Please help me with force carb process!

[Alex4mula]

I have a beer to force carbonate this week. Have searched and read many threads but I am still very confused. I found this post from Nicegirl that seems to make a lot of sense: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/forced-carbonation-using-a-carbonation-stone.469875/

My LHBS told me to use a different but simpler process but I have doubts.

I have of course keg and carbonation lid with stone. This is a brown ale (Bells Best Brown copy) with around 6% ABV. Beer in keezer now should be at around 34°-36°F. I am referencing this carbonation table: http://www.brewandgrow.com/brew/media/pdf/Carbonation-Stone-Instructions.pdf

Could you please help me decide which of these two processes below should I use??

Nicegirl Process Steps:

1. Transfer beer from Carboy to cold 5gal keg

2. Connect gas line to keg gas input

3. Purge top of keg with CO2

4. Connect gas line to carbonation stone port at carb lid

- Using final pressure of 10.2 + wetting pressure, let say 14.2psi assuming 4psi wetting pressure (2.5 CO2 vol: per table linked above and for beer style and beer aprox temp in keezer mentioned above)

6. Set pressure to 6psi and wait 30min

7. Set pressure to 8psi and wait 30min

8. Set pressure to 10psi and wait 30min

9. Set pressure to 12psi and wait 30min

10. Set pressure to 14.2psi and leave it for 48hrs

11. Set pressure back to serving pressure (10-12psi) and test pour beer.


LHBS Process Steps:

1. Transfer beer from Carboy to cold 5gal keg

2. Connect gas line to keg gas input

3. Purge top of keg with CO2

4. Connect gas line to carbonation stone port at carb lid

5. Set pressure to 30psi and shake keg (somehow inside keezer?) about 80 times

6. Wait one hour

7. Set pressure back to serving pressure (10-12psi) and pour test beer.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

The shake method is an old way of doing things. Skip it.
Cant help with the stone but it seems way to complicated. I'd skip that to.

Tried and tested...lets ay a million times:

start with cold beer for simplicity
Transfer to keg any way you want.

40 psi for 18 to 24 hours
Perge all pressure
Set to serving pressure per chart.
Drink...it will balance out and serve a bit better in few days (creamier head) but you can drink after initial 18-24 hours and it will be good

Set to 30 psi for 3 days and do the same....the way I used to do it and many still do but 40 psi for 18 hours gives you the EXACT same beer the next day so why wait.

Set to serving pressure from the get go and forget for 2 weeks and watch it collect dust when your thirsty and cant drink it

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Heres the chart everyone uses

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwikwKv-noLgAhVuUN8KHa7JCzkQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table/&psig=AOvVaw2A3zTCDez-HcOBkcr0TZqD&ust=1548275808603102

How to use the chart.
First figure out co2 volume for whatever beer your kegging.
Google co2 volume Brown Ale...Co2 volume IPA ETC and it will surely come up.

THen figure out what temp your beer will be stored at in the fridge...lets say 37

Then read up the chart to see what psi to set to....simple as that

So lets say your fridge/beer is set to 37 and you want 2.40 co2 volume.
Go to the chart look for 37 deg...follow over to 2.42 (close enough) Go up and the PSI will be set to 10....this is all after your done force carbing (burst carbing) and your ready to drop to serving pressure

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Set regulator to desired psi based on temp and the chart. Leave connected. Wait 4 to 5 days. Beer is ready to serve.

For example my keezer is 38F. I want 2.5 psi (typical US beer volumes of CO2). According to the chart I set my regulator between 11 and 12.

 

[Alex4mula]

The shake method is an old way of doing things. Skip it.
Cant help with the stone but it seems way to complicated. I'd skip that to.

Tried and tested...lets ay a million times:

start with cold beer for simplicity
Transfer to keg any way you want.

40 psi for 18 to 24 hours
Perge all pressure
Set to serving pressure per chart.
Drink...it will balance out and serve a bit better in few days (creamier head) but you can drink after initial 18-24 hours and it will be good

Set to 30 psi for 3 days and do the same....the way I used to do it and many still do but 40 psi for 18 hours gives you the EXACT same beer the next day so why wait.

Set to serving pressure from the get go and forget for 2 weeks and watch it collect dust when your thirsty and cant drink it

Ok. So either of these two I can use with the carb stone lid, correct? Thanks for the new table but then how do I use that info in it fro your process? Thanks

 

[Alex4mula]

Set regulator to desired psi based on temp and the chart. Leave connected. Wait 4 to 5 days. Beer is ready to serve.

For example my keezer is 38F. I want 2.5 psi (typical US beer volumes of CO2). According to the chart I set my regulator between 11 and 12.

Ok. This makes a lot of sense. But I hear many having the expected results in 24-48hrs. So short cuts don't work well?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Ok. This makes a lot of sense. But I hear many having the expected results in 24-48hrs. So short cuts don't work well?

Not in my experience. Hardest part is waiting. Really don't need the carb stone lid. Simply use the gas in post on the keg.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Ok. This makes a lot of sense. But I hear many having the expected results in 24-48hrs. So short cuts don't work well?

Its not a short cut its a shorter way of doing it and it works perfect at least a million times....I rounded up

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Its not a short cut its a shorter way of doing it and it works perfect at least a million times....I rounded up

I took "So short cuts don't work well?" to mean shaking the keg or connecting the CO2 to the beer out post.

 

[Alex4mula]

Ok. So two methods. Kind of getting to what I have been finding in my searches. Different methods. I guess either way my main question now is if I can follow either with the carb stone I have. Can I? Thanks for the quick responses ;-)

 

[Alex4mula]

I took "So short cuts don't work well?" to mean shaking the keg or connecting the CO2 to the beer out post.

By "short cut" I was referring to the 24hr method above instead of the 4 days. Sorry. Thanks

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Ok. So two methods. Kind of getting to what I have been finding in my searches. Different methods. I guess either way my main question now is if I can follow either with the carb stone I have. Can I? Thanks for the quick responses ;-)

Carb stone, in theory, gets the CO2 into the beer instead of having the CO2 merge into the beer from the top. Does this really make a difference? Give it a try and let us know.

Instead of connecting the CO2 line to the gas in post connect the CO2 line to the carb stone connection.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Remember the carb stone contains thousands of small holes all waiting to contain bacteria and other things bad for our beer. Therefore, ensure the carb stone is completely cleaned and sanitized before each use.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I took "So short cuts don't work well?" to mean shaking the keg or connecting the CO2 to the beer out post.

Shaking the beer and your drinking in 5 minutes. 40 psi and your drinking the next day. Most are willing to wait the next day to drink their beer. I've never trusted shaking for whatever reason and 18 hours means I'm drinking the beer tomorrow and thats good enough for me....plus shaking your beer is disrespectful to your beer

Not being able to wait till tomorrow to drink your beer is a noob kegging move

I would return the stone and save your money...not needed unless you need instant satisfaction which I think is what the stone is for

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

By "short cut" I was referring to the 24hr method above instead of the 4 days. Sorry. Thanks

Problem with 24 hour method is you have zero control over the actual level of carbonation. In other words you are blasting it with a LOT of CO2 and then backing off. Will this carbonate the beer. Probably. Will you get glasses of mostly foam? Initially, yes.

Hookup, set to proper psi (based on the temp and chart) and wait about 5 days.

 

[Alex4mula]

..
Not being able to wait till tomorrow to drink your beer is a noob kegging move

I would return the stone and save your money...not needed unless you need instant satisfaction which I think is what the stone is for

I can wait one day. But why wait if I can get results earlier? If the stone can do that then why not? I'm just trying to find the right way or maybe best way(s) with the equipment I have.

 

[TheHopfather]

When I keg I hook the gas up to the gas post at 30 psi. I wait 24 to 36 hours and then lower to serving pressure (~12 psi). I usually wait another day or two after that before serving so I don't bother venting the pressure. If you want to drink immediately vent the head space before trying a pour. The beer is mostly carbed up after 36 hours. It really depends on how big of a hurry you are in.

If you want to drink the beer RIGHT NOW you can use the shake method. I don't particularly like that method, but you can do it. I wouldn't go with ~30 psi or whatever people are recommending these days. Just set your regulator to serving pressure and roll or shake the keg for a while. You can hear the gas going into the beer, stop rolling/shaking when the keg stops accepting more gas. This way you can't end up over carbonating the beer. Keep in the mind the beer needs to be at your serving temp for this method to work.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Problem with 24 hour method is you have zero control over the actual level of carbonation. In other words you are blasting it with a LOT of CO2 and then backing off. Will this carbonate the beer. Probably. Will you get glasses of mostly foam? Initially, yes.

Hookup, set to proper psi (based on the temp and chart) and wait about 5 days.

Thats not true. I've done it endless times. 18 to 24 hours is one the lower end of time but gets you close. I've never had an over carb or foam issue. If anything its its a bit under done but must be close because by the following day set at say 12 psi I'm right were the carb level should be.....all methods I listed work equally well its just how long do you feel like waiting. My beers are balanced by day 2 after 40 psi

 

[doug293cz]

If you want to use the carb stone, then use the @Nicegirl method. Using a carb stone at excessive pressure risks overcarbing the beer, and then you have to spend time getting the carb back down. If you want to geek out a little bit, I just wrote up something that gives some insight into why carb stones work faster.

Also, when purging the headspace it takes multiple pressurize and vent cycles to get the O2 content down to low ppm or ppb levels (13 cycles at 30 psi will get you under 1 ppm.) IPA's in particular are sensitive to total packaged O2 levels higher than 0.15 ppm. Stouts and porters are less sensitive, so you could get away with fewer purge cycles. If you can do a liquid purge and closed transfer from the fermenter, that is the best for O2 minimization, but that is probably to much to take on for a newbie kegger.

Brew on

 

[balrog]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/92av5c/no_purge_burst_carbonation_calculator/

CO2 into liquid is chem reaction and this read is one of few places where time temp volume beer and volume keg were used. Just another read. But interesting.

 

[Alex4mula]

Thanks all. Reporting back my results. I went ahead with Nicegirl process. Results where perfect but took 60hrs. I think I know why. I took a sample after 24hrs and it had minimal carbonation. At 48hrs it was ok but not perfect. Not much foam. Then 12hrs later it was great. I think the main reason it took a little longer was that I miscalculated the beer temperature. I used the table pressure setting assuming 34°-36°F beer temp but I think it was closer to 40°-42°F. So I was about 4psi low. But still at the end it came out great and all my friends liked it. I can't complain for my first ever brew

 

[gunhaus]

JOHNNYROTTEN'S method is proven and has been used in one form or another by many folks on here for years. I myself go with 30 psi for 24 hours. I do shake the keg from time to time more out of old habit than anything - it has worked the same without the shaking. After 24 hours the beer is carbed and no foaming issues. I feel it is a bit under what i like, and personally I set to serving pressure after the initial 24 and leave it to even out for 2 days. It is drinkable at 24 hours I just like it better with the 2 day rest at serving pressure. It has not failed me yet! But it has only been a couple decades so it could happen . . . .

 

[Alex4mula]

JOHNNYROTTEN'S method is proven and has been used in one form or another by many folks on here for years. I myself go with 30 psi for 24 hours. I do shake the keg from time to time more out of old habit than anything - it has worked the same without the shaking. After 24 hours the beer is carbed and no foaming issues. I feel it is a bit under what i like, and personally I set to serving pressure after the initial 24 and leave it to even out for 2 days. It is drinkable at 24 hours I just like it better with the 2 day rest at serving pressure. It has not failed me yet! But it has only been a couple decades so it could happen . . . .

Sure. I may try it some day. I quickly found out that this is one thing that many have their own way and that several different ways just work fine. Just pick one an go ;-)

 

[Aliensrgr8]

Hi, I just started kegging and I have a quick question when force carbonating using doing JohnnyRotten's method. Do you leave the gas hooked up to the keg while it is at 30/40 PSI for 18 to 24 hours or is it disconnected?

My first keg took too long to carbonate. I did the long carbonation method and had it set to 12 psi at 40°. It took almost 2 weeks to finally carbonate. However I still felt that the beer could of had more carbonation as most was released with in 5 minutes of pouring.

The lengthy time was was my own fault as I thought I had a leak when I ran out of gas overnight. I bought my setup second hand and I did not realize that a tank with less than 600 psi is almost empty. I kept turning off the CO2 and disconnecting the gas line to help locate the non-issue. My gas setup would only lose pressure when connected to a liquid/beer filled keg. It turned out pressure was dropping when the keg was connected due to it being pulled into the liquid/beer and equalizing pressure.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

Hi, I just started kegging and I have a quick question when force carbonating using doing JohnnyRotten's method. Do you leave the gas hooked up to the keg while it is at 30/40 PSI for 18 to 24 hours or is it disconnected?

My first keg took too long to carbonate. I did the long carbonation method and had it set to 12 psi at 40°. It took almost 2 weeks to finally carbonate. However I still felt that the beer could of had more carbonation as most was released with in 5 minutes of pouring.

The lengthy time was was my own fault as I thought I had a leak when I ran out of gas overnight. I bought my setup second hand and I did not realize that a tank with less than 600 psi is almost empty. I kept turning off the CO2 and disconnecting the gas line to help locate the non-issue. My gas setup would only lose pressure when connected to a liquid/beer filled keg. It turned out pressure was dropping when the keg was connected due to it being pulled into the liquid/beer and equalizing pressure.

I keep mine connected. I set it at 30 psi with it fully connected. The next day I hook up the tap and take a sample, simply because I'm incredibly impatient. The first few ounces of sludge get tossed, then I drink a half pint. It's undercarbonated but I get a sense for the taste. The following day I drink a pint and it's typically good, but could use a little more carbonation. By day 3, it's usually ready.

 

[doug293cz]

Yes, you need to leave the gas connected, and turned on for carbonation to complete.

1 volume of carbonation is equal to 1.977 g/L of CO2 dissolved in the beer. If you start with 5 gallons of beer, or 18.9 L, then 2.5 volumes = 2.5 * 1.977 g/L = 4.69 g/L of CO2. 18.9 L will then need 18.9 L * 4.69 g/L = 88.7 g of CO2 dissolved in the beer. At the end of an ale fermentation you will have about 0.88 volumes of carbonation to start with, or 0.88 * 1.977 g/L * 18.9 = 32.9 g of dissolved CO2. Thus in order to finish carbonation, you have to add 88.7 g - 32.9 g = 55.8 g of CO2.

So, if you wanted to put enough CO2 in the headspace to carb with the CO2 tank turned off, the headspace would have to contain 55.8 g of CO2, plus the CO2 required to maintain the headspace pressure. For 2.5 volumes @ 38°F the headspace pressure needs to be about 11.3 psi at the end of carbonation, which works out to 4.5 g of CO2 in the headspace. So, at the beginning of carbonation the headspace would need to contain 55.8 g + 4.5 g = 60.3 g of CO2. The headspace in a "5" gal keg filled with 5 gal of beer is about 0.35 gal, or 1.3 L. This 1.3 L of headspace would need to contain 60.3 g of CO2, which works out to a pressure of 23.5 atmospheres absolute, or 330 psi gauge pressure.

The takeaway is that you cannot put enough pressure into the headspace of a "full" keg to carbonate without leaving the CO2 on.

If anyone wants to go thru the pain of analyzing the situation for a half full keg let me know.

Brew on

 

[Alex4mula]

..

If anyone wants to go thru the pain of analyzing the situation for a half full keg let me know.

Brew on

I do because my next batch like the first one will be about 3.5gal in the keg. Maybe another reason why my stone carb took a little longer.

 

[Alex4mula]

My second brew (light ale) finished early. Yeah! So I went through the same carb process (Nicegirl). Last time I think a problem for the delay was that I miscalculated the beer temp. I took measurement of another beer I had in the fridge and was more around 40°F than 34°F. So this time I added 4psi more and ended up at 17psi for final pressure. After 24hrs it was perfectly carbonated! I'm very happy with this beer. Came out super delicious! Loving this new hobby