primary/secondary debate
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fuelish
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Depends on the recipe.....most beers, I primary only....
I never secondary unless I need to leave the beer on oak for months.
This has been hashed out a lot though:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/secondary-fermentation-rack-not-rack-155255/
This has been hashed out a lot though:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/secondary-fermentation-rack-not-rack-155255/
I used to be like you and think a secondary was required on all batches. I just straight primary for sometime up to a month depending on my schedule, but usually only 2 weeks. The yeast will start to clean themselves up after a fermentation is complete for a cleaner looking product.
I only secondary now when I add fruit to a wheat beer.
I only secondary now when I add fruit to a wheat beer.
secondary in the keg works for me
S_M
S_M
timdsmith72
Well-Known Member
Only time I ever secondary any more is when I'm adding fresh fruit. And I only do that once a year for a Christmas beer. I go straight from primary to keg. I even lager in kegs.
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Do I have it right that the main schools of thought seem to be either:
a) Get it off the yeast quickly to prevent the weird autolysis flavours from happening in the first place
or
b) Let it sit on there even longer to let the yeast cells clean it up for you?
a) Get it off the yeast quickly to prevent the weird autolysis flavours from happening in the first place
or
b) Let it sit on there even longer to let the yeast cells clean it up for you?
masteraviator
Well-Known Member
I secondary for one (with two variations) reason: Yeast. I'll either harvest the yeast out of the primary for washing, or I pitch a new batch onto the primary yeast cake.
BBL_Brewer
Well-Known Member
Right. But off flavors just don't happen in the amount of time it takes for a typical batch of beer to reach maturity. If you cut your teeth on older literature (like I did) you get warned about this, but the current school of thought is that it's not an issue. You'll just have to try it both ways if you're still skeptical.
Beernik
Well-Known Member
Getting it off the yeast because you are worried about autolysis is a problem if you have giant conicals, like breweries have. It's not a problem for 6 gallon flat bottomed buckets and carboys. There isn't enough pressure on the yeast at the bottom of the fermenter to cause cell rupture.
I use secondaries when I'm using fruit, lagering, or bulk aging. And that's mostly because I want to transfer it to a glass carboy for the additional time it's going to be sitting there or because glass is easier to clean.
I use secondaries when I'm using fruit, lagering, or bulk aging. And that's mostly because I want to transfer it to a glass carboy for the additional time it's going to be sitting there or because glass is easier to clean.
boydster
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The yeast aren't cleaning up autolysis flavors. They are cleaning up fermentation byproducts - stuff like acetaldehyde and diacetyl. That process is over within a day or two of reaching FG. At that point, some people like to get the beer off the yeast so it doesn't take on any additional yeast flavor characteristics (different than autolysis; this is just a yeasty flavor I'm speaking of), while others like to leave it on the yeast for longer conditioning.
I secondary for fruit and oak, but other than that I am primary-only.
I secondary for fruit and oak, but other than that I am primary-only.
dkevinb
Well-Known Member
I like to keep it simple - 3 weeks in primary, then into the bottle. But I never add fruit and I have not yet made any really big beers.
Yes, but I would label them like this:
Old way of thinking: Get it off the yeast quickly to prevent the weird autolysis flavours from happening in the first place
New way of thinking: Let it sit on there even longer to let the yeast cells clean it up for you.
The old way of thinking was brought about by poor yeast quality and handling. Remember that brewers were using bread yeast. It may have said brewers yeast on the package, but it was usually just repackaged bread yeast, and most critically they were not rehydrating it. When you just sprinkle dry yeast into your beer you are killing roughly half of the cells. You now have billions of dead yeast cells in your beer, and the race is on!
Yeast manufacturers like White Labs, Fermentis, and Wyeast take great pains to provide you with yeast that are as healthy as possible. Now that yeast cells are properly dried/stored, and we know how to take care of them better we are pitching happy healthy yeast into our beer. Untold millions aren't already dead, and half of the live ones aren't dying the moment they hit the surface. Since they are alive and well they will continue to work for use after the main portion of fermentation is over. They will go around and clean up byproducts of fermentation like aldehydes.
The bottom line is that there is no reason to worry about keeping your beer on the yeast cake for a few weeks these days unless you have treated your yeast badly...in which case STOP THAT!
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The conundrum is....
Healthy yeast and proper pitch rates and temperatures mean autolysis isn't really a risk so a long primary isn't a problem. But healthy yeast and proper pitch rates and temperature mean there isn't anything to "clean up" so a short primary isn't a problem.
Anymore, my fermentation time is settled by my brewing schedule, keg availability, and/or laziness. Two weeks or five weeks, it doesn't really matter. (Unless I'm making a fresh IPA, then I try to ferment no longer than ~17 days).
^^What he said^^
Wow, only 17 posts to go till you hit the big 40....40K that is. It boggles the mind
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