Overload of Info! Questions on wiring...

[benbradford]

I have been reading for days on understanding the befefits of pid's vs manual vs bcs vs brewtroller...

Have finally settled on a slow bcs controller build.

I have an immediate need of wiring the brewery with 240 though.

My slow intro is to buy the controller box and install manual control into it for now, and add the bcs460 later.

Here is the plan:

If anyone can confirm each step, I would appreciate it...

1) 50amp breaker into main panel...Thanks P-J!
2) 6/3 copper wire to spa panel... Thanks Airplanedoc!
3) 50amp spa panel wired with outlet plugs....Thanks P-J!
4) Plug and Outlet to control panel box(16x16x8)...Thanks P-J!

Okay, now I have 240 to control panel and I want to split it to run
2 5500w elements
3 pumps
4 2500w 120v elements

5) Can i put in a din rail and add 4 15v 120 breakers and 2 25v 240 breakers(1 for each element and pumps piggy backing of the 15v elements)?

6) I will be wiring 2 40a ssrs to 2 contactors to control 5500w elements...Thanks P-J!
7) I will also control 2 5500w elements with a 3 way center off switch(later the switch can be turned to auto)?
9) For now the pumps and 120v elements will be controlled with light switches, and will be upgraded to 3 way switches and ssr's later.


After that I will be following the general schematic found in the pic...

Sorry for all of the questions... as they are answered, I will edit.

Thanks!!!
Ben

 

[Airplanedoc]

I think you mean 6/3 "with Ground" not 6/2 you have to at least have leg 1, Leg 2, Neutral, and a ground to the spa panel.

 

[hatrickwah]

I have been reading for days on understanding the befefits of pid's vs manual vs bcs vs brewtroller...

Have finally settled on a slow bcs controller build.

I have an immediate need of wiring the brewery with 240 though.

My slow intro is to buy the controller box and install manual control into it for now, and add the bcs460 later.

Here is the plan:

If anyone can confirm each step, I would appreciate it...

1) 50amp breaker into main panel?
2) 6/3 copper wire to spa panel... Thanks Airplanedoc!
3) 50amp spa panel wired direct?
4) direct wired to control panel box(16x16x8)?

Okay, now I have 240 to control panel and I want to split it to run
2 5500w elements
3 pumps
4 2500w 120v elements

5) Can i put in a din rail and add 7 15v 120 breakers and 2 25v 240 breakers?

6) I will be wiring 2 25a ssrs to 2 contactors to control elements?
7) I will also control all 9 items with a 3 way center off switch(later the switch can be turned to auto)?

After that I will be following the general schematic found in the pic...

Sorry for all of the questions... as they are answered, I will edit.

Thanks!!!
Ben

Ben,
Looks like quite the project. Why so many elements?

Running the breakers wouldn't be a big deal. I warn, controlling all of that will require more than just the 2 ssrs though. I have 4 in my panel controlling 2 elements and 2 pumps. You also could keep your breakers count down by running each element on their own, and the pumps share another. I highly recommend the 3 way switch on everything. I went with 2 way for my elements originally and have since changed to 3 way.

Good luck on the build, looking forward to watching as you build.

 

[P-J]

Ben,

Wish you would have ID'd the wiring plan or reposted the linked image from my web site. Yours is way too small for me to pull my ID info from it.

Anyway, I'm very curious about the "4 2500w 120v elements" - What is the intent with them?
Another thing is that I strongly suggest that you use 40A SSRs for your 5500W elements. You are really pushing it with 25A SSRs driving 5500W elements. IMHO they will fail.

Then:
1) 50amp breaker into main panel? - Yes.
3) 50amp spa panel wired direct? - I would not do that. I suggest wiring to a 50A outlet and then fit the Spa Panel with a plug. I would also suggest that you mount an outlet within the Spa Panel so that your controller can plug into it.

I hope all goes well for you.

P-J

 

[benbradford]

Thanks for the responses... Hoping to get p-J to chime in too, so that's great!

I edited the original questions with the answers for now...

The reason for the elements is that i already have the 4 120v elements installed and am upgrading to 240... I thought that I would use them for now, and install the 240 to kind of be my turbo for getting to temps, and later be the primary element when I put a bcs on the system. The 120 elements would be my way of controlling boil for the temporary without having to spend money on a pwm or pid before bcs.

 

[benbradford]

would this meter box work for a spa panel?

http://denver.craigslist.org/mat/2990788692.html

 

[evandena]

would this meter box work for a spa panel?

http://denver.craigslist.org/mat/2990788692.html

Wow, that post....

 

[benbradford]

ya, even if i did want it... worried about that guy for sure can anyone say militia?

 

[Mb2658]

That guy is probably a regular caller on Coast to Coast AM with George Noory.

 

[benbradford]

In summation, here is what I am planning. Insert 50a breaker into breaker box. Wire 25ft of 6/3 wire to brewery. At end of wire attach plug. Plug into spa panel with 50a gfci breaker. Install outlet to spa panel. Male plug on wire that leads to control box. Install 2 15a(decided that I can replace 2 120v elements with 240v and still have turbo heat and boil control) and 2 25a breakers into control box. Wire the 5500w elements as indicated by p-j's schematic minus the bcs for now. I currently have a box with 4 light switches which will be wired from the control box breakers that will control the pumps and 120v elements. As money allows, I can upgrade box with indicator lights, bcs, more switches and ssr's for the other pumps and elements.

Will the 50amp be enough to allow 2 240 and 2 120 elements and 2 pumps all at the same time?

 

[P-J]

In summation, here is what I am planning. Insert 50a breaker into breaker box. Wire 25ft of 6/3 wire to brewery. At end of wire attach plug. Plug into spa panel with 50a gfci breaker. Install outlet to spa panel. Male plug on wire that leads to control box. Install 2 15a(decided that I can replace 2 120v elements with 240v and still have turbo heat and boil control) and 2 25a breakers into control box. Wire the 5500w elements as indicated by p-j's schematic minus the bcs for now. I currently have a box with 4 light switches which will be wired from the control box breakers that will control the pumps and 120v elements. As money allows, I can upgrade box with indicator lights, bcs, more switches and ssr's for the other pumps and elements.

Will the 50amp be enough to allow 2 240 and 2 120 elements and 2 pumps all at the same time?

Your 50A 240V feed could power a set of "appropriate elements" all together.

The 5500W-240V and 2500W-120V elements are out of the question. The total current draw is way over your 50A source.

Consider 4500W-240V elements and 2000W 120V elements. With that and the correct wiring plan your total current draw would be about 46A on 240V. Plus the pumps with more than enough room for them...

With that setup, the 2-2000W 120V elements must be set up to be powered 1 each from the 2 240V phases.

Just saying.

P-J

 

[kgalle]

Wow, that post....

Ferreal... Kaczynski's Used Electrical Gear dot com

 

[benbradford]

Got a bunch of breakers for free today, and have a question.

Can I wire a 50A gfci breaker in box to my control panel and then send that to another 50A breaker instead of 2 25A breakers? I have either 2 20A breakers or 1 50A breakers to choose from...