Problems with bottled batches (Kegged ones are fine)

[luizffgarcia]

Hey guys, i am hoping you can help me figure something out.

I have been brewing for more than 1 year and i have always had problems with bottling.

Right now i can brew a damn good IPA when i keg it, its really good! But every single time i try to bottle the same recipe instead of kegging, it is not good.

Every single batch has an off flavor AND an off aroma, always similar.

I was suspicious of my sanitation methods, now i am boiling the bottles for 15 minutes, and then after cooling i am soaking them in a bucket full of starsan. The dextrose solution is of course boiled for 15 minutes in some water (even tried distilled water for this since i use 100% distilled + salts).

I even got a new bottling bucket, siphon and tube. I use a bottling wand and i minimize oxygen contact as much as humanly possible. I had oxidation problems before, and the off flavor i have is not like that, althou i cannot describe it well.

I also don't believe it has anything to do with green beer, i try my first bottle after 3 weeks conditioning at 20c, i currently have bottles that are 2 months old and nothing changed.

Do you have any ideas? What can i try? What can be causing this?

Thanks for the help

 

[kh54s10]

I don't see anything wrong with your processes other than excess time.

Boiling the bottles is unnecessary. Clean then Starsan is plenty.

Maybe boiling the sugar solution for so long is the culprit. It only takes a couple minutes at most. I use enough water to dissolve the sugar, bring it to a boil for just a minute or two and add it to the bottling bucket with a swirling siphon already started.

That said, I have not bottled many IPAs so I can't really compare to my kegged ones, but with the average beer my bottled ones are just as good as from the keg.

 

[JonM]

Have you tried bottling from the keg? Like with the "We Don't Need No Stinking Beer Gun" thing?

 

[kh54s10]

Have you tried bottling from the keg? Like with the "We Don't Need No Stinking Beer Gun" thing?

Or one of these:

 

[Hopsimus]

I have a few thoughts, maybe one will help.

1. Are you sanitizing your caps? Maybe they have dust on them (long shot, but thought I would throw it out there)?

2. What type of sugar are you using?
I use corn priming sugar for my bottling and it works pretty well. Perhaps try a different brand.
Or, try Dry Malt Extract, though, keep in mind you need more dry malt than sugar (there are calculators out there you can use).

3. Where are you getting the water from which you use to boil the sugar? You mention distilled, perhaps try drinking water from the store instead.
If it is from your tap, are you removing the chlorine (I realize it is a super small amount of water, but you never know)?
Maybe you could reserve some of the water you use on brew day and use that on bottling day too.

4. Is there any crud in your bottles? A good 24 hour soak in pbw followed by a rinse usually does the trick (and then starsan of course).
If the bottles are old, maybe try some brand new ones.

Cheers!

 

[luizffgarcia]

Hahahaha, i have never tried bottling from the keg since i dont have the gun, wont that cause too much oxidation?

I thought i needed to boil the sugar for 10 min at least, maybe its worth the try boiling for less...

I always sanitize the caps, and i have tried spring water and distilled water for the sugar. And i have a mix of old and new bottles, all inspected with a flashlight, same results...

 

[Yooper]

Hahahaha, i have never tried bottling from the keg since i dont have the gun, wont that cause too much oxidation?

I thought i needed to boil the sugar for 10 min at least, maybe its worth the try boiling for less...

I always sanitize the caps, and i have tried spring water and distilled water for the sugar. And i have a mix of old and new bottles, all inspected with a flashlight, same results...

Do you wait three weeks at room temperature before trying your kegged IPAs, just as the bottled ones? Maybe the beer is just more aged, with a little oxidation thrown in, since beer ages much faster at room temperature than cold temperatures.

You can either take greater efforts to avoid oxidation in the bottling process and try chilling them as soon as they are carbonated, or bottle from the keg if you want. The easiest way to bottle from the keg is: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=24678

 

[luizffgarcia]

Do you wait three weeks at room temperature before trying your kegged IPAs, just as the bottled ones? Maybe the beer is just more aged, with a little oxidation thrown in, since beer ages much faster at room temperature than cold temperatures.

You can either take greater efforts to avoid oxidation in the bottling process and try chilling them as soon as they are carbonated, or bottle from the keg if you want. The easiest way to bottle from the keg is: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=24678

Well the beer does not taste old, it really have a specific taste to it.

But i like the idea of transferring from the keg a lot! I will follow that tutorial for sure and see what happens.

 

[Hopsimus]

Here's one thing to try (to eliminate some variables).
Boil some water and sugar just like you do on bottling day.
When done, take a taste of the result and see if you can detect the off flavor.
Perhaps you are getting the flavor from the pot you are using...

https://beerandbrewing.com/off-flavor-of-the-week-metallic/

 

[jan_b19]

few more questions:
what does the off flavor? what doe it taste like?
how much beer do you put in your bottles? is there too much headspace?
Do you bottle condition in a dark room or does light get to the beer?

 

[LKABrewer]

Do you rinse your bottles with starsan or water before bottling? Do you remove chlorine from the rinse/starsan water?

 

[luizffgarcia]

I will try and taste the boiled sugar, that will be interesting!

Its unlikely i get the off flavor from the pot, it is a 3 month old original Tfal pot.

I am not sure how to describe the off flavor, its subtle but very weird, maybe a little sweet?

The headspace in the bottles is determined but the bottling wand, i fill up to the top and remove the wand, and i condition the bottles in a dark room at 20c.

I let the bottles soak in starsan, so there is a little starsan left inside the bottles when i transfer, mmm this may be a good clue, the water i use in my starsan solution is tap water, it probably have a lot of chlorine, do you think that this can cause off flavors?

 

[LKABrewer]

It does not take much chlorine/chloromine to hit the taste threshold for chlorophenols. It is always good practice to remove chlorine from anything that contacts your beer, including sanitizers.

 

[Smellyglove]

Next time you brew the same IPA, bottle some of it and keg the rest.

My guess is that you are experiencing the difference of a kegged IPA where you can keep it cold all the way, and not adding sugar to carbonate it, and the taste of the same beer which has added sugar and has to be kept "warm" for a period of time.

Bottle carbonating an IPA is imho detrimental. Bottlecarbonating induces more oxygen, temperature and the taste of carbonating sugar.

 

[luizffgarcia]

Thanks for the help guys, i have now transferred 2 kegs to bottles, to be honest after doing that i cannot imagine bottle carbonating ever again, this solves my bottle conditioning problem AND gives me fresh beer in 3 weeks from pot to glass, cheers!