PicoBrew Zymatic

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Greg R said:
Thanks. I did reply. Have you ever had any indication of where the glycol in the loop is going?
Click to expand...

No one has ever found a leak. I think it just atomizes into a fine vapor around the connection points as steam. Not worried that it is going into the wort because I pressure tested my HEX and it held for a week. I do have a sample to send to the lab, but I've been too busy to package it up and send it off.
 
I added extra tubing up to and around the top of the machine as a reservoir, filled it up and then capped it. I'm still losing glycol and I haven't even used the machine!
After I lost about 1 oz I decided to top it off and add blue food coloring to see it is was leaking through the heat exchanger. After it lost about another 1.5 oz (a month?) I ran the drain and then recirculate cycles. No blue. Confident it isn't leaking thru the HEX.
Its crazy. I hate to pull it all apart for the 4th time, but I'll post any results if I do and find the leak...
 
Honestly, this thing wasn't built to last. However, with basic maintenance and PM's it will. I have implemented a complete tear down and rebuild on a yearly basis as well as a 3 month deep clean process. To start out I replaced all of the tubing, redid all of the connections, dismantled and cleaned the RIMS tube, deep cleaned the HEX in a PBW soak, tore down and relubed the stepper arm as well as replaced both pumps. Pump heads will be dismantled and cleaned every 3 months along with the RIMS and HEX. Its a small price to pay for a good, clean working machine.
 
Mike Howard said:
Follow up from glycol topoff

Here is the data from my pre and post glycol topoff in the HEX loop. Chart 1 is before I added the glycol and just prior to getting the Fatal Error #17. It starts at the Heat to 90 step due to several Fatal Error #1's and me having to stop and restart and skip steps. You can see that the difference between the two data lines is quite large at times and the peaks are nearly 30 degrees apart.

View attachment 591080

Chart 2 is after I added nearly 1/2 cup glycol mixture. I added about 1/3 of a cup, then ran the glycol pump for about 5 minutes and then repeated my procedure for getting all of the air into the tube between the sensor and the HEX. While the glycol pump is running, I listen for air bubbles and pump cavitation, letting me know it needs more glycol. Total liquid added was just shy of 1/2 cup.

Here my peak temps are only about 5 - 10 degrees apart and the recipe started and finished without error. Temps were much more stable and there weren't any erratic behaviors that I observed.

View attachment 591081

I use this Heat Cycle recipe I created, originally for testing, but now for two reasons.

First, I continue to use this recipe to check the state of my HEX loop. I download the raw data and have been inputting it into my analysis software to track things like peak temps, time to reach temps, total time for recipe, etc...I've been trying to build a MTBF for the HEX loop and general HEX issues and just alert me to times like this when I need to perform maintenance. I don't have enough data right now to tell me that an error is imminent, but now that I have topped off, the data I collect will show me the degradation ramp and hopefully I can publish a MTBF at that time.

Secondly, I use this recipe to cut off about 30 minutes from my brew day. The first thing I do on my brew day is measure out my water, get it into the keg and start the Heat Cycle recipe. While the Zymatic is heating the water to temp, I grind my grains and measure my hops and perform whatever random tasks I need to. When the recipe alerts me, I add my loaded step filter into the Zymatic and run my brew recipe. Since the water is already around 102F, it goes into "Dough In" almost right away.

Here is the Advanced Editor grab if anyone is interested. Would be interesting to see some folks take this recipe and run it so we can compare behaviors. Heck, it may even help you to understand if you have a HEX issue that might be getting ready to spoil your brew day. If you do want to run this and compare, I use a 5 gallon plastic bucket filled with 34 lbs of tap water. My tap water here in Texas is around 68F - 70F degrees this time of year. If you use any other container or any other amount, your results may be different from what I get. I perform this test in my brewhouse which is usually kept at 68F degrees.

View attachment 591082

It's been my experience that the Heat Loop and Wort temps should track fairly well and be within 10 degrees of each other. Of course, that is just for this test recipe, that data will differ depending upon the target temp and liquid. Besides, in any test you want to control as many variables as you can and why this recipe is important as a verification. Feel free to add a few 5F degree steps before step 0 depending upon what your starting water temp is. The idea is to keep the Zymatic within 5F degrees so the steps are even and consistent.

If you aren't going to brew after this recipe runs, I typically go into Help and run the Circulate for about 10 minutes to let the Zymatic cool down just a bit.

If you have any questions about getting to your HEX loop, let me know through PM and I'll try to help you.
Click to expand...
 
Never have any errors on my Zymatic since implementing my PM cycle and I don't need to use that Heat Cycle program any longer. Its a good stop gap to get you by until you can fix the issue though.
 
Mike (thanks again!) kindly sent me his guide to tear down the Zymatic in the correct order to access to the bottom part of the machine. I continuously get fatal error #1 and it's probably time to check the glycol level in the loop. Since I'm not going to disassemble the Z if not strictly necessary, I want to upgrade it to be able to refill the glycol more easily. Looking around, I just realized that the solution is in the case of my desktop computer: the reservoir of my CPU water cooler. I did a quick research and I found two products that might work:

1) This little Water Tank that requires the switch of its fitting with these of larger diameter (9mm). It should fit the rear right corner of the Zymatic by moving slightly the grounding cable bolt and it will be accessible by simply removing the rear panel.

2) Alternatively, this cylindrical water reservoir that can fit vertically next to the wort entrance on the right wall, and could potentially be fed by adding a filling port on the top panel.

I ordered both and will post pictures as soon as I finish the job...
 
I've been remiss in not putting together my mod document and posting what I have done to my Zymatic, I've honestly just been very busy and the lockdown has the brewery trying to keep up. I was also hoping to get the RPi mod completed before publishing my mod document.

In the meantime, here are the main components:

Here is the tank I have used as my glycol reservoir.

Plate Chiller

Pumps

I replaced all of the tubing and fittings and most of you know I already replaced the RIMS element and associated wiring.
 
I just wanted to give my deepest thanks publicly to Mike Howard. I PM'd him and he sent me his very detailed instructions for refilling the glycol loop. I ran a clean and it worked beautifully. I had no errors. Previously, I was unable to even get past 2 minutes of the heating cycle during a cleaning session.

I do have another problem and was wondering if anyone has any ideas. While I was running the cleaning cycle, I noticed a steady drip of water coming from the front side of the machine. I used a flashlight to look between the step filter and the step arm. I saw that on the right part of the machine, under the step arm, it wasn't quite over the hole and seemed to be pouring right over the rubber plug. That's where the leak seems to be. I moved the filter to the left a little and that seemed to stop the leak a little. Does anyone have any ideas?
 
bejazzpiano said:
I just wanted to give my deepest thanks publicly to Mike Howard. I PM'd him and he sent me his very detailed instructions for refilling the glycol loop. I ran a clean and it worked beautifully. I had no errors. Previously, I was unable to even get past 2 minutes of the heating cycle during a cleaning session.

I do have another problem and was wondering if anyone has any ideas. While I was running the cleaning cycle, I noticed a steady drip of water coming from the front side of the machine. I used a flashlight to look between the step filter and the step arm. I saw that on the right part of the machine, under the step arm, it wasn't quite over the hole and seemed to be pouring right over the rubber plug. That's where the leak seems to be. I moved the filter to the left a little and that seemed to stop the leak a little. Does anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...

Indeed Mike has been an invaluable member for us Zymatic owners.
 
So I picked the absolute worst time to bring my Zymatic out of retirement. Fatal Error #1 as soon as I start a clean cycle, and even just running circulate doesn't achieve anything. I can hear the pump trying but no water movement. Does anyone have ideas? @Bob Coco ?

I've checked:
-keg in: the little white mfl gasket's in place, the inline filter is clean (is there a removable gasket here I'm missing? I only see the orange built-in one).
-keg itself: liquid out gasket's in place, keg post has the poppet spring & little widget in place. the liquid out black ball lock disconnect's all good too.
-keg: filled with 1.5gal water
-keg out: line's connected, the mfl gasket's in place

Things I've tried:
-removing the insides of the ball lock disconnect and the keg post seal in order to completely open up the water path for both in and out - no effect
-took the keg out of the equation by swapping in the keg wands for in and out - no effect
-imaginging there really might be a removable gasket missing in the inline filter, i tried swapping the hoses so that the "in" side on the zymatic is the grey (no filter) hose and the "out" side has the inline filter - no effect.

I've also noticed there's some kind of noise constantly audible while the zymatic is on - and it's not the normal whirring sound I remember. Low pitch almost like a gurgle.
 
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aangel said:
So I picked the absolute worst time to bring my Zymatic out of retirement. Fatal Error #1 as soon as I start a clean cycle, and even just running circulate doesn't achieve anything. I can hear the pump trying but no water movement. Does anyone have ideas? @Bob Coco ?

I've checked:
-keg in: the little white mfl gasket's in place, the inline filter is clean (is there a removable gasket here I'm missing? I only see the orange built-in one).
-keg itself: liquid out gasket's in place, keg post has the poppet spring & little widget in place. the liquid out black ball lock disconnect's all good too.
-keg: filled with 1.5gal water
-keg out: line's connected, the mfl gasket's in place

Things I've tried:
-removing the insides of the ball lock disconnect and the keg post seal in order to completely open up the water path for both in and out - no effect
-took the keg out of the equation by swapping in the keg wands for in and out - no effect
-imaginging there really might be a removable gasket missing in the inline filter, i tried swapping the hoses so that the "in" side on the zymatic is the grey (no filter) hose and the "out" side has the inline filter - no effect.

I've also noticed there's some kind of noise constantly audible while the zymatic is on - and it's not the normal whirring sound I remember. Low pitch almost like a gurgle.
Click to expand...


I had the same problem about a year ago. I hadn't used my zymatic in awhile and I pulled it out to brew a batch but decided I'd do a circulate first. It wouldn't even pull any water into the machine. I assume that's the same problem you're having? As long as you think all of the gaskets are good and the hoses are hooked up correctly, you can try the following. It was recommended to my by Kevin at Picobrew and it worked. I've actually had to do it twice, especially since I live in a very hot area, I store my machine in the garage and the water probably evaporates from the system.

1. Fill the keg with about 2 gallons of water.
2. Hook up the in and out hoses from the Zymatic to the keg
3. Put the step filter into the Zymatic. No screens or top are necessary.
4. This next step is usually NOT recommended, but in this case it's ok. Put the regular keg lid, not the rubber one for brewing, but the metal one with the bail lock on it that you use for carbonating and serving. Lock it closed.
5. Turn on the Zymatic and run a "Circulate" session.
6. As soon as you see water coming through the "In" side port where there's a clear "t" valve for adding hop oil or taking samples, etc. and/or you hear water draining back into the keg, release the pressure on the keg lid valve and take the lid off.
7. Let the system circulate for about 5 minutes just to be sure it's working properly.

This MIGHT be a solution for you. I hope it works.
 
Thanks @bejazzpiano for the tip. Didn't work for me though. I ran it for 3 minutes in that state, no water movement :(

bejazzpiano said:
I had the same problem about a year ago. I hadn't used my zymatic in awhile and I pulled it out to brew a batch but decided I'd do a circulate first. It wouldn't even pull any water into the machine. I assume that's the same problem you're having? As long as you think all of the gaskets are good and the hoses are hooked up correctly, you can try the following. It was recommended to my by Kevin at Picobrew and it worked. I've actually had to do it twice, especially since I live in a very hot area, I store my machine in the garage and the water probably evaporates from the system.

1. Fill the keg with about 2 gallons of water.
2. Hook up the in and out hoses from the Zymatic to the keg
3. Put the step filter into the Zymatic. No screens or top are necessary.
4. This next step is usually NOT recommended, but in this case it's ok. Put the regular keg lid, not the rubber one for brewing, but the metal one with the bail lock on it that you use for carbonating and serving. Lock it closed.
5. Turn on the Zymatic and run a "Circulate" session.
6. As soon as you see water coming through the "In" side port where there's a clear "t" valve for adding hop oil or taking samples, etc. and/or you hear water draining back into the keg, release the pressure on the keg lid valve and take the lid off.
7. Let the system circulate for about 5 minutes just to be sure it's working properly.

This MIGHT be a solution for you. I hope it works.
Click to expand...
 
Hi all, I'm in the same boat as most of you with the hex loop/fatal error#1/glycol issue. If anyone has the zymatic tear down instructions to fix the hex loop/glycol issue could you please email to me at [email protected]? Thank you thank you thank you in advance!!
 
ryojin said:
Hi all, I'm in the same boat as most of you with the hex loop/fatal error#1/glycol issue. If anyone has the zymatic tear down instructions to fix the hex loop/glycol issue could you please email to me at [email protected]? Thank you thank you thank you in advance!!
Click to expand...

Likewise, my email address is [email protected] if there's instructions available for breakdown & deep clean.
 
aangel said:
So I picked the absolute worst time to bring my Zymatic out of retirement. Fatal Error #1 as soon as I start a clean cycle, and even just running circulate doesn't achieve anything. I can hear the pump trying but no water movement. Does anyone have ideas? @Bob Coco ?
Click to expand...

@aangel The cause for the FE#1 could be low glycol and the cause of the gurgling, however the pumps that Picobrew uses are diaphragm pumps and after sitting for a very long time the silicone pump valves can get stuck. Can you just run a circulate without heat? If while running a circulate you can't get flow get back to me and I'll help you get it running. There is almost nothing we can't fix, even if we need to replace a pump head....
 
Mike Howard said:
@aangel The cause for the FE#1 could be low glycol and the cause of the gurgling, however the pumps that Picobrew uses are diaphragm pumps and after sitting for a very long time the silicone pump valves can get stuck. Can you just run a circulate without heat? If while running a circulate you can't get flow get back to me and I'll help you get it running. There is almost nothing we can't fix, even if we need to replace a pump head....
Click to expand...

Ok, so just found some success, will be continuing troubleshooting when I get home. I tried the picobrew website troubleshooting steps, and they didn't work but at the very end, with a VERY pressurized keg, I tried firing up the circulate program and it worked. I think you were right about the silicon pump valves getting stuck.

In general any documentation you have about disassembly / self repair would be amazing, as I really really want my Zymatic to live on...even if Picobrew doesn't.
 
@Mike Howard I used your instructions to refill the glycol and my old Z is now running like new. I did a ramp up test and the 3 curves are quite stables:

Capture.PNG


Many thanks for your help! Next step is the installation of the reservoir

@aangel : glad to hear that you fixed the pump. The next time you can also take a syringe full of hot water and prime the pumps by pushing it through the IN entrance of the wort or from the drain port inside the machine (not the OUT port). The valve is probably just stucked by old sugar and hot water will melt it.
 
ryojin said:
Hi all, I'm in the same boat as most of you with the hex loop/fatal error#1/glycol issue. If anyone has the zymatic tear down instructions to fix the hex loop/glycol issue could you please email to me at [email protected]? Thank you thank you thank you in advance!!
Click to expand...
SHE'S ALIVE! My Zymatic works like new again. Thanks for your helpful tips & teardown guide @Mike Howard!
Now to just add a reservoir similar to others have described and I should be good to go for the next time.
 
Anastasio said:
I added extra tubing up to and around the top of the machine as a reservoir, filled it up and then capped it. I'm still losing glycol and I haven't even used the machine!
After I lost about 1 oz I decided to top it off and add blue food coloring to see it is was leaking through the heat exchanger. After it lost about another 1.5 oz (a month?) I ran the drain and then recirculate cycles. No blue. Confident it isn't leaking thru the HEX.
Its crazy. I hate to pull it all apart for the 4th time, but I'll post any results if I do and find the leak...
Click to expand...
Im supper interested in your results!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Anastasio said:
I added extra tubing up to and around the top of the machine as a reservoir, filled it up and then capped it. I'm still losing glycol and I haven't even used the machine!
After I lost about 1 oz I decided to top it off and add blue food coloring to see it is was leaking through the heat exchanger. After it lost about another 1.5 oz (a month?) I ran the drain and then recirculate cycles. No blue. Confident it isn't leaking thru the HEX.
Its crazy. I hate to pull it all apart for the 4th time, but I'll post any results if I do and find the leak...
Click to expand...
I'm super interested in your results. Please let us know if you end up finding the leak!
 
Yea, I've never found a leak but replacing all of the tubing and switching all of the plastic connectors to Stainless Steel has improved the glycol retention. I do have a reservoir so it is harder to tell now, but I have not had to top it off once yet since installation.
 
Mike Howard said:
Yea, I've never found a leak but replacing all of the tubing and switching all of the plastic connectors to Stainless Steel has improved the glycol retention. I do have a reservoir so it is harder to tell now, but I have not had to top it off once yet since installation.
Click to expand...
Do you think something like this would work for a reservoir: My plan is to add a "T" connector to the same glycol line that I had to fill, and then run this tubing up to where it is more accessible. I've added a valve to the tubing to make opening it pretty easy. The question is, is it best practice to fill the "reservoir" to the very top where the valve or plug will be? I'm assuming not doing so will inadvertently create more air bubbles?
photo of tubing + valve:
https://www.icloud.com/photos/#0Ytdd7hdWx1_RUkR82QnDunZA
 
@ryojin any reservoir you add I would think must come before the glycol pump and immediately after the HEX. This way, air is prevented from reaching the pump and causing cavitation. The problem with a reservoir like this is that with the pump running, it is not very efficient at trapping air before it gets to the pump. It would most likely trap some and over time may capture it all, but you'll have to monitor it to make sure.
 
Yep, writing on the wall for years and all of their crap finally caught up to them... This quote from the article is the best news I've heard in years "And yesterday, the founder team (Bill Mitchell, his brother Jim Mitchell and Avi Geiger) was let go, along with the customer service team. " Not everyone at PB was horrible, but two guys in particular had a hand in its failure.

It's no big deal though, my Zymatic has been running issue free since I started my own maintenance and cleaning regimen along with a few needed mods. It does mean that I'll need to accelerate my RPi development...
 

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