Probs with head retention in this stout

[olotti]

Bottled an 8% abv breakfast stout clone a month and a half ago, been sitting in 70-72deg closet for bottle conditioning and till this day it still won't retain a head. Not sure why as I've had 8+% abv IPAs carb in a month with no additional yeast at bottling, can't figure out why this one won't seem to carbonate. Recipe maybe? Here it is. I understand a large portion of oats can hinder head retention however in there is less in this recipe than I used in my lower abv version of this and that one curbed fine although that was 6.7% abv.

14lb 2 row
2lb oats
1 1/2lbs victory
1lb choc malt
1/2lb c120
12oz roast barley
12oz flaked barley

Any ideas? I moved the bottles to my second floor bedroom closet where it's a few degrees warmer so I'll see if maybe that's all it needs.

 

[cmoewes]

Are you saying that when you pour one it is still flat or that it doesn't develop or hold much of a head when you pour it?

 

[JoeHoffman]

Pretty sure a breakfast stout should have a very low abv, also the oats will aid in head retention certainly won't hurt it. But this sounds like you simply have tired out yeast that gave up on you. You could try poring it all in a bottling bucket and pitching some rehydrated yeast with a high alcohol tolerance like Nottingham then bottle again if you think the beer is ruined anyway.


Pleas excuse my dyslexia

 

[Waynep005]

Also you could take the caps off and put in a few grains from a yeast packnin and see if that would get the needed fermentation going. This would avoid the oxygenation of pouring out the bottles

 

[olotti]

Are you saying that when you pour one it is still flat or that it doesn't develop or hold much of a head when you pour it?

It's still lacking body carbonation and won't hold a head.

 

[olotti]

Pretty sure a breakfast stout should have a very low abv, also the oats will aid in head retention certainly won't hurt it. But this sounds like you simply have tired out yeast that gave up on you. You could try poring it all in a bottling bucket and pitching some rehydrated yeast with a high alcohol tolerance like Nottingham then bottle again if you think the beer is ruined anyway.


Pleas excuse my dyslexia

Founders is 8.3% and I used 2 packs of 04 for this batch which should be more than enough yeast. This beers kinda been a disaster from the start so I'm not surprised it's had issues carbing, it's like it wants to be dumped.

 

[cilestiok]

Pretty sure a breakfast stout should have a very low abv, also the oats will aid in head retention certainly won't hurt it. But this sounds like you simply have tired out yeast that gave up on you. You could try poring it all in a bottling bucket and pitching some rehydrated yeast with a high alcohol tolerance like Nottingham then bottle again if you think the beer is ruined anyway.


Pleas excuse my dyslexia

I have had quite the opposite experience with oats. They seem to impart a slick, oily quality to the beer that totally diminishes the head retention in all beers I have included them in. Food for thought. Maybe someone else will chime in with similar experiences.

 

[JoeHoffman]

Wow, not my experience but could be a lot of factors there


Pleas excuse my dyslexia

 

[JoeHoffman]

Man I was way wrong about the abv thing. I always thought that founders was the outsider but apparently its the archetype in contemporary craft brewing. I was thinking of the long history of drinking small beer at breakfast in Europe which included very low abv stout type beers in England.


Pleas excuse my dyslexia

 

[cmoewes]

How much priming sugar did you add? 6 weeks is a really long time but even under perfect conditions there still should have been some yeast left and s-04 should be just fine in 8% abv.

 

[cilestiok]

Read a bit of this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=554007

You have about 10% oats in your recipe. That's most likely the source of your retention issue.

The carbonation on the other hand, I cannot answer to without knowing your priming/bottling process.

 

[olotti]

Read a bit of this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=554007

You have about 10% oats in your recipe. That's most likely the source of your retention issue.

The carbonation on the other hand, I cannot answer to without knowing your priming/bottling process.

Maybe next batch I'll decrease the pats to 1 1/2lbs and increase the flaked barley to 1lb to aid in body and head retention. That was my reason for increasing the pats up to 2lbs was to increase the body of the beer but maybe it's to much. I carb with dextrose and on stouts I like the lower end so I carbed with 3.5oz priming sugar which puts this at 2.1 vol CO2 which according to Brewers friend chart is in style.

 

[brew_darrymore]

I have had quite the opposite experience with oats. They seem to impart a slick, oily quality to the beer that totally diminishes the head retention in all beers I have included them in. Food for thought. Maybe someone else will chime in with similar experiences.

+1

There were only two batches that I made where head retention was pretty poor. Both beers were well carbonated but acted like sodas, no head at all. It was a stout and a pale ale. In both of these batches I used oats.

To counteract that I now add 1/2lb flaked barley.

 

[Kee]

That's not much priming sugar. Certainly part of the problem. But 8% beers can take longer than expected to carbonate.

 

[olotti]

That's not much priming sugar. Certainly part of the problem. But 8% beers can take longer than expected to carbonate.

True if never carb an ipa with this amount but this number 3.5oz is taken directly off of three priming calculators.

 

[Kee]

True if never carb an ipa with this amount but this number 3.5oz is taken directly off of three priming calculators.

No doubt. But I think even Yooper has advised not to follow the style guidelines on the low end.

Which reminds me. When using those calculators always put in the maximum temperature reached during fermentation, not the present temperature of the beer. Otherwise the calculator will assume there is more residual CO2 than there is.

Some will argue that the CO2 in the headspace will dissolve back into the beer as it cools. I have my doubts and would rather my beer be SLIGHTLY over-carbonated (if wrong) than under carbonated.