Picobrew Z

[doublea]

Lots of good perspectives here today. I tend to side with the "it's fine" crowd, when I got over the surprise, especially because I plan to mostly brew smaller, 3-4g batches but want the option of a 5g. I want to brew more variety to perfect my recipes so maybe this will just push me to doing more double brew days.

I liked my zymatic and wanted a more reliable version, so I'm hoping the Z2 meets that bar. They have clearly come a long way in design since the early zymatic days with all of their new machines. I had lots of small problems but agree support was always excellent and I never had some of the crazy issues I've read about with Brewie+ that scared me off.

As far as cleaning on "double" z2 batches, I wonder if there might be a solution with a 10g keg and some simple tubing. You were always going to have to clean both step filters, so I am confused by anyone who is surprised by that.

 

[Anyhowe]

• Assembly Screws
• Screwdriver
• Step filter plug (what are these, anyways?)
• Drain tube
• Drain tube grommet
• Syringe
• Bottle of anti-foam
• Fast fermentation adapter
• Dishwasher tablet

Damn. I am surprised they don’t next day these to you. The plug reduces the flow out of the step filter. The pumps are very strong. It worked with and without for me. Better with it in. Apparently one keeps it open for Zpacs and SV. Again I am SURE they will expidite these.

 

[Thorrak]

Damn. I am surprised they don’t next day these to you. The plug reduces the flow out of the step filter. The pumps are very strong. It worked with and without for me. Better with it in. Apparently one keeps it open for Zpacs and SV. Again I am SURE they will expidite these.

They already said they would expedite, I’m just annoyed because I don’t think they’ll arrive in time for the days I took off.

 

[cheesemonster]

Sorry to hear that Thorrak! For a while now I've just considered my machine vaporware but now that real units are going out and my Z2 is now less than a month away supposedly, l am excited. Look forward to seeing what everyone does with the new machine

 

[cheesemonster]

As far as cleaning on "double" z2 batches, I wonder if there might be a solution with a 10g keg and some simple tubing. You were always going to have to clean both step filters, so I am confused by anyone who is surprised by that.

Yes I will probably do that for 5g batches. The reason I like 5g batches is I can fill my kegs and use yeast efficiently. I wasn't surprised because obviously the machine looked like 2 newer zymatics all along, I was just disappointed it wasn't something where 5 gals could be done at once without cleaning all that stuff. Initially I was even considering the z4 until I saw it was 4 filters and kegs.

But now that I think about it the separation is nice for tweaking recipes. So I can brew 2.5 gallons or so of the same beer and try slight variations and split the yeast at the end!

 

[Munchman]

Man that sucks. Sorry to hear that. Mine is supposed to ship next week but bet that won’t happen now. Sounds like they have a QC issue to resolve.

Worse that you got all excited though and it wasn’t usable. Hope they compensate you in some way.

WELP.

My Z arrived today - except that they forgot a bunch of parts which means that it's unusable. Especially frustrating since I have vacation days booked next week specifically to brew.

Apparently this is an issue with most of the Z's that shipped last week - an email is supposed to be forthcoming.

 

[Thorrak]

Man that sucks. Sorry to hear that. Mine is supposed to ship next week but bet that won’t happen now. Sounds like they have a QC issue to resolve.

Worse that you got all excited though and it wasn’t usable. Hope they compensate you in some way.

It sounds like in this case the issue was "someone on the packing line forgot to toss a bag of parts in the box", so I'm guessing the only delay this would add is if they need to reopen & check any boxes that have been packed but not yet shipped. Annoying, but it's not quite the same level as "powder coat falling into beer"

As much as I had hoped to brew this weekend, as long as the parts get here by/on Tuesday, I'm a happy camper. Otherwise, I'll need to get Doug to explain to my boss why it's not suspicious that I took a sick day the day after two days off.

 

[Ewelady]

It sounds like in this case the issue was "someone on the packing line forgot to toss a bag of parts in the box", so I'm guessing the only delay this would add is if they need to reopen & check any boxes that have been packed but not yet shipped. Annoying, but it's not quite the same level as "powder coat falling into beer"

As much as I had hoped to brew this weekend, as long as the parts get here by/on Tuesday, I'm a happy camper. Otherwise, I'll need to get Doug to explain to my boss why it's not suspicious that I took a sick day the day after two days off.

Me too! Same batch of stuff. Got the bag yesterday and today I put the machine together and got it someone running. What the heck are the little thin rubber bands for? Where do we use the foam catching gadget? Do they seriously call that a manual? I want to brew beer not email with a million questions.

Had a deal of difficulty with the stainless screw on one side. I think tomorrow I will pull that stainless trim off and run over to the machine shop and grind it down a tad. Hate to just leave the screw out but someone didn't cut this piece of stainless square.

 

[alaric10000]

From Zymatic experience:
Foam trap, put some anti-foam on the felt circle, put it on the plastic circle attached to the long thin metal pole. Put the pole long-side down into the middle of the black plastic cylinder, push the whole thing into the hole in the rubber seal that goes on the mouth of the keg during brewing.

You can totally ignore it if you want, you really only get a foam-over if you have have extra air in the lines from a loose fitting or a really long circulate during chilling. Easy to avoid by double-checking all your connections and you'd probably notice during the pre-brew rinse. For chilling you've got a ton of options: Grab a jaded corny pillar, just put some sanitized foil over your keg opening and no-chill, use a little less tap water and more ice during a regular chill cycle to cool faster....

The silicone bands are to help hold the hop cages closed if you have them packed really full or the lids are getting loose. I've never had to use them; in fact, I often have a little bit of hassle getting them open after a brew because the lids fit pretty tightly and the ridge sticking up on the lid isn't great for grabbing onto.

 

[Thorrak]

Me too! Same batch of stuff. Got the bag yesterday and today I put the machine together and got it someone running. What the heck are the little thin rubber bands for? Where do we use the foam catching gadget? Do they seriously call that a manual? I want to brew beer not email with a million questions.

Had a deal of difficulty with the stainless screw on one side. I think tomorrow I will pull that stainless trim off and run over to the machine shop and grind it down a tad. Hate to just leave the screw out but someone didn't cut this piece of stainless square.

HEH. I was wondering the same with regards to the step filter plug... The thin rubber bands are the same as on the Zymatic - they're in case the lids on the hop cages don't seat properly. The foam catcher goes in the hole on the keg seal, which you place on top of the keg while brewing. TBQH, I never used it with the Zymatic - assuming it won't be necessary with the Z for most brews.

Is the stainless you're having issues with the piece on the left? If so, I'm in the same boat. Just sliiiiightly off. I was able to get the screw to seat though, so no worries - just looks slightly misaligned.

 

[Thorrak]

So I received the missing bag of parts this morning, and have my first brew underway now. First impressions are that they definitely took a lot of feedback on the Zymatic and improved things overall. The new top-draining step filter design makes me veeeerrry happy, as does the way that they drilled the hole between the hop & grain compartments. Overall, I'm hopeful that the step filters on the Z will last longer than the Zymatic ones did.

 

[Ewelady]

HEH. I was wondering the same with regards to the step filter plug... The thin rubber bands are the same as on the Zymatic - they're in case the lids on the hop cages don't seat properly. The foam catcher goes in the hole on the keg seal, which you place on top of the keg while brewing. TBQH, I never used it with the Zymatic - assuming it won't be necessary with the Z for most brews.

Is the stainless you're having issues with the piece on the left? If so, I'm in the same boat. Just sliiiiightly off. I was able to get the screw to seat though, so no worries - just looks slightly misaligned.

Never had a Zymatic only the Pico so the bands made no sense at all! And I agree, the lids are so tight and it's so awkward to get them out that was the last place I would have thought to use them.

 

[Ewelady]

Well the stainless was on the right so after some measurements I swapped it with the left and it's still the right that's just a little too tight. And no way can I get the screw in. I grabbed the keg seal from the Pico when I tried the foam catcher... it wasn't going in and now that I've tried it on the Z's seal it does go in but extremely snug.


But does the fan shut off without the switch on the back of the machine?

 

[Goblism]

Keep us posted on the first brews. I'm really curious what the efficiency is.

 

[Ewelady]

Keep us posted on the first brews. I'm really curious what the efficiency is.

going to take me time... grandkids coming for a visit and then I will have to catch up on everything and then I've got 130 lambs to be born. I hope I can get enough beer brewed to get me though all this. But it might be a while before the z gets used.

 

[Thorrak]

My first brew just finished - target OG at 65% efficiency was 1.058 -- I ended up landing at 1.0578. I would have preferred to have ended up a bit higher - I think I need to tighten my mill slightly.

 

[doublea]

My first brew just finished - target OG at 65% efficiency was 1.058 -- I ended up landing at 1.0578. I would have preferred to have ended up a bit higher - I think I need to tighten my mill slightly.

Did you run it in high efficiency mash?

 

[Thorrak]

Did you run it in high efficiency mash?

Yep.

I'm brewing again this weekend, and am not going to change anything - I'll post back with where the efficiency lands on that one.

 

[Munchman]

Are there any tutorials on the recipe crafter and advanced editor?

Mine is coming soon hopefully and I’ve no idea how to use any of that....

Yep.

I'm brewing again this weekend, and am not going to change anything - I'll post back with where the efficiency lands on that one.

 

[Anyhowe]

Yep.

I'm brewing again this weekend, and am not going to change anything - I'll post back with where the efficiency lands on that one.

I run the regular 1 step and have hit gravity each time. Not sure, wait I am sure, that’s what I care about regardless of efficiency.

Can someone tell me the grain difference between 65% and 80% on a 6% 2.5 gal beer? Thanks.

 

[Goblism]

On a 6% beer it is probably any extra 1.25-1.5 lbs of grain, depends on the grain though too.

Not a huge deal. I agree consistency is key but if I brew 15 batches a year that is ~20lbs of grain saved going from 65-80%

 

[Anyhowe]

On a 6% beer it is probably any extra 1.25-1.5 lbs of grain, depends on the grain though too.

Not a huge deal. I agree consistency is key but if I brew 15 batches a year that is ~20lbs of grain saved going from 65-80%

Thanks for the info. YMMV but I just officially stopped worrying about efficiency. Lol. I spill more than $20 a year.

 

[Thorrak]

I’d rather be in the 70-80% range, but I agree - consistency is key if I had to choose one or the other. I’ll see where this weekend’s Kolsch ends up to see if it remains consistent at 65% before I tighten the gap on my mill.

 

[brew-in]

Thanks to all who are posting about their Z experience.

Anyone who purchased a Z wish they splurged and forked over the extra $600 for a Z2?

 

[Mike Howard]

Beers brewed at 65% efficiency likely will have a flavor profile, that depending upon the palate, that will be noticeably different than beers brewed at 80%+. Extraction of the sugars isn't just about cost savings, which in the Z's case is minor, but its more about the efficiency of the recipe overall and your target should really be about 30ppg...over the years I have been able to tell a slight difference in the palate of two identical runs, one of which was 10 - 20 points under efficient. Hitting 80% efficiency should be the target of any machine and saying you'll live with less, IMO, means you care less about the quality of the beer....YMMV

 

[Mike Howard]

My first brew just finished - target OG at 65% efficiency was 1.058 -- I ended up landing at 1.0578. I would have preferred to have ended up a bit higher - I think I need to tighten my mill slightly.

Wait....you have a $3000 AntonPaar and you ferment in the keg?....I'd of guessed that you had a nice Spike CF5 or a Brewtech Chronical.

 

[cubsfan16]

I was looking at that too and was thinking the hydrometer cost more than the brewing system. Looks like a fun toy to have though.

 

[Thorrak]

Wait....you have a $3000 AntonPaar and you ferment in the keg?....I'd of guessed that you had a nice Spike CF5 or a Brewtech Chronical.

I admittedly have a small problem when it comes to collecting equipment to measure specific gravity - but in this case I just happened to get lucky with the DMA35. As far as fermenters go, I normally use an Anvil stainless bucket, but I’m saving that one for the Kolsch this weekend. That one has a thermowell, so it’s much easier to control fermentation temps accurately.

Don’t get me wrong though - if they made a 3 gallon chronical, I’d be all over it.

 

[Anyhowe]

So getting back to the individually stacked z1-z2 each powered by their own 120v or joint 240v, does this mean that we will likely never see a z3 or z4? I don’t know anyone with multiple 240 outlets or 4 120v circuits on a wall. Maybe I need cooler friends?

 

[Thorrak]

So getting back to the individually stacked z1-z2 each powered by their own 120v or joint 240v, does this mean that we will likely never see a z3 or z4? I don’t know anyone with multiple 240 outlets or 4 120v circuits on a wall. Maybe I need cooler friends?

There’s no wiring whatsoever in the bottom half of the Z1s, so I’d imagine no matter what you’re looking at having cables that go from each individual unit to a single “power distributor” box which is what then plugs into the wall.

That “power distributor” is basically a glorified surge protector.

 

[Lax coach]

That “power distributor” is basically a glorified surge protector.

Even that's overselling it--a surge protector would have MOSFETs and other circuitry in it to protect from overcurrent. I bet it's more of a glorified power strip, that merely connects one hot to two outlets, the other hot to the other two, and the neutral and ground to all 4. All wire, no other components in the path.

 

[Mike Howard]

Pop goes your breaker.....

 

[alaric10000]

Really, there's no such thing as a Z2, Z3, or Z4. It's just how many Z1s you own.

 

[TallDan]

Really, there's no such thing as a Z2, Z3, or Z4. It's just how many Z1s you own.

...which seemed pretty clear to me as soon as they showed the initial pictures. Sure, the original pics showed a different bezel and no display, but it was pretty clear it would be duplication of all of the internal components.

I'm sure you'll get a nice "Power Distribution Unit". Probably a Tripp-Lite with a Picobrew sticker on it.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Apart from the picture showing up in the feed catching my eye, i have little to add beyond....


If you can afford the DMA35, it's an awesome piece of equipmemt.

Of course between that and an AP CBox I would rather have the CBox. But that's $19k.

I've got both at work. The DMA35 we use for cold side only. It's easy to gum it up with wort, even thoroughly flushing with DI water after every use. Digital refract for hot side. But if you're brewing commercially and taking daily readings with product loss factored in vs hydrometer, the DMA pays for itself in no time.

Can't say I've ever seen someone use it at home though.

Love Anton Paar.

 

[Brewfreedom]

Anyone ran wireshark on these to see if they moved the api to https? Old zymatic was http so you could at least spoof a back end for when they ran out of cash and inbev money.

 

[Mutant]

Anybody been able to get their $600 for returning Zymatic?

 

[Thorrak]

Anybody been able to get their $600 for returning Zymatic?

I don’t think they’ve started the buyback program yet.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Likely would need to be further down the distribution track before they ask for zymatics back... Need to generate cash to give you

 

[Brewfreedom]

Anybody been able to get their $600 for returning Zymatic?

Yes via ebay. They move quick. Price it at $600 and it will move.