phosphoric acid treated water did not, an easy test to repeat might you wish.

Before the relatively recent explosion of micro breweries in both nations, UK had significantly more regional breweries than the then forty or so in USA. UK had at least one long established brewing consultancy serving the industry. It would seem from afar no equivalent provision existed in US, else it would be well known to hobbyists and we would see evidence here. Possibly each brewery kept their knowledge secret, while in UK it was a badge of honour when breweries published and spread knowledge through the Institute of Brewing and University courses.

As for what the younger might do, yes. I'm 3 parts of the way to a century.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

This highly tentative formulation attempt was cobbled together rather quickly and therefore may not be correct, and indeed thereby is seriously in need of being verified, and it would be helpful to that end if a few of you would independently verify this formulations quantities, but it appears that (subject to independent verification) an acid blend along similar lines to CRS might "potentially" be synthesized in a certified chemical lab setting as follows:

For 1 Liter:
--------------
151.54 mL of 37% HCl (certified food grade)
49.77 mL of 98% H2SO4 (certified food grade)
Sufficient verified DI water, or alternately, high quality distilled water to achieve a 1,000 mL final volume. RO water is not good enough!!!

Alternate For 1 Liter:
----------------------------
179.91 mL of 32% HCl (certified food grade)
51.62 mL of 95% H2SO4 (certified food grade)
Sufficient verified DI water, or alternately, high quality distilled water to achieve a 1,000 mL final volume. RO water is not good enough!!!

Caution, Warning, and Disclaimer: These are seriously dangerous and hazardous acids at maximum strength concentrations. Do not attempt this (post independent verification) at all unless you absolutely know what you are doing and have had training in the proper handling of these acids. Period!!! Use all imaginable safety related PPE equipment and precautions, seek or apply all necessary ventilation, and never add water to acid. This is far and away best attempted in only a full chemical laboratory setting.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

OK, lets begin the proof process for the chosen quantities in the primary formula as seen in post #39 above, to see if we get 'TRUE' computational matches to the presumptions and derived values as seen primarily in posts #27 and #29 above.

Initially we will look at Sulfuric Acid, which I had previously determined must lead to an acid strength of 1.83 mEq/mL and 87.90 mg/L SO4-- in our blend.

Givens:
MW : H2SO4 = 98.07848
Density of 98% Sulfuric Acid = 1.84 g/mL
MW : SO4--- = 96.0626
Valence = 2

First we will calculate the Molarity of 98% Sulfuric Acid in units of mmole/mL:
1000 mL x (98% x 1.84 g/mL)/98.07848 = 18.385 moles/L = 18.385 mmole/mL

Next we will convert this into normality in units of mEq/mL:
Valence x Molarity = Normality
2 x 18.385 mmole/mL = 36.77 mEq/mL

Next we will apply this formula:
Volume1 x Normality1 = Volume2 x Normality2

Therefore:
49.77 mL x 36.77 mEq/mL = 1,000 mL x Normality2
1,830.04/1000 = 1.8304 mEq/mL
= 1.83 mEq/mL (rounded) Acid Strength = TRUE

Next we must determine the mg/L of SO4-- that 1 mL of our solution of 49.77 mL of concentrated H2SO4 when diluted to 1L delivers:
49.77 mL x 1.84 g/mL x 98% = 89.745264 g of H2SO4
89.745264 g x 96.0626/98.07848 = 87.90 g SO4-- ions
And when 87.90 g of SO4-- ions are added to 1 Liter of water, one gets 87.90 g/L
And when 1 mL of this solution is extracted and added to 1L of water one delivers thereby 87.90 mg/L = TRUE

Lastly we will look at Hydrochloric Acid, which I had determined must lead to an acid strength of 1.83 mEq/mL and 64.88 mg/L Cl-in our blend.

Givens:
MW : HCl = 36.46094
Density of 37% Hydrochloric Acid = 1.19 g/mL
MW : Cl- = 35.453
Valence = 1

First we will calculate the Molarity of 37% Hydrochloric Acid in units of mmole/mL:
1000 mL x (37% x 1.19 g/mL)/36.46094 = 12.076 moles/L = 12.076 mmole/mL

Next we will convert this into normality in units of mEq/mL:
Valence x Molarity = Normality
1 x 12.076 mmole/mL = 12.076 mEq/mL

Next we will apply this formula:
Volume1 x Normality1 = Volume2 x Normality2

Therefore:
151.54 mL x 12.076 mEq/mL = 1,000 mL x Normality2
1,829.997/1000 = 1.829997 mEq/mL
= 1.83 mEq/mL (rounded) Acid Strength = TRUE

Next we must determine the mg/L of Cl- that 1 mL of of our solution of 151.54 mL of concentrated HCl when diluted to 1L delivers:
151.54 mL x 1.19 g/mL x 37% = 66.723062 g of HCl
66.723062 g x 35.453/36.46094 = 64.88 g Cl- ions
And when 64.88 g of Cl- ions are added to 1 Liter of water, one gets 64.88 g/L
And when 1 mL of this solution is extracted and added to 1L of water one delivers thereby 64.88 mg/L = TRUE

Again I ask for your assistance in verifying all of the above.