PEX Tubing - answers and pictures

[wwalrath520]

This is a long post but it's a good story so bear with me...

I could have bought Blichmann and looked like every other Tom, Dick, or Harry but I didn't. I'm just getting into doing all grain and want to set it up right. Consistency on brewday makes better beer.

I built a 2 level setup out of some spare lumber but got to thinking, "Good lord I do not want to lift my HLT with 170 F liquid up there." So I bought a chugger pump from my LBS but they don't sell any thermoplastic tubing and I don't like waiting or paying for shipping. So I stopped by my local Ace Hardware store, I looked at what they have to use that is:

1. Food Grade.
2. Won't get soft/develop kinks and can have valves connected for routing.
3. Can handle liquids at boiling temperature to help in the cleaning process.
4. Won't give off funky plastic flavor
5. Won't kill people from toxic chemicals leeching into the wort or water.

Nothing came remotely close to those requirements. Then I saw this stuff that looks like PVC called PEX. I Googled PEX, it's used for food grade plumbing, it can handle water up to 200 F, the connections are lead free brass slip on connections that can be taken off at any time so I can replace a line or clean everything out if need be. The only issue was the tubing was rate to 200 F @ 80 PSI. I don't approach 80 PSI with my pump wide open, maybe 10 at most. So I called the manufacturer (Sharkbite) and they told me that the tubing might suffer a structural failure at 212 F. I tell them I'm 212 F at 10 PSI and the tech says, "Then structurally you should be fine." The question of off flavoring and toxic byproducts may be a concern but the tubing won't break down at 212 F. As for off flavors, there was no data on file for what might happen to the water or wort going through at that temperature.

I hooked the pump to my kettle, thermoplastic tubing into the pump, PEX out the other side, up the platform and over into my HLT. I boiled the water, opened the valves, turned the pump on and cycled the water through the system for 10 minutes. I let it cool and tasted the water. It tasted like the stuff I had set aside as a control group.

Now I have added a second pump, a new burner (the old one turned my kettle black), and a boatload more PEX to rout wort or water to different places.

Cleaning it will be simple, run boiling water through the system with a quick rinse of StarSan. (Sharkbite looked at StarSan and said it should be fine if I used it as directed).

No copper, no welding, no more thermoplastic tubing that dries out in the desert or having to wait to order. (I did have to use 4 feet of TP tubing to hook to my plate chiller, I could have used PEX for it too but I didn't want to rent the tool from ACE to put the connectors in.) I probably will go back and do it later but I'm impatient.

I have some basic pictures taken but I need to shrink them to fit. If you have questions, let me know. I'm going to do a whole tutorial and such later this week.

 

[Fishn-tin-sean]

Awesome, thanks for sharing! My mind is now racing on my own unit now.

 

[wwalrath520]

Now I have to rig switches to turn my pumps on and off and put a filter inline before the pumps so they don't mulch any hops or other ingredients.

 

[501irishred]

Wow, that's a lot of Shark bite fittings! Very convenient for disassembly, but a ton of cash..........


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[brewinaround]

Very nice. Sharkbite is a bit spendy but i think its worth it in the long run.

 

[ShadyBrewer]

Looks great but you must've spent a mini fortune on all those fittings. Those things are crazy expensive. It does look nice and neat though. Good job


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[jcaudill]

PEX is crosslinked polyethylene (also referred to as XLPE). It is used in pretty much all new houses for hot and cold water. So there really is no question to the safety of using it for food applications.

Crosslinking polyethylene increases max temperature ratings up to around 300dF (but do not take this at face value because it highly depends on the grade). The grade of PEX that most of us can get a hold of at the LHS is typically rated up to 200dF, and 160PSI @ 70dF. The derating factor of PEX at 200dF is 0.5 - that means at 200dF a maximum of 80PSI operating pressure. Unfortunately, finding the derating factor above 200dF is next to impossible because PEX is not recommended for continuous use above 200dF. Let's just say that at 210dF the derating factor is to drop significantly to 0.1. That mean 210@16psi. March/Chugger pumps are not able to generate over 5-7PSI so this is well within' range. And this is not a continuous operation.

So PEX *should* be safe to use for short term at 210dF. But be aware you are still using it out of the range it is considered structurally safe so be extremely careful. This is boiling liquid capable of some serious scalding if it bursts. I know the manufacturer said it was ok but they have no liability in this case. You have to decide if it's worth the risk.

 

[wwalrath520]

The cost wasn't that bad. I factored in that I won't ever have to buy the valves again. I can reuse them and reconfigure them. Never having to pour anything hot ever again is worth it. Now that it works I get to rebuilt the brew stand in metal. The bigger point I was trying to make is that PEX works and it works well and I haven't seen anyone really say that yet.

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[jcaudill]

PEX has been discussed in the past on here along with CPVC. But the jury has always been out mainly due to people's willingness to risk a failure of a boiling hot pipe. That is only something you can decide for yourself.

Another reason you likely don't see it as much is most brewer's prefer stainless due to the chemical tolerance and resistance to corrosion. Also they prefer the flexibility of threaded, sanitary or quick-disconnect fittings rather than compression fittings.

It really just depends on your situation. I personally wouldn't use brass valves because then I have no ability to use caustic or acid - but in your case it's probably not as important (at least from what I can see).

 

[wwalrath520]

@Jcaudill Thanks for the reply.

Once I perfect the design I can replace every brass connection but the valves. As for willingness to risk failure, time and pressure @210 dF aren't that long. I've run 210 dF water for 25 minutes through the entire system to check for leaks and stress test before I brew. I don't plan on circulating boiling water or wort for long, if I'm pumping it's to the HLT or to the MT to dough in (not boiling temp) if I'm pumping wort, it's to the plate chiller and the pressure is going to be even more nominal.

As for cleaning, commercial breweries use stainless steel because anything other than that can't withstand the caustic used to clean the brew vessels. Brass would not hold up well with repeated caustic cleaning. For home brewing purposes, the strength and frequency of cleaning agents will not eat up the brass the same as a brewery.

 

[jcaudill]

I use caustic too I can't stand PBW and it is so harmful to sewage. But actually it's not the caustic it is the acid that will tear brass up. Anyway - given your situation I am sure you will be fine.

 

[herc1354]

Now I'm no engineer but in my line of work I deal will ratings, psi, torque, time in which a component will fail, etc...just about every limitation stated is underrated, meaning that a 200df rating on a component is likely NOT the failure point. An auto manufacture sets a timing belt change limit of 110k miles, that does not mean the timing belt will fail at 111k miles, my point is boiling is what 212df @ sea level, the minute the flame is cut off the temp falls below 212, if PEX is rated at 200df I'm sure it could probably handle 50df more at that same rated pressure. My reason for not using PEX is purely looks, when and if I hard plum my system it will be copper or stainless purely because I like the looks, it's shinny. PEX is simply....more simple, crimp connections, no soldering, no corrosion and it can be purchased from any home improvement store.

To the OP, great set up, looks great?


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[wwalrath520]

Thanks herc!

Used the system for the first time last night. Based on my math I think I got 75% efficiency, didn't lift anything and cooled from boil to pitching in 6 minutes. 5 hours later I had active fermentation. I love it when a plan comes together.

 

[TwoJays]

Glad to find some info on the sharkbite stuff here. I went to b'Lowes today to source parts for a dip tube and thanks to their lack of keeping up with inventory, I was only able to walk away with a brass sharkbite fitting to press my copper into. It turned out to look and feel fine in the end, but I've been curious about its ability to handle the high temperatures of a wort boil. Your efforts give me hope!

 

[wwalrath520]

I've brewed 4 batches and talk about smooth sailing. Holy CRAP.

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

 

[IslandLizard]

One more thing about PEX that wasn't mentioned. It will break down from exposure to light, UV being the biggest danger, but also from fluorescent lights or sunlight through basement or garage windows. Distance and intensity play a role.

Again there are exposure limits and you may never get anywhere close. You could wind silver duct tape around the PEX to block most of the harmful rays.

[Added]
Otherwise, PEX is a great product, and cheap not counting the Sharkbite fittings.

A hint, in your next design try to minimize the pipe lengths to reduce heat loss, retain pump head, and of course, only where it counts.
That run from the floor to the top of your HLT is huge! Pumps can mounted anywhere!

 

[NateLTB]

One more thing about PEX that wasn't mentioned. It will break down from exposure to light, UV being the biggest danger, but also from fluorescent lights or sunlight through basement or garage windows. Distance and intensity play a role.

Again there are exposure limits and you may never get anywhere close. You could wind silver duct tape around the PEX to block most of the harmful rays.

While it's true that UV will break it down you do not want to tape anything to the outside of the pipe as the chemicals in the tape are not good for the plastics in the pipe. If you can keep it out of direct sunlight you should be fine. I would also check to see what class the pex is. It should say Pex-A, Pex-B or Pex-C on the side of the tubing. Those designations will tell you how the pipe was made and whether or not the cross-linking was done at extraction or afterwards. I work for a plumbing, mechanical and industrial wholesaler and have been to one of our main pex suppliers headquarters. They test the piping (Pex-A) to twice the limits in the lab and almost all of it held up to that strength.

 

[ebstauffer]

I can't stand PBW and it is so harmful to sewage.

Reference?

 

[IslandLizard]

While it's true that UV will break it down you do not want to tape anything to the outside of the pipe as the chemicals in the tape are not good for the plastics in the pipe. If you can keep it out of direct sunlight you should be fine. I would also check to see what class the pex is. It should say Pex-A, Pex-B or Pex-C on the side of the tubing. Those designations will tell you how the pipe was made and whether or not the cross-linking was done at extraction or afterwards. I work for a plumbing, mechanical and industrial wholesaler and have been to one of our main pex suppliers headquarters. They test the piping (Pex-A) to twice the limits in the lab and almost all of it held up to that strength.

Sure, some adhesives can be harmful to plastics, maybe more than the UV itself. Under normal indoor conditions the UV breakdown may not reach safety thresholds until many years of use. How about that thin Aluminum tape used to seal ductwork? I think that's an acrylic adhesive.

You can always slide foam insulation sleeves over the PEX pipes.

I think the word is extrusion not extraction.

 

[NateLTB]

Sure, some adhesives can be harmful to plastics, maybe more than the UV itself. Under normal indoor conditions the UV breakdown may not reach safety thresholds until many years of use. How about that thin Aluminum tape used to seal ductwork? I think that's an acrylic adhesive.

You can always slide foam insulation sleeves over the PEX pipes.

I think the word is extrusion not extraction.

Yes, extrusion not extraction. It was a long day at work yesterday and at that point in the afternoon I was really craving some IPA.

I don't think you will have any problems with UV breakdown from the lighting inside. If you were storing your rig outdoors then UV would be a concern but you should be safe inside. Foam insulation would be the way to go if you really did want to block the UV, plus you would get the added bonus of keeping the material inside the piping closer to temperature.

Cheers!

 

[NateLTB]

I use caustic too I can't stand PBW and it is so harmful to sewage. But actually it's not the caustic it is the acid that will tear brass up. Anyway - given your situation I am sure you will be fine.

If PBW was harmful to sewage I seriously doubt that Five Star would recommend flushing spill residue into the sewer.

http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/PBWMSDS5.pdf