Old-time Brewery Recipes?

[Pancoastbrewing]

I'm a homebrew nut (obviously) and also a bit of a history nerd. I've gotten pretty interested in the local brewery history of my town, which had quite a few breweries in the early 20th century. One thing I've never been able to find is recipe info from any of these breweries. No historical record seems to exist, at least not online. I would be interested in seeing them, if not for historical context, but to maybe try to brew a clone myself. Since the breweries have/had to register their recipes, what are the odds they are attainable through some government agency? Since these breweries have been closed for well over 50 years, I can't imagine there would be a problem attaining them, if they even exist. What do you all think? Thanks!

 

[BigEd]

Since the breweries have/had to register their recipes,

Unfortunately I seriously doubt that's true. Recipes, especially those from older breweries, are pretty hard to find and/or validate. Piecing together old memories, word of mouth, and whatever information is still available is about all you can do. I wish it were otherwise since an old goat like myself would love to have some of those old time recipes.

 

[Pancoastbrewing]

Unfortunately I seriously doubt that's true. Recipes, especially those from older breweries, are pretty hard to find and/or validate. Piecing together old memories, word of mouth, and whatever information is still available is about all you can do. I wish it were otherwise since an old goat like myself would love to have some of those old time recipes.

Hmm, I certainly did a bit of assuming there...I just figured that the brewers would have had to provide their recipe details considering the restrictions on ABV and even some ingredient restrictions during wartime. I thought I had heard that somewhere. Maybe I just completely imagined it!

 

[kh54s10]

Hmm, I certainly did a bit of assuming there...I just figured that the brewers would have had to provide their recipe details considering the restrictions on ABV and even some ingredient restrictions during wartime. I thought I had heard that somewhere. Maybe I just completely imagined it!

This is more likely a modern regulation. I think I recall a thread where someone was starting a micro brewery and had to file the recipes. It might also be different state by state.

I doubt that you can get the recipe for Budweiser in any public or government records that you could get access to. It would probably be more secret than KFCs 11 herbs and spices.

 

[Pancoastbrewing]

This is more likely a modern regulation. I think I recall a thread where someone was starting a micro brewery and had to file the recipes. It might also be different state by state.

I doubt that you can get the recipe for Budweiser in any public or government records that you could get access to. It would probably be more secret than KFCs 11 herbs and spices.

Absolutely, I wouldn't think the recipes or forumulations for modern products would be available. But I figured there would be a loss of rights to something that was made 100 years ago, especially when the owners of the recipe went under 60 or so years ago.

 

[kh54s10]

Absolutely, I wouldn't think the recipes or forumulations for modern products would be available. But I figured there would be a loss of rights to something that was made 100 years ago, especially when the owners of the recipe went under 60 or so years ago.

I just figure that the requirement to report your recipes somewhere would be a modern regulation.

Older, you would have to find it in the companies private records. I am sure they guarded the recipes so their competitors didn't know what they were.

 

[tiredofbuyingbeer]

My guess is that the brewery either archived their records, sold them to whoever bought them out (if that happened), or destroyed them. If they were archived, you can check around places that might keep archived business records: nearby universities or libraries would be my guess. If you can't find the business's archives, find out whoever founded the brewery or owned it in its hey-day. If they were a local person of importance, then their personal papers might be archived, and that might include business documents from their business. If the business was part of a trade organization, you could contact that group if they're still around. And you could always try to find a historian that does research on labor or business history in the relevant industry or geographic region. Most academics will respond if you email them about doing research in an area that pertains to their own work.

You might check out Ron Pattinson's blog if you don't already know about it. His methodology for beer blogging is to actually read brewers' archived records. (Strange notion.) He might respond if you emailed him and asked him where a local brewery in the US might have kept its archives.

If you're really intent and aren't worried about possibly going on a wild goose chase, find trade publications from the period that aimed to document practices in that industry. You could probably find these doing a Google Books search and then have them mailed to your local research library for you to look at. In the 19th and early 20th centuries, people published books on, e.g., how lagers were brewed in different parts of America, or what beer consumption was like in different regions or cities. I know Pattinson gets some of his sources for US breweries from these sorts of publications.

 

[Pancoastbrewing]

Great info, thanks. I've done loads of research on one particular local brewery just by reading old newspaper websites like newspapers.com. Simply amazing how these old breweries were able to pump out 200,000 bbls a year before so much automation and easy transport. I do wonder how they would have tasted compared to modem brews. Probably not so great if they pumped out 3.2% lagers!

 

[daveMN]

Great info, thanks. I've done loads of research on one particular local brewery just by reading old newspaper websites like newspapers.com. Simply amazing how these old breweries were able to pump out 200,000 bbls a year before so much automation and easy transport. I do wonder how they would have tasted compared to modem brews. Probably not so great if they pumped out 3.2% lagers!

What's the name of the brewery? Maybe someone here has some info on it.

 

[ryanmbeal]

I learned that the Montana Historical Society had records from the Virginia City Brewery from around the 1860s and thought it would be interesting to try and recreate the beers. There were records of inventory/purchases from which I was able to gather that they used "malt" and "hops". Most of the record keeping was clearly for accounting and tax purposes I kinda wonder if they even had a written down recipe.

 

[BentBrewer]

You can also go to one of the online libraries, like Project Gutenberg or Open Library and easily download books that are out of copyright.
You might look at The London And Country Brewer, or The Art of Brewing.
And as TiredOfBuying mentioned, Ron Pattinson has done a great job of interpreting older formulas for us modern brewers.

 

[Pancoastbrewing]

What's the name of the brewery? Maybe someone here has some info on it.

It's the standard Brewing co in Scranton, Pa. I actually have loads of info on it, even down to the brewmaster's name. Closed in 1954. Lots of cool prohibition bootlegging stories for that brewery too. I figured a recipe would be a total long shot and probably involved corn and watering down the beer to meet strict abv guidelines, neither of which I really am interested in.

 

[Pancoastbrewing]

I learned that the Montana Historical Society had records from the Virginia City Brewery from around the 1860s and thought it would be interesting to try and recreate the beers. There were records of inventory/purchases from which I was able to gather that they used "malt" and "hops". Most of the record keeping was clearly for accounting and tax purposes I kinda wonder if they even had a written down recipe.

Oh, I would bet they absolutely wrote the recipes down. I wouldn't doubt that some of the writings were bogus during prohibition times since the breweries were only allowed to legally produce near beer (0.5%) which involved the de-alcoholization after fermentation was complete (if they "remembered" to do it, that is). I was actually surprised to see how advanced these breweries were for the time. Many had on site labs for product testing.

 

[kal]

It's the standard Brewing co in Scranton, Pa.

What sort of beers did they brew? What you wanting to replicate?

Keep in mind too that ingredients have changed a lot over time so brewing historical beers is often problematic. Back then they may have used a form of less modified malt requiring a more complex step mash (not single infusion) and had access to hops that aren't quite as potent as today.

Even if you had access to the same brewing setup (the recipe is only part of the story, process is equally important) it's unlikely that you'd be able to clone it exactly, though I'm not sure that's your intent...

Either way, interesting experiment - Good luck!

Kal

 

[jleiii]

I'm not able to name any specific sources (bad memory....), but I've seen quite a bit of talk about resurrecting pre-prohibition beers over the last few years. Even the BJCP style guidelines have added a new category for Historical Beers.

I was involved with an event 2 years ago, The Beer Barons at West Laurel Hill Cemetery in Bala Cynwyd PA, where 6 Philly Beer Barons are buried. We brewed 6 different pre-prohibition beers, each modeled after recipe from the respective Beer Baron.

I do know that most recipes were made to most closely match what was brewed originally, but I'm not sure any were based on fact. Mine was a 6-row and corn lager. Since then I've seen the interest grow in bringing back these older styles. Sorry I can't site any specifics, but if you are interested I can look into the research we did.

Searching for pre-prohibition beer/ale/lager might get some good results.

 

[user 224599]

My interest was sparked by a long conversation with a co-worker (who also turned me on to this site) about pre- and mid-prohibition beers of the upper midwest, notably the Chicago area.
I just googled this up...
Does anyone here rate researcher credentials, to be able to pick thru and scan the contents of the Smithsonian collection AC0060? http://amhistory.si.edu/archives/AC0060_beer.pdf

Scope and content Note: Beer, 1744-1960, 5 Boxes

This material consists primarily of labels, recipes, advertising cards, bills/receipts, announcements, circulars, notices, coasters, lithographs, printed advertisements, patents, trademarks, books, shipping documents and catalogues from brewers of beer. Some of these companies, such as Pabst, also made malt health tonics and food products.

Box one contains shipping documents. The materials in box two and three are organized by name of company, and by type in boxes four and five.

 

[Pancoastbrewing]

What sort of beers did they brew? What you wanting to replicate?

Keep in mind too that ingredients have changed a lot over time so brewing historical beers is often problematic. Back then they may have used a form of less modified malt requiring a more complex step mash (not single infusion) and had access to hops that aren't quite as potent as today.

Even if you had access to the same brewing setup (the recipe is only part of the story, process is equally important) it's unlikely that you'd be able to clone it exactly, though I'm not sure that's your intent...

Either way, interesting experiment - Good luck!

Kal

Their flagship brew was a 9 months long aged lager called TruAge. They had an extensive (for a small regional brewery) stock house. I think it was. 200,000 bbl stockhouse. They also brewed a porter and seasonal beers like an Easter bock and "Christmas beer", which was probably a pretty dark bock or dunkel type thing.

Yeah, I figured the ingredients would probably be difficult to match up to today's ingredients. I do remember seeing a recipe from kaier's brewery which was another PA operation. Haven't been able to find it again online. I'll have to look into the prohibition bjcp category.

 

[Pancoastbrewing]

I'm not able to name any specific sources (bad memory....), but I've seen quite a bit of talk about resurrecting pre-prohibition beers over the last few years. Even the BJCP style guidelines have added a new category for Historical Beers.

I was involved with an event 2 years ago, The Beer Barons at West Laurel Hill Cemetery in Bala Cynwyd PA, where 6 Philly Beer Barons are buried. We brewed 6 different pre-prohibition beers, each modeled after recipe from the respective Beer Baron.

I do know that most recipes were made to most closely match what was brewed originally, but I'm not sure any were based on fact. Mine was a 6-row and corn lager. Since then I've seen the interest grow in bringing back these older styles. Sorry I can't site any specifics, but if you are interested I can look into the research we did.

Searching for pre-prohibition beer/ale/lager might get some good results.

That's a pretty cool event. Amazing that so little information exists. There had to be tons of log books from brewmasters of the time.

 

[jleiii]

That's a pretty cool event. Amazing that so little information exists. There had to be tons of log books from brewmasters of the time.

Yes, it was a really cool event. The cemetery has been doing beer related events for a number of years, but they went a different direction last year. I'm hopeful they will do something like this again.
There were probably lots of logs, but in most cases nothing was saved when the breweries closed. Prohibition was a death sentence for most breweries and it seems no-one had the forethought/interest to save the records.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

This is more likely a modern regulation. I think I recall a thread where someone was starting a micro brewery and had to file the recipes. It might also be different state by state.

I doubt that you can get the recipe for Budweiser in any public or government records that you could get access to. It would probably be more secret than KFCs 11 herbs and spices.

Budweiser= A little barley, a bit of hops, a hell of a lot of water, and a good dose of headache yeast.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

If the brewery owners were local the records might be with the remaining family members.

 

[Pancoastbrewing]

If the brewery owners were local the records might be with the remaining family members.

They were but they would probably be pretty well guarded.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

You never know until you try. They may have no wish nor means to start brewing but still be proud of their past. They may be open to sharing especially if you are doing historical brewing research.