Propane Burner - Need to keep ignitor button held for flame

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Aweaselkid

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I bought a used propane/turkey burner. I believe it is a Blichmann, not sure of the model.

When I went to pick it up, the seller hooked the burner up, and all worked fine.

I set it up for my first brew day last week. Everything worked perfectly while heating strike water for mashing.

After mashing, I went to relight the burner to bring wort to a boil. In the meantime, only small residual spills, no moving of the burner, no bumping or dropping it. Now, the burner won't relight.

I've tested all regulator settings, and propane tank settings, but mostly with the tank on full, and the burner's regulator mid to low (but tested all settings).

The only way the flame stays lit, is if the red button on the burner, which you press to ignite the flame, is depressed the whole time. Even after holding it for upwards of 2-3 minutes, as soon as you let go, the flame dies. This was NOT the case when I was heating water to mash. At this time, I bought a brand new tank while my wort was sitting there, thinking maybe the issue was with the propane tank. Same issue. To get through the boil, I rigged up a way to keep the red button depressed so the flame would stay, did my boil and finished everything fine. After, I felt like the new propane tank was pretty low, especially since I bought a new one to be sure that wasn't the issue

That was last week.

Second brew day, set up a brand new propane tank (third one, not used the first time), same issues. Flame is there, nice and happy, when the red button is depressed, and as soon as you let go, the flame dies. I decided to bail on the brew day until I figured this out.

My concerns are, that keeping the button depressed, which I did to get through the boil on the first day, might burn more fuel then when operating normally. Perhaps this is not correct.

The seller of the burner has been helpful, and we both initially thought I couldn't relight the burner during the first brew day because of a temperature issue, (there is a probe over the flame, and a spring loaded bolt on top of the burner where the kettle sits). We thought perhaps it was too hot and wouldn't relight.

During the second brew day, this couldn't be the case, as everything was cool, (tried testing this before even putting water in the kettle). I rigged up a way to keep the spring loaded bolt on top out of the way, and during 30 minutes of troubleshooting, even clipped the wires between the temperature probe and the spring loaded bolt to the stem of the burner (where it feeds where the flame comes out) so there is no way a safety feature would shut the flame off due to overheating.

Still having the same issue where the red button you need to depress to light the flame, needs to be pressed down to keep the flame running.

Questions:

1. WTF is going on?
2. Could it be because of some wort somehow got in there? I didn't spill at all during the first brew day, maybe just some residual dripping, but nothing serious. Seller has used this for years without issue, I imagine some spilling has occurred, but I don't know why all of a sudden, between mashing and boiling, the burner is having this problem...
3. Should I just rig the red button so it stays depressed the whole time?
4. If when doing so, would this drain the gas more quickly?
5. Should I just buy a new one? This used one was working when I bought it, and while heating strike water, so I know I didn't buy a broken one...


Any thoughts would be appreciated. I bailed on my brew-day today, but would love to get this resolved as I have all the ingredients ready.

Thanks!
 
Are you sure the temp probe is to prevent overheating and not to turn off the gas when the fire goes out? I've had a thermocouple go out on my water heater before with similar results.
 
I am not sure. That is a possibility I suppose. It was more of a guess what it's used for, so maybe I interpreted that backwards (instead of a safety feature to turn it off due to overheating, a feature to confirm feeding gas in the presence of flame)..

Either way, I am pretty sure this isn't causing the issue, as when it was working, the flame was on the probe, and when it wasn't working, the flame was still just as large, and heating the probe, and the burner would still shut off when letting go of the red button.

I'm inclined to keep it and still use it, but I feel like when running the burner with a bottle propped up holding the red button in its "pushed" position, that I ran through propane quickly, (it was a new tank, and it seemed pretty light after using it for only 90 minutes or so to get through the boil on day one).

The seller thinks, and may be right, that having the button pushed doesn't burn through any more or less gas than if the flame was lit and the button was released. Perhaps I just burned through more gas than necessary with a high flame during boil, but I think I was pretty conservative in that regard.

Can any one confirm, or have insight if the gas flow is the same with the button pushed or not? I don't have the model, which would help, but just generally speaking, am I more inclined to burn more gas with it depressed during the whole boil?

Thanks.
 
Why wouldn't it cause the issue? If it isn't working properly it won't allow the gas to flow. That red button is bypassing the thermocouple. Of you let go and it turns off, then the thermocouple is likely malfunctioning.
 
Also, if you don't want the safety feature, just remove it and don't worry about the red button at all.
 
But whether the red button is depressed or not, the flow of gas is the same, as defined by the valve opening on the propane and the regulator setting, correct? I can tape, tie, or prop the red button in the depressed position, but I fear if when depressed, the gas flow increases, I'll burn through more propane than necessary...

The more I think I about it, it shouldn't, as that doesn't change the regulator's setting... Wise to think I can get by with the button propped in the pressed positing?
 
I'm pretty sure the button has nothing to do with total gas consumption. My turkey fryer burner started doing that a couple months after I bought it, so I had a friend hold it down with a wrench while I soldered it in place. I still get 4-5 brews per tank. Note that it sounds like the igniter button on your burner sounds like its plastic. If this is the case you will need to find a different method of holding it in place.
 
I am a visual kind of guy... Can you snap a pic of the setup and put it on here so that I can see it.

Sounds like you are on the right path with the malfunctioning thermocouple idea.

Those turkey fryer setups have a built in safety features; some use a timer to shut it off after "x" amount of time, but more commonly there is a thermocouple that is set to shut gas flow to the burner if the temp gets up to "x".

I had one years ago that would shut off if the temp got above 400 degrees. After about 5 yrs (2-3 turkeys per year), the safety switch began to malfunction and I ended up purchasing a new regulator/hose with no safety feature.
I have kids, so leaving 3-4 gallons of oil (or 7 gallons of wort) unsupervised is just not in my S.O.P
No need for a built in safety feature....:mug:
 
That thermocouple is a safety feature. It opens the gas valve once heated. that's why you need to hold the red button for a whilewhile it heats. If the flame goes out it cools and closes the valve thus eliminating the chance of explosion. I've seen what happens when these valves are bypassed and the flame goes out...real nasty ****.

The safety valve is of a normal closed (NC) type so of it were to malfunction it would not present an unsafe condition but would cause the issues you described. I'd repair or replace the valve/thermocouple. I would never bypass such a safety feature.
 
I would never bypass such a safety feature.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of time, energy, and ingenuity people waste on defeating safety features when you could just as easily remove them or just buy a cheaper product without them in the first place. Brute-forcing things appears to be a way of life.
 
OK.

Here's what I got...

Pic1: Just the regular setup, tank attached to burner.

Pic2: This is the red knob I am talking about. Plastic. Hold it down, and it doesn't click, like your propane grill, but you can hear the stream of gas go through. As mentioned, this worked fine (without having to wait for the thermometer to heat up), during brew day 1, when mashing. It was when I tried to relight the burner to bring wort to boil that it wouldn't light. Held it down for a few minutes, and it didn't matter, the flame would die as soon as you released the button.

That rotating steal disk, to the right, is what changes the flame type. I've experimented with this as well, and no matter the setting, same issue when trying to relight.

Pic3: This is on top of the burner, there is a spring loaded bolt attached to the wiring (shown later). When I thought this issue was due to overheating, I wedged a piece of metal in there to hold it down, so the bolt wouldn't be touching the bottom of the kettle.

Pic4: View from above, showing the thermometer probe going through the body of the burner to above the flame.

Pic5: The wiring. Yes, I cut it, and it was probably stupid to do so, but its easily solderable. From the right, the copper wiring goes to the probe, to the left, back to the red button. Going up, are two leads to the spring loaded screw.

Pic6: Where the wiring attaches to the red button.


So I cut it. Its not that big of a deal to me if by depressing the red button (I can tie it down so it is stuck in position), doesn't burn through more gas than if I were to light it normally, and have the ability to let go of the button and the flame stays on.

I cut the wires thinking it was a malfunctioning feature to where it will cut your gas off it if it is too hot or something. The points raised where this feature is for the opposite, to know NOT to cut off the gas when there is flame on the thermometer makes sense, but with it cut, there is nothing to cut off the gas flow and make it stop.

The cutting of the wire doesn't really matter here, as it inexplicably stopped working, while the kettle was sitting during a mash, and wouldn't relight. I am just trying to figure that part out, and if I decide to keep using this by rigging the red button pressed to allow for gas, if I risk burning through fuel quicker. Otherwise, I am not too worried about cutting the wire, or if I had to solder that back in place, its a quick fix (but whatever it was meant for isn't working anyways, so whats the point)...


Hopefully that all makes sense.

I appreciate your insight.

Thanks.

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photo 6.jpg
 
As others have mentioned, that is a thermocouple, which keeps the gas valve open, by generating a millivolt signal, letting the valve know that the flame is lit, and that gas is not flowing, without being burned.

Your igniter button simply bypasses it during the burner "start cycle".

Fix it, a thermocouple is pretty cheap, if you shop around.

Or get a valve that is not so equipped.

I doubt that soldering it will fix it, as it was tits up in the first place.

Read here, on how they function:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple
 
Thanks for passing along this link, I'll look into this further..

I guess what is still confusing to me, if the thermocouple is to keep the gas valve open, in the presence of the flame, what are the risks in use this burner with it bypassed/broken? I still don't understand what troubles, or safety issues I would have? When I initially thought this was to turn off the flame, I could see why this would be an issue (especially if this was designed for turkey frying, in that, the flash point of oil could be dangerous), but if I am using this to continuously boil wort, and I rig the red button so it is depressed during the boil, what issues could I face?

It also sounds like this isn't changing my rate of gas flow, so I shouldn't have any issues burning fuel inefficiently?

If any one has insight, that would be helpful.

Thank you.
 
The thermocouple turns off the gas if the flame goes out so you don't have a build up of gas that can ignite.
Like others have said... get rid of it and move on. If you're concerned about the safety feature, buy a new thermocouple. They can't be repaired.
Think less, brew more beer.
 

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