OK to bottle in a 64oz flip top growler?

[fendersrule]

Assuming the answer is "yes" because it's the same thing as a flip top bottle, just bigger!

Thought I'd double check. Looks like the attached picture.

 

[Jag75]

I dont see why not . I've bottled in swing top bottles with no issues. I like that growler !

 

[Soulshine2]

I "bottled" in a 32 oz stainless steel growler once. The bottom swelled from the pressure, so be careful with that glass.

 

[doogie]

I have done it with no issues. Measure out the priming sugar carefully and keep it cool and you should be fine.

 

[LittleRiver]

It all depends on the growler. Is it made to handle the pressure? Here's some links to more info:

Article about growler safety

Forum discussion about exploding growlers

HBT discussion about exploding growlers

 

[passedpawn]

I would not do it. The larger the container, the more force you'll have after it carbonates. I'm guessing that that growler has about 4x the internal surface area of a normal bottle, so you'll have 4x the force on its walls.

 

[Jag75]

I would not do it. The larger the container, the more force you'll have after it carbonates. I'm guessing that that growler has about 4x the internal surface area of a normal bottle, so you'll have 4x the force on its walls.

I never even thought about that. It makes sense .

 

[fendersrule]

Yea. Of course after I posted this I've done quite a plethora of research.

Basically, err on the side of caution for growlers. I'm going to not go forward with this idea.

 

[Jag75]

I

Yea. Of course after I posted this I've done quite a plethora of research.

Basically, err on the side of caution for growlers. I'm going to not go forward with this idea.

I think it's the right decision. Better safe then sorry .

 

[balrog]

@passedpawn is right
Also affects whether the top will seal
Same pressure on larger diameter lid/gasket is MUCH harder to keep pressure in than on regular bottle cap sized lid and gasket with "traditional" sized flip tops (16oz 32oz, Grolsch bottles, etc; anything that is still beer bottle cap diameter)

 

[catdaddy66]

I bottled once in my growler of the same size and it did ok, but once I read of the chance of explosion I opened it up and I'm glad I did! The pressure had built up enough that I had difficulty removing the cap. Any longer (it was about two weeks in the growler) and it could have been disastrous.

I wouldn't do it again, personally.

 

[Boden]

I would not do it. The larger the container, the more force you'll have after it carbonates. I'm guessing that that growler has about 4x the internal surface area of a normal bottle, so you'll have 4x the force on its walls.

Not quite
If the head pressure is four times higher distributed over four times the area you have the same pressure distribution as 1/4 the pressure over 1/4 the area.

Real problem would be the thickness if the glass. Small bottle has proportionally thicker glass and a smaller radius giving it more strength.

Edit: unless you’re talking about a champagne bottle or the like with thicker glass.

Think of a 1/2” OD steel pipe with 1/8” walls. Hard to deform. Take a 4” OD pipe with 1/8” walls. Easy to deform.

 

[Maverick986]

When I first started brewing I talked with a guy at my local brew shop and he advised against bottling in growlers. As he put it something along the lines, that some people have bottled in growlers and had luck, more have not, is it worth the risk of loosing the beer? Or having to do the paint/drywall repairs?

 

[passedpawn]

Not quite
If the head pressure is four times higher distributed over four times the area you have the same pressure distribution as 1/4 the pressure over 1/4 the area.

Real problem would be the thickness if the glass. Small bottle has proportionally thicker glass and a smaller radius giving it more strength.

Edit: unless you’re talking about a champagne bottle or the like with thicker glass.

Think of a 1/2” OD steel pipe with 1/8” walls. Hard to deform. Take a 4” OD pipe with 1/8” walls. Easy to deform.

Note that pressure and force are different things. Pressure, which in our brewing world is PSI (pounds-f per square inch), doesn't tell you the force against the walls of the bottle. You need to multiply by the area to get that force. It's the fundamental reason hydraulics works.

Same pressure throughout the growler, but different force. F = P*A (force = pressure*area). So the force increases linearly with surface area.

Look at one of those little donut tires in some auto's trunks. They are filled with 60-80psi. Why so much more than the standard 35psi? Much smaller surface area than normal tire, need more pressure to get the same force to keep the car off the ground.

 

[Jag75]

One thing I've come to realize since joining this site is , its evident I didnt pay attention in any of my science classes lol

 

[Boden]

Note that pressure and force are different things. Pressure, which in our brewing world is PSI (pounds-f per square inch), doesn't tell you the force against the walls of the bottle. You need to multiply by the area to get that force. It's the fundamental reason hydraulics works.

Same pressure throughout, but different force. F = P*A (force = pressure*area). So the force increases linearly with surface area.

Look at one of those little donut tires in some auto's trunks. They are filled with 60-80psi. Why so much more than the standard 35psi? Much smaller surface area than normal tire, need more pressure to get the same force to keep the car off the ground.

Quite correct

 

[Soulshine2]

h

I would not do it. The larger the container, the more force you'll have after it carbonates. I'm guessing that that growler has about 4x the internal surface area of a normal bottle, so you'll have 4x the force on its walls.

How so ?...
If he adds the right proportion of sugar it should carbonate the same as a smaller volume with the correct proportion of sugar.
Youre saying lets say a 12 oz bottle if sugar primed individually will have less carbonation than a 40 oz individually primed at the same proportion.

example- if you have 2 air compressors , one is a 5 gallon, other is a 300 gallon , both are holding 90 psi...although one has more volume than the other they still have the same pressure.

OPs biggest concern is whether or not the glass growler will handle the pressure. Normally growlers are filled only with finished beer which has finished carbonation and will slowly lose carbonation until the beer is gone. They are not to be used for carbonating .
which is the reason some people use champagne bottles because they hold higher pressures than say a standard wine bottle.

 

[passedpawn]

h

How so ?...
If he adds the right proportion of sugar it should carbonate the same as a smaller volume with the correct proportion of sugar.
Youre saying lets say a 12 oz bottle if sugar primed individually will have less carbonation than a 40 oz individually primed at the same proportion.

example- if you have 2 air compressors , one is a 5 gallon, other is a 300 gallon , both are holding 90 psi...although one has more volume than the other they still have the same pressure.

OPs biggest concern is whether or not the glass growler will handle the pressure. Normally growlers are filled only with finished beer which has finished carbonation and will slowly lose carbonation until the beer is gone. They are not to be used for carbonating .
which is the reason some people use champagne bottles because they hold higher pressures than say a standard wine bottle.

I agree with all, that the growler would (if carbed right) have the same pressure as in the bottle. But the point that many are missing here is that the same pressure, in a larger bottle, results in a greater force on the bottle. I'm going to stop repeating myself in this thread because it's clear that the physics of pressure and force are foreign to some and I'm becoming a bore trying to explain it.

I stand by my statements in this thread, and I would not recommend pressurizing a growler to 12psi. Some might be designed for the resulting force, but most probably are not.

 

[Boden]

I think we all agree that the larger the bottle the more total force you have at the same pressure.

I’m intrigued to figure out if the volume and surface area of headspace is a significant factor in bottle booms given everything else stays constant.

Can you have higher pressure in the headspace than in the liquid solution itself once the solution hits saturation.

At what pressure do the yeast say “Nope, I’m out”



Granted this is more a discussion for a physics forum than a home brew forum.

Just something to research with tea and biscuits this morning.

 

[passedpawn]

I think we all agree that the larger the bottle the more total force you have at the same pressure.

I’m intrigued to figure out if the volume and surface area of headspace is a significant factor in bottle booms given everything else stays constant.

Can you have higher pressure in the headspace than in the liquid solution itself once the solution hits saturation.

At what pressure do the yeast say “Nope, I’m out”



Granted this is more a discussion for a physics forum than a home brew forum.

Just something to research with tea and biscuits this morning.

Pascal's Law explains that the pressure will be the same throughout the container.

I don't think the headspace can be higher pressure do the aforementioned law. But there are time-variant dynamics in play during carbonation, in which much of the CO2 from carbonation exists in the headspace during the first week or two. CO2 bubbles up to the top due to density, then stays in the headspace because gases are compressible. Eventually, the gasses diffuse into the liquid at a rate per Graham's Law. So if you open a bottle early, it might seem to be carbonated when you hear the hisss, but the beer won't have gas.

 

[MaxStout]

If it's not specifically designed for pressure, don't use it. Maybe it would hold up. But if it doesn't the stakes are too high. We don't want to see posted pics of your stitched wounds here. We see enough of those in the broken carboy thread.

 

[m1k3]

I bottled in swing top pirate looking growlers before I switched to kegs. If the pressure got too high they would puke a little. But one cracked in half.

 

[Aristoi]

I have had good luck carbonating in 1 or 2 liter PET soda or seltzer water bottles. They are designed for much higher pressure and never had an issue. Plus i can squeeze out all of the air to get liquid to the top, cap on liquid, and it swells back to normal with headspace once carbonated. I dont do small batches this is typically the extra 0.25 or 0.5 gallons of beer in my 5 gallon batches I don't want to toss.