Portable Vacuum Sealer Bags Losing Seal? (Hops)

[Gadjobrinus]

Didn't know where else to put it. Used to use the little hand vacuum pump and bag for maintaining my cheese cultures. Now, it's hops. Frustrating thing is that it might hold anywhere from a couple minutes to half hour or something. So I'm not only drawing a vacuum on the hops innumerable times, but they're in a bag filled with (freezer) air.

Anyone else have these, and experience this? Any suggestions?

 

[Smellyglove]

Is the area where the seal is going free of hop-powder?

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Is the area where the seal is going free of hop-powder?

It is, yep - I check for that each time.

 

[day_trippr]

Don't know what kind of bag is used with a hand-vac pump - I'm assuming there's no heat-sealing involved.

I've vac-bagged with a FoodSaver and frozen many (many!) pounds of dried home-growns over the years and every once in awhile I'll have a bag lose seal because of a stiff strig puncturing the bag. I just use those soonest...

Cheers!

 

[phug]

I honestly can’t get the ziploc vacuum sealer bags to hold a seal on hops. Just doesn’t work

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Don't know what kind of bag is used with a hand-vac pump - I'm assuming there's no heat-sealing involved.

I've vac-bagged with a FoodSaver and frozen many (many!) pounds of dried home-growns over the years and every once in awhile I'll have a bag lose seal because of a stiff strig puncturing the bag. I just use those soonest...

Cheers!

Hey trippr, yeah, there's no heat sealing. Just a disc with a double flap to one side. The weird thing is, like I said, I used this style all the time for maintaining pure yeast cultures and never had an issue - and I'd think if anything, the cultures would be more prone, given that they're powder and these are pellets.

Pretty frustrating, not sure what to do here. I have an entire freezer full of hops. Thankfully, only about 3 pounds have been opened and used, and in these vacuum bags. Still, will have to figure this out. I presume frozen, exposed to freezer air, I might as well toss them fairly quickly, yes (I knew this once, not now)?

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I honestly can’t get the ziploc vacuum sealer bags to hold a seal on hops. Just doesn’t work

That's a bummer. So weird. I wonder if another bag make might work (I think I've seen at least a couple more that would be compatible, on Amazon).

 

[NitrogenWidget]

Hey trippr, yeah, there's no heat sealing. Just a disc with a double flap to one side. The weird thing is, like I said, I used this style all the time for maintaining pure yeast cultures and never had an issue - and I'd think if anything, the cultures would be more prone, given that they're powder and these are pellets.

Pretty frustrating, not sure what to do here. I have an entire freezer full of hops. Thankfully, only about 3 pounds have been opened and used, and in these vacuum bags. Still, will have to figure this out. I presume frozen, exposed to freezer air, I might as well toss them fairly quickly, yes (I knew this once, not now)?

sounds just like how space bags for clothes are designed.
Some hold the seal and some don't.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Even the heat sealer ones aren't always reliable.

It's not just hop dust but the oils too.

I'm not aware of a home unit that'll do the job well enough to ensure long term storage. It'll help if you CO2 (or better yet N2, but beer gas would work too) flush em before sealing, and be prepared to repeat periodically.

There are mylar bags designed specifically to seal hops that work exponentially better, but are large (as in designed to seal 11lb quantities or larger) and require a multi-thousand dollar industrial sealer.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Hey trippr, yeah, there's no heat sealing. Just a disc with a double flap to one side. The weird thing is, like I said, I used this style all the time for maintaining pure yeast cultures and never had an issue - and I'd think if anything, the cultures would be more prone, given that they're powder and these are pellets.

Pretty frustrating, not sure what to do here. I have an entire freezer full of hops. Thankfully, only about 3 pounds have been opened and used, and in these vacuum bags. Still, will have to figure this out. I presume frozen, exposed to freezer air, I might as well toss them fairly quickly, yes (I knew this once, not now)?

I wouldn’t dump em just yet. I’m sure it’s roughly the same as freezing some meat. You could look for signs of freezer burn?

I’m not familiar with those bags so I can’t (or shouldn’t speculate) on the cause.

 

[bpgreen]

I bought one of those handheld vacuum sealers a long time ago and came to the conclusion that if I wanted to buy ingredients in bulk, it made sense too buy a decent vacuum sealer.

As a bonus, I've used it for many things that aren't beer related, so it was well worth three money spent.

 

[phug]

My handheld works very well sealing mason jars with the food saver adapter. Those will hold the seal forever

 

[Qhrumphf]

My handheld works very well sealing mason jars with the food saver adapter. Those will hold the seal forever

Horribly inefficient from a space perspective, but that certainly works.

 

[EDF713]

I’ve used the foil lined coffee bags from Amazon, they’ve worked well.

 

[JohnSand]

I used a hand pump for a long time, with occasional failure. I only used it for hops, I never figured out why it didn't work sometimes. Now I use an electric, much better. I did once read that a good way to seal hops is a bag in the bag, first bag folded but not sealed.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Thanks everybody, good ideas. Funny you mentioned the bag in a bag, John, I was literally staring at the ceiling, glanced over to my Michael Jackson books and then...starting worrying over my green babies in the freezer (yeah, you can say it. FREAK!, lol). And I wondered about that, but thought it was not useful, because I'm still exposing them to air. Can you explain how it works, because it is uncanny, just thinking on this.

Thanks everyone else. I'd forgotten about the mason jar solution, thanks phug. And I'll probably have to move over to the heat-vacuum sealing, I suppose, if I truly want to bank on it. The one drawback I find with the tabletop system like that is that you're constantly cutting down on the bag, if you use it a lot. Great for long term freezer storage of food, but getting in and out to often-used items, I thought it'd be a pain. Obviously not for you guys. They are great. I used them in my restaurant as needed and burned through a few (not they're fault - using them on a commercial basis for various functions, not meant to do that), always liked them.

It still makes me wonder, though. Like I say, I used the handheld with great success for powdery cultures, and never had anything remotely approaching this failure rate.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Even the heat sealer ones aren't always reliable.

It's not just hop dust but the oils too.

I'm not aware of a home unit that'll do the job well enough to ensure long term storage. It'll help if you CO2 (or better yet N2, but beer gas would work too) flush em before sealing, and be prepared to repeat periodically.

There are mylar bags designed specifically to seal hops that work exponentially better, but are large (as in designed to seal 11lb quantities or larger) and require a multi-thousand dollar industrial sealer.

Qhrumphf, I presume you're talking about flushing the handheld bags? What if you just flooded a regular zip lock with N2, and forget anything else - just put them in, flood, zip?

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I’ve used the foil lined coffee bags from Amazon, they’ve worked well.

EDF, these work with the handheld pumps? Great idea - thanks!

 

[EDF713]

EDF, these work with the handheld pumps? Great idea - thanks!

Mine are like that, except the outside is brown paper instead of black. I had no idea there are hand pumps, I just squeezed a bunch. I learned something new today!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Qhrumphf, I presume you're talking about flushing the handheld bags? What if you just flooded a regular zip lock with N2, and forget anything else - just put them in, flood, zip?

Unless the bag is actually sealed and a barrier bag, only a limited time solution, but better than nothing.

Jars will hold vacuum superbly, and if you N2 flush first, should hold a couple years (accounting minor degredation). Just a lot of volume taken up per weight. I too had forgotten about it.

Commercial mylar hop bags, same thing with better space utilization, but not practical for home use both in hop quantity and equipmemt cost.

 

[JohnSand]

Gad, the bag in bag works because the inner bag isn't a sealed or locked, just folded over. The vacuum squeezes the air out but the fold keeps the contents in. I do this with the power sealer, I don't remember if I did it with the hand pump.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Thanks Qhrumphf and John. Guys, can I ask - I used to love the tabletop heat sealer; is my memory correct that you lose a little bit from the bag each time, because you cut just below the seal (and next time, it has to be inserted farther in?). Not trying to be nitpicky, just couldn't recall if that grew to be a pain quickly in food you access often.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I've never had any luck with those hand pump sealers. I think the little plastic disks shrink when frozen and lose the seal.

I lucked out and found a pretty new FoodSaver on Craigslist for 10 bucks. I've used both Foodsaver bags and Mylar bags. From what I've read on the internet...so it must be true. Is that Foodsaver bags are oxygen resistant and Mylar bags are impermeable to oxygen. I can’t tell the difference other than the Mylar bags are Silver. FoodSaver and the Mylar bags both state oxygen blocker on their packaging. Neither say impermeable. Now oxygen being a gas, if it was really getting in the bags then the vacuum seal would be broken and the bag would relax. I’ve had zero bags loose vacuum so I can’t believe O2 is slipping by the bag. If Oxygen is slipping by the bag but not enough to break the vacuum is it really enough to damage your hops? I doubt it. Now light on the other hand, FoodSaver bags offer no UV protection so it’s a good thing they are in my very dark freezer.

I see Foodsavers on Criagslist all the time. I'm sure you can find one cheap.

 

[bpgreen]

Thanks Qhrumphf and John. Guys, can I ask - I used to love the tabletop heat sealer; is my memory correct that you lose a little bit from the bag each time, because you cut just below the seal (and next time, it has to be inserted farther in?). Not trying to be nitpicky, just couldn't recall if that grew to be a pain quickly in food you access often.

You remember correctly. For hops, I start with a bag that is bigger than I need to give some room. If it gets too small, I split the hops and use another bag.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Thanks for the additional notes, guys. Looked on CL and right now, not much, but will keep at it. Haven't had one since 2004, and it seems they've expanded their offerings, lol. Would something like the "mini" be adequate (an aged ad on CL, 20 days old, but queried regardless). Any baseline models you recommend at all?

My hops are dying in the freezer. It's killin' me!

 

[JohnSand]

I bought a Nesco on Amazon for about $40. Prices are higher now, mine might have been on sale.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I bought a Nesco on Amazon for about $40. Prices are higher now, mine might have been on sale.

Perfect, thanks John. One at $40ish, one at $50ish, looks great. Many thanks!

 

[JohnSand]

Glad to help.

 

[kh54s10]

I use an old simple version of FoodSaver vacuum. I bought it at least 10 years ago for food. When I started brewing almost 7 years ago, I started using it for hops also. I take the labelled bag that the hops came in, fold it closed so I can see the name, put that toward the smooth side of the bag. That way I can see the name and don't have to write on the outside of the package.

For those that say this is only temporary, how long do you consider temporary. I have hops that I bought years ago, they have been in the freezer all along, except when getting some for the recipe. They are still fine. I expect some degradation so I use a little more than called for.

I have too many older hops, time to brew more.

I have had some bags equalize. If I discover that quickly I just re-package them. If it was a while, those get used first.

My suggestion: if you are having problems with those hand pump versions, spend a little more and get a good electric vacuum sealer. It doesn't have to be one of the super fancy models. It is well worth the $$.