Oxidation - I'm about to give up on bottling from the keg

[cladinshadows]

I have been through so many iterations of bottling methods with so many wasted bottles of beer due to oxidation. How do normal people avoid it? Can somebody give me some tips on what I'm doing wrong?

Here's the different processes I've gone through with little success:

1) Bottling wand jammed into the cobra tap. Obviously didn't work too well, since I didn't purge or cap on foam.
2) Bottling wand jammed into cobra tap, but capped on foam. Worked OK, but hoppy and/or pale beers taste very oxidized (oxidized hops are BAD).
3) Blichmann Beer Gun, purged bottles, purged headspace. Still oxidized.
4) Blichmann Beer Gun, bottles completely filled with sanitizer and then purged out with CO2 from the beer gun, then filled. OXIDIZED.
5) 4) Blichmann Beer Gun, bottles completely filled with sanitizer and then purged out with CO2 from the beer gun, then filled, capped on foam. STILL OXIDIZED.


There is a clear difference in aroma and flavor between the bottled beer and the same beer from the keg. Can anyone give me some advice?

Thanks!

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Are your lines tight enough on your beergun? I had an issue with mine introducing air, but I never noticed oxidation. I've never had an issue with the beergun when it comes to flavor.

 

[jetmac]

Can you explain how it tastes to make you believe it is oxidized?

 

[brew2enjoy]

I just tried the homemade bottle filler from the sticky in this section. it worked great and the bottled beer tastes fine, but it's only been 5 days...

 

[Darwin18]

+1 on the homemade bottle filler. I've entered several beers into competition with it and all have received excellent scores. No mentions of oxidation in any of them. Are you sure you're capping on the foam correctly? The foam should purge any oxygen present.

 

[cladinshadows]

I'm not sure how I can confirm whether or not the lines are tight enough on the beergun... I've assembled it per the instructions and there aren't any obvious leaks in or out. Maybe you can clarify how you determined that air was getting into your system?

The taste that I describe as "oxidized" is a change (mostly a reduction) in the hop aroma and flavor. It goes from a fresh, citrus flavor to somewhat one-dimensional, metallic and papery flavor. It's very apparent in a side by side comparison with the kegged beer. It also gets worse over time - by one week the beer is virtually undrinkable. For malty beers, it's not as bad, but they do seem to flatten out and lose the fresh malty flavor. It becomes one-dimensional with no finish.

I know that many people swear by the homemade bottle fillers on this site and all around the web, but as I stated, I've tried them with less than stellar results - the beer gun has definitely yielded better results, but not perfect. I entered beers into competitions with the bottling wand/cobra tap method and won a few first place ribbons with that, but they never tasted as good as they did from the keg.

I think one or two times I've had a comment about oxidation but not usually and obviously not always... I just assume that the judge just thinks it's a crappy beer!

I'm not sure how to incorrectly cap on the foam... I either let it foam or agitate the bottle (by tapping on the side with a wrench) until foam pushes out of the top and then I cap on top of that. I'm not sure that the oxidation is occurring during capping... I expect that it's during the filling.

Any other ideas?

 

[jetmac]

Can you post a video of yourself filling your bottles?

 

[Bobby_M]

I know this is going to sound absurd but I don't think this is oxidation but rather a perceivable drop in carbonation. As you know, the more carbonated a beer is, the more hop aroma gets pulled out of the beer and into your nose. The carbonic acid also enhances the bitterness a bit. Here's an experiment:

Try pouring a a sample from the keg and let it sit in the fridge for about 10 minutes. Now pour a sample from a bottled version of that beer and then compare the two. You can also pour a 3rd sample fresh from the keg and if I'm right, that beer will have the most hop aroma of the three.

 

[cladinshadows]

I know this is going to sound absurd but I don't think this is oxidation but rather a perceivable drop in carbonation.

Definitely doesn't sound absurd - I've considered this as well. There is just this other flavor that seems to show up and get worse as time passes. Who knows, I could just be a total head case about it. But, my brother notices it, too, so I'm not sure it's all in my head.

And about the video - I may have to do just that... I really want to get to the bottom of this!

 

[BrewThruYou]

I got some scoresheets back from a comp that really blasted my beer for oxidation. It was my first time using my Beergun. I'm thinking I set the PSI too high and I didn't chill the bottles beforehand. The instructions said half of serving pressure...I was using about 5 PSI.

Next time, I'm going to chill the bottles and use 2-3 PSI for filling. I purged bottles for 2 seconds before fill and then purged headspace after bottling. I used o2 scavenging caps too.

I did notice some bubbles in the tubing near where it enters the beergun, but I thought it was just co2 bubbles...I now think that I was pushing the beer too fast. It's a shame...the beer tastes awesome in the keg, but the ones I bottled must've been severely oxidized.