Ok so, I have brewing for about 2 years now....and to be honest I am about to be done. I continually get a specific off flavor in all my beers, I have tried everything under the sun, and am still getting it. The flavor in question, I can best describe as the flavor, of the smell of the initial yeast blow up during primary fermentation. It over powers all other flavors in the beer. I have tried different fermentation temps and techniques, I have went to a brite tank filtration to try to get rid of all yeast particulates, I use irish moss, I force carbonated instead of reactivation of the yeast, I have used several different types of yeast.....I am out of ideas, and have tried about every tip anyone has ever given me. I will say sometimes its worse than other times, the filtration does seem to help a bit with this flavor issue. I just put a vanilla bean blonde ale in the keg this week, was super excited for it, (especially after my last batch, it seemed to be a very low off flavor batch) I poured the first glass today, and what do you know.....there is the off flavor. I do not taste this flavor in most craft brews from local breweries, however I have tasted it before in beers served in bars/tap rooms. So I know that there is a method of getting rid of this flavor. I am out of ideas, and figured I would ask on here before I give up the hobby. If anyone has experienced this and has figured out a way to get rid of it, I would greatly appreciate any tips. Also, I am very anal about sanitizing everything, so I would find it hard to believe I have any infections or issues there.
Off flavors...someone please HELP
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brewbama
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Have you taken apart your kettle valve? How do you cool your wort? What is the source of your water? Have you taken apart your taps? ...Cleaned your tap lines? What kind of fermenter do you use? Sorry for the twenty questions. Just tryin to give you ideas.
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For folks that have tried "everything" and retain the stubborn off flavors, (presumably brew methods and cleanliness are not an issue) you need to examine your water and Ph.
Sorry for the delay everyone! I appreciate the help. So the water I use is well water taken straight from the ground. I have had the county print off a water report for my area. I used a excel sheet online where you plug in the amounts of minerals and other things in the water. Everything came back great for the water I use. Not to mention, we have a local brewery here in a town of about 2,200ppl. I have asked their methods, they do the same thing, take it straight from the ground with no additions or subtractions. I do not add any tablets for chlorine as again the levels in my water appear to fall into the acceptable categories. For the record, I have in the past tried using distilled water and adding the minerals that I need back to exact amounts...still have this off flavor. I usually use Yweast liquid. The off flavor is still in the bottle, or keg depending on what I do that time. I have not taken apart my kettle....I do clean the valve. Wouldnt infection be almost impossible on the kettle? I mean you boil for almost an hour at temperatures higher than are used in a medical sterilizer. BUUUUUT I can try that. I have been using Big mouth bubbler fermenters. Which....I was told by a friend who brews that plastic fermenters are only good for a few brews and then need to be changed out. Something about micro scratches that are impossible to avoid that will carry trace amounts of yeast or other microbes. Can anyone confirm this? I would use glass carboys but they are a pain to clean with the small opening. My friend says I need to switch to stainless steel and to take apart and soak all components in sanitizer. In his opinion that will rid my beer of this off flavor. IDK before I drop some cash on new equipment I would love to know if this in fact will solve my problem.
To the guy asking about what the flavor is. I do not think it is that of a band aid. I can only best describe it as If the smell of the initial yeast blow up in primary, had a flavor this would be it. Its a very pungent smell and flavor.
I use StarSan, I was told by my local brewery that they have switched from Star San to a different type. IDK if that would make a difference?
To the guy asking about what the flavor is. I do not think it is that of a band aid. I can only best describe it as If the smell of the initial yeast blow up in primary, had a flavor this would be it. Its a very pungent smell and flavor.
I use StarSan, I was told by my local brewery that they have switched from Star San to a different type. IDK if that would make a difference?
cloudybrewer
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Send a sample of your well water to Ward labs, and know for sure what is in your water. If most in your area are on wells, it's possible that they differ. They could be different depths, pulling from different water sources. Forcing yourself to drink or dump batch after batch is expensive and mentally exhausting. For $40, I'd test your water before I'd spend hundreds switching to all stainless equipment.
brewbama
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Agreed. ...or simply buy .89 per gallon distilled water at the grocery (or distill it yourself) for one batch and see if that improves your beer. Of course, you’ll have to add minerals but you will know exactly what’s in your water.
The guy that said you need to switch out plastic fermenters after a few batches is either very rich or misinformed. What you have to do is be careful cleaning, meaning no abrasives. No brush, no scouring pads etc. Soak, rinse, wipe out with a soft cloth, rinse. I have been using my Better Bottles for 7 years, haven't retired any and have had no issues.
Stainless steel is great, expensive and not likely to make a change in this case.
It may be that you are extra sensitive to yeast. If so, I don't know an answer. Maybe extreme filtering to get most of the yeast out of the beer.
Track down your water chemistry. That seems to be the likely area to look.
Stainless steel is great, expensive and not likely to make a change in this case.
It may be that you are extra sensitive to yeast. If so, I don't know an answer. Maybe extreme filtering to get most of the yeast out of the beer.
Track down your water chemistry. That seems to be the likely area to look.
flars
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Which yeast seems to have more of the off flavor? What was the final gravity of the beer using this yeast? Have you experimented with leaving your beer in the primary a couple of weeks longer than the typical time for your brews?
He said he tried that with no success.
ESBrewer
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How about diacetyl, it could come from both infections (lacto from skin/mouth/surfaces/equipment/unboiled malts) or certain yeast strains and can be overwhelming. But it's not really a yeasty flavor, buttery, butterscotch. It would also make the beer feel slick & oily. Some infection could reside in the cold side plastics (plastic fermenter, valves, tubes) that can't be heated up. Those may need to be changed completely, not just sanitized cause sanitizers are not 100% killers and they may not penetrate the possible grooves and holes in plastics.
DMS could be another thing, corn flavor and smell. Could come from boiling some worts lid on or leaving them standing hot too long post-boil.
Have you ever noticed when exactly the flavor appears, already pre-fermentation, during fermentation or in the keg/bottle. Is the final product clear and transparent (at room temp) or does it look yeasty?
DMS could be another thing, corn flavor and smell. Could come from boiling some worts lid on or leaving them standing hot too long post-boil.
Have you ever noticed when exactly the flavor appears, already pre-fermentation, during fermentation or in the keg/bottle. Is the final product clear and transparent (at room temp) or does it look yeasty?
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To OP:
Out of curiosity are you AG or Extract? I ask, only because I have only been brewing for 6 months, in which most have been extract. I have about 4 AG (BIAB) under my belt. I have noticed a big difference in my beer, in which I’m still trying to figure out the cause. With my small amount of knowledge, extract seems to be more forgiving.
You have said you have used different styles of yeast, have they all been wyeast? Have you tried other brands of yeast?
How does the beer taste at botteling/kegging?
Out of curiosity are you AG or Extract? I ask, only because I have only been brewing for 6 months, in which most have been extract. I have about 4 AG (BIAB) under my belt. I have noticed a big difference in my beer, in which I’m still trying to figure out the cause. With my small amount of knowledge, extract seems to be more forgiving.
You have said you have used different styles of yeast, have they all been wyeast? Have you tried other brands of yeast?
How does the beer taste at botteling/kegging?
Most if not all have be Wyeast.
Have been AG for a while now.
I do not think its Diacetyl .
I have extended primary ferment times to see if it makes a difference. I have not noticed one.
I use a wort chiller to get it down to temp quickly.
I use yeast nutrients.
Fermenting method (after already been trying to get rid of this flavor): Primary with yeast pitch at 62 degrees. Hold till initial yeast blow up. Up temperature by 1 degree a day until hitting 70-72 degrees. Hold at this temp for 1 week to 10days. Transfer to secondary, cold crash to 35degrees, hold for 10days to 2 weeks. Transfer to keg. Run through 5micron brite filter 3 times, and then through a 1 micron 3 times. Pressurize and carbonate. I also used to bottle with added corn sugar for carbonation, and still had off flavors.
I have had batches turn out better than others. However, I do not recall if those were with or without the use of distilled water. I never did use all distilled water, just a mix. I may need to try this. I have changed the pH of the water to accommodate a proper mash pH. However, I added this step earlier to try to get rid of this off flavor with no success. I will send in a water sample to see whats up. I just have a hard time thinking that I am using the same water as our local brewery and getting such different results.
Question on my fermenters....They are about 2years old. Plastic big mouth bubblers. While I have never used a scouring pad, I cant for sure say ive never used a brush on them....I may have. Lately I have been soaking, wiping the inside with a wash cloth, and turning upside down to empty and dry. I have been using PBW, then soaking for about an hr with StarSan and again upside down to dry. DO these need replaced either way?
Have been AG for a while now.
I do not think its Diacetyl .
I have extended primary ferment times to see if it makes a difference. I have not noticed one.
I use a wort chiller to get it down to temp quickly.
I use yeast nutrients.
Fermenting method (after already been trying to get rid of this flavor): Primary with yeast pitch at 62 degrees. Hold till initial yeast blow up. Up temperature by 1 degree a day until hitting 70-72 degrees. Hold at this temp for 1 week to 10days. Transfer to secondary, cold crash to 35degrees, hold for 10days to 2 weeks. Transfer to keg. Run through 5micron brite filter 3 times, and then through a 1 micron 3 times. Pressurize and carbonate. I also used to bottle with added corn sugar for carbonation, and still had off flavors.
I have had batches turn out better than others. However, I do not recall if those were with or without the use of distilled water. I never did use all distilled water, just a mix. I may need to try this. I have changed the pH of the water to accommodate a proper mash pH. However, I added this step earlier to try to get rid of this off flavor with no success. I will send in a water sample to see whats up. I just have a hard time thinking that I am using the same water as our local brewery and getting such different results.
Question on my fermenters....They are about 2years old. Plastic big mouth bubblers. While I have never used a scouring pad, I cant for sure say ive never used a brush on them....I may have. Lately I have been soaking, wiping the inside with a wash cloth, and turning upside down to empty and dry. I have been using PBW, then soaking for about an hr with StarSan and again upside down to dry. DO these need replaced either way?
flars
Well-Known Member
You have said this is well water. The county has provided a water report and the level of chlorine seems to be an acceptable low level. This is water supplied by the municipality from their well? I would begin using RO or distilled water if this is municipal supplied water. No chlorine in brewing water is acceptable. Off flavors from chlorine (or chloramine if present) will be slightly different in different styles but will still be there.
Change your yeast selection and try again. If its still there then post recipe and technique. Walk us through a basic brew including sanitation and prep. Maybe someone can recognize a step that you could improve.
That was going to be my suggestion.
