Putting 13/16" Holes in My Kettles - What's the Best Option?

[drgonzo2k2]

So for Christmas I got two very nice 16 gallon kettles, and now I'd like to ruin them by putting a 13/16" hole in each :rockin:

I will be using hand tools to do this, and looking at my options, I think I've narrowed it down to three:

1 - a 13/16" hole punch like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NQWZWU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

2 - a 13/16" hole cutter like this one

3 - a step bit like this one

Obviously they all have their pros and cons, and using a good center hole punch and getting a large enough pilot hole drilled is key; however, as this is my first time drilling into stainless, I'm looking for some opinions on which way other folks would go.

 

[b-boy]

Stainless is tough to drill. I've used a step bit, and had good results. It's cheap, but it takes a while.

I've always heard that a hole punch is the way to go, but I've never used one. Kinda pricey too.

 

[thebosson]

I just used a step bit to poke a hole in an Anvil kettle and it worked just fine. Had to ding it with a punch and drill a small hole first, but no issues from there.

 

[BroStefan]

I found a local restaurant supply company. They did it with a hole punch for -$25. This kind of equipment modification is what they do all the time.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Stainless is tough to drill. I've used a step bit, and had good results. It's cheap, but it takes a while.

I've always heard that a hole punch is the way to go, but I've never used one. Kinda pricey too.

This

 

[Jaybird]

So for Christmas I got two very nice 16 gallon kettles, and now I'd like to ruin them by putting a 13/16" hole in each :rockin:

I will be using hand tools to do this, and looking at my options, I think I've narrowed it down to three:

1 - a 13/16" hole punch like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NQWZWU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

2 - a 13/16" hole cutter like this one

3 - a step bit like this one

Obviously they all have their pros and cons, and using a good center hole punch and getting a large enough pilot hole drilled is key; however, as this is my first time drilling into stainless, I'm looking for some opinions on which way other folks would go.

We use the hole cutter in our Fab Shop all the time with great results. Each cutter head if handled well will cut 70-80 holes.

They will need a little clean up and don't mess around with them like trying to be gentle. Just drill your pilot hole, add the cutter head and drill like mad. Not too much pressure but you can absolutely press and go fast.

Cheers
Jay

 

[tofuguy]

You can use a 1/2 conduit punch also, which are cheaper than 13/16 round ones. You can always buy a used punch on Craigslist or EBay for cheap too. I did this for my elements which take a 1-1/4 inch hole.

 

[drgonzo2k2]

We use the hole cutter in our Fab Shop all the time with great results. Each cutter head if handled well will cut 70-80 holes.

They will need a little clean up and don't mess around with them like trying to be gentle. Just drill your pilot hole, add the cutter head and drill like mad. Not too much pressure but you can absolutely press and go fast.

Cheers
Jay

Thanks, Jay! I will trust your experience and go with the hole cutter.

Can you tell me if that's the same model you guys use in your shop, or would you recommend another brand?

 

[Jaybird]

I use the GreenLee 645-7/8 for the cutter and the GreenLee 645-011 for the shank.

Cheers
Jay

 

[Bobby_M]

I have a 21mm carbide hole saw for less than 20 bucks. Fastest hole ever.

 

[ChuckS1]

I have a 21mm carbide hole saw for less than 20 bucks. Fastest hole ever.

I agree with Bobby. I used a 21mm carbide hole saw on my Tall Boy kettle and it worked lke a charm. Perfect hole in less than 30 seconds. Pilot hole with a cobalt drill bit took forever, though.

 

[-CHRIS-]

Good/fast/cheap pick two.

By far, the easiest way is a high-quality 3/8" drillbit with some oil and the greenlee chassis punch. Little to no cleanup is required to start using the hole.

Second choice is a bi-metal holesaw.

I had a really poor experience using a carbide tipped holesaw drill some keggles. if you don't get perfectly parallel, it is pretty easy to chip the carbide teeth when cutting through.

If you are a masochist, step drills are slow and messy but cheap.

Chris

 

[BrewKaiser]

Stud Driven Hole punches (https://www.mcmaster.com/#hole-forming-punches/=15w9ijj) offer the cleanest edge and can be sized closest to whatever fitting diameter you have. Down side is they are relatively expensive for only a handful of holes and you need a different hole punch and die for each diameter.

Hole saws are cheap and if carbide will do quick work. Downside with these is it's difficult to size appropriately for your fitting. You'll likely end up with a diameter that's .125" or more larger than the fitting diameter you are using. You have to find the right speed and pressure and use lubricant or you'll anneal the stainless making it impossible to finish the hole.

For weldless fittings hole saws are a great cheap way to go. For welded fittings you really want to size your hole as close to the fitting diameter as possible. You almost want a hole that's no more than .005" larger than fitting diameter. The larger the hole size it's difficult to position/center your fitting for welding. If TIG welding it's just that much more material you have to move around the fitting increasing the likelihood of pitting on the sanitary side.

You can also check with local machine shops to see if they have a CNC Mill large enough to accommodate kegs to machine the holes for you. It may be more expensive than either of the above two options, but some times the smaller shops are happy to help hobbyists. You may even be able to negotiate a trade for some high quality homebrew.

I'm fortunate in that I own a fabrication company. So I have plenty of access to CNC machines when they are not busy with work.

 

[biggrizzly]

I have a 21mm carbide hole saw for less than 20 bucks. Fastest hole ever.

I just cut two holes with Bobby's 21mm carbide and it took seconds instead of minutes. I bet I could cut many more as well.

 

[RichBenn]

Having done all three, there is no comparison to the greenlee punch. Very clean hole!

I was considering selling mine(with Bobby's fitting puller), but I may have use for it for another temperature probe first.

 

[Bobby_M]

Punches make pretty nice holes but it's not very fast. You need a hole for the mandrel first. If your wall is thin, you can also have problems where a small bit of the metal gets pulled between the the punch and the die.

 

[timdillon36]

I bought a cheap Bayou and thought I'll just take it to work to put the hole in it. I work at a race car fab shop where we drill and cut 4130 and ti all the time. I thought using a roter broach would be the best bet but it didn't touch it, ended up using a step bit, didn't have a punch small enough.

After reading this thread I have some ideas for the other holes for the upgrade. I don't know why I never thought of using a ratchet strap to hold the kettle, duh, Bridgeport and a carbide end mill, any hole, any angle.

 

[timdillon36]

Stud Driven Hole punches (https://www.mcmaster.com/#hole-forming-punches/=15w9ijj) offer the cleanest edge and can be sized closest to whatever fitting diameter you have. Down side is they are relatively expensive for only a handful of holes and you need a different hole punch and die for each diameter.

Hole saws are cheap and if carbide will do quick work. Downside with these is it's difficult to size appropriately for your fitting. You'll likely end up with a diameter that's .125" or more larger than the fitting diameter you are using. You have to find the right speed and pressure and use lubricant or you'll anneal the stainless making it impossible to finish the hole.

For weldless fittings hole saws are a great cheap way to go. For welded fittings you really want to size your hole as close to the fitting diameter as possible. You almost want a hole that's no more than .005" larger than fitting diameter. The larger the hole size it's difficult to position/center your fitting for welding. If TIG welding it's just that much more material you have to move around the fitting increasing the likelihood of pitting on the sanitary side.

You can also check with local machine shops to see if they have a CNC Mill large enough to accommodate kegs to machine the holes for you. It may be more expensive than either of the above two options, but some times the smaller shops are happy to help hobbyists. You may even be able to negotiate a trade for some high quality homebrew.

I'm fortunate in that I own a fabrication company. So I have plenty of access to CNC machines when they are not busy with work.

Is a keg true enough to use external jaws on the bottom rim and a live center in the top to be able to machine a logo into the side. To shim each one true I know would be a PITA. I'm guessing it would be true enough to program holes top and bottom and at 0-360. Can you cut the bottom out with a lollipop ball end mill?

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

So for Christmas I got two very nice 16 gallon kettles, and now I'd like to ruin them by putting a 13/16" hole in each :rockin:

I will be using hand tools to do this, and looking at my options, I think I've narrowed it down to three:

1 - a 13/16" hole punch like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NQWZWU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

2 - a 13/16" hole cutter like this one

3 - a step bit like this one

Obviously they all have their pros and cons, and using a good center hole punch and getting a large enough pilot hole drilled is key; however, as this is my first time drilling into stainless, I'm looking for some opinions on which way other folks would go.

You can pick up a knockout punch set at HarborFreight for $25 before the usual 20% off coupon from Valpak.com. It has 4 punches that work pretty well for all of the sizes of holes you will be needing - 1/2 in. , 3/4 in. , 1 in. and 1-1/4 in. http://www.harborfreight.com/knockout-punch-kit-10-pc-60575.html

You will need a drill for pilot holes, one of their step bit sets works pretty well for this too and can work instead of the punches if you want - $20 - http://www.harborfreight.com/titanium-nitride-coated-high-speed-steel-step-bit-set-2-pc-69088.html

 

[drgonzo2k2]

You can pick up a knockout punch set at HarborFreight for $25 before the usual 20% off coupon from Valpak.com. It has 4 punches that work pretty well for all of the sizes of holes you will be needing - 1/2 in. , 3/4 in. , 1 in. and 1-1/4 in. http://www.harborfreight.com/knockout-punch-kit-10-pc-60575.html

You will need a drill for pilot holes, one of their step bit sets works pretty well for this too and can work instead of the punches if you want - $20 - http://www.harborfreight.com/titanium-nitride-coated-high-speed-steel-step-bit-set-2-pc-69088.html

Thanks, but I don't see either a 7/8" or 13/16" punch included in that set? So I don't think it would work for the purpose of installing 1/2" ball weldless ball valves into kettles?

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

Thanks, but I don't see either a 7/8" or 13/16" punch included in that set? So I don't think it would work for the purpose of installing 1/2" ball weldless ball valves into kettles?

I have used the punches multiple times on 1/2" valves, 1/2" thermocouples, whirlpool arms, etc and the 1" punches on elements on 5 or 6 kettles and keggles. They work just fine and don't leak with weldless connections, at all. They make nice clean holes. The 3/4" punch works for the 13/16" (that's 1/32" on each side) and the 1" for the 7/8" (that 1/16" on each side). Also, a 1/2" iD pipe fitting is 3/4" OD. You will probably have to ream out a 13/16" hole to 3/4 to make it work.

You really should at least pick up a set of step bits so you can ream the holes out if you need to.

 

[BrewKaiser]

Is a keg true enough to use external jaws on the bottom rim and a live center in the top to be able to machine a logo into the side. To shim each one true I know would be a PITA. I'm guessing it would be true enough to program holes top and bottom and at 0-360. Can you cut the bottom out with a lollipop ball end mill?

Not sure. We didn't measure roundness, but wouldn't take much to get between jaws and and run an indicator around to see how round your keg is. All three of my kegs were from different breweries, two seem to be from same manufacturer. All three were well "used" and had imperfections. I ended up spraying with thermal insulating ceramic paint (pic below) so didn't care about finish. Typically for engraving you only go .005 deep. I doubt they are round enough for typical engraving 0-360.

We stood the kegs upright in my VMX64 and used a .50 endmill to cut the bottoms out (mine is a bottom draining set up). Sung like the dickens. I would stick with .50 endmill.

Can't take credit for the straps. One of my lead machinists did the work for me.

I'm almost done with my build. I plan to do a quick build post when finished. Thought you might like the look of the black. It's Lizardskin from Mascoat.

 

[timdillon36]

I'm almost done with my build. I plan to do a quick build post when finished. Thought you might like the look of the black. It's Lizardskin from Mascoat.

I love the black and the build you have going. Only thing I don't care for is the Dimond plate, do you know how much harder it is to clean than a smooth surface?

 

[RichBenn]

You can pick up a knockout punch set at HarborFreight for $25 before the usual 20% off coupon from Valpak.com. It has 4 punches that work pretty well for all of the sizes of holes you will be needing - 1/2 in. , 3/4 in. , 1 in. and 1-1/4 in. http://www.harborfreight.com/knockout-punch-kit-10-pc-60575.html

You will need a drill for pilot holes, one of their step bit sets works pretty well for this too and can work instead of the punches if you want - $20 - http://www.harborfreight.com/titanium-nitride-coated-high-speed-steel-step-bit-set-2-pc-69088.html

From the reviews of HF punches, one should be aware that they are not the best quality. I do buy some tools from them, but any tools that require hardened steel don't hold up and do not meet the value proposition that others do.

Also, there is a difference between chassis punch sizes and conduit punch sizes. Most of the sizes I've needed are NOT electrical (conduit) sizes, which are specified upon pipe size, not hole size. The HF sets are conduit sizes.

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

From the reviews of HF punches, one should be aware that they are not the best quality. I do buy some tools from them, but any tools that require hardened steel don't hold up and do not meet the value proposition that others do.

Also, there is a difference between chassis punch sizes and conduit punch sizes. Most of the sizes I've needed are NOT electrical (conduit) sizes, which are specified upon pipe size, not hole size. The HF sets are conduit sizes.

A agree. I would not use these punches for production work. But, given that you are only going to be punching a minimum number of holes these serve the purpose at a low cost. I have used my set for at least a dozen holes though stainless and aluminum pots and they worked pretty well.

With regards to the sizes, they are well within the margin of error necessary for a weldless fitting and o-ring or gasket. I am not sure about welded, because of pitting etc. I have seen people online who have made presses.

If you are in a brew club or know someone that is, maybe you could find someone who has the punches or drills you need and could borrow. You might also check your local auto parts store (Advanced, O'Reilly, Auto-Zone). They may have a punch set to lend out. Maybe you wouldn't have to spend any money.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

So for Christmas I got two very nice 16 gallon kettles, and now I'd like to ruin them by putting a 13/16" hole in each :rockin:

I will be using hand tools to do this, and looking at my options, I think I've narrowed it down to three:

1 - a 13/16" hole punch like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NQWZWU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

2 - a 13/16" hole cutter like this one

3 - a step bit like this one

Obviously they all have their pros and cons, and using a good center hole punch and getting a large enough pilot hole drilled is key; however, as this is my first time drilling into stainless, I'm looking for some opinions on which way other folks would go.

I drilled a 7/8 inch hole in my stainless steel kettle yesterday using a Milwalkee 48-89-9204 high speed steel step drill bit. The hardest part was drilling a 1/8 inch pilot hole because the bit I choose was used. The step bit made short work, literally 5 minutes, of enlarging the hole to 7/8 inch, and deburring the hole inside and outside.

1) Mark the hole spray PAM on surface, slowly drill 1/8 inch pilot hole
2) Spray more PAM expand hole to 7/8 inch
3) Deburr both sides of the hole and wipe away shavings and PAM

 

[drgonzo2k2]

Finally cut my holes yesterday! As recommended by Jaybird, I went with this Greenlee arbor and this Greenlee hole cutter.

Could not have been easier. I was done with both kettles in about 10 minutes.

- Marked off the area I was going to be working in with painter's tape
- Used a center hole punch to make a divot in the kettle
- Used a 1/8" drill bit to make my starter hole (sprayed with PAM to lubricate)
- Used the hole cutter to finish it off (also sprayed with PAM)

It made really clean holes with no burrs at all.