Oak Chips - Conflicting Advice

[FatDragon]

I've got some oak chips coming in the mail from Shangai (and China's) only foreign-run brewshop that I know of. The owner's an accomplished and award-winning brewer who knows his stuff, I'm told he's even turned down requests from SN's Beer Camp to be a guest instructor for a session or two. Whether or not that's true, he knows his stuff.

So upon ordering a package of oak chips from him (afraid I don't know the toast level or origin - you take what you can get brewing in China sometimes) and telling him I wanted to oak a five-gallon RIS (~10.5%), he told me he typically uses 100 grams (about 3.5 oz) for three to six months and gets a nice oak flavor.

Mind you, these are chips, not cubes. Reading the forums, I get the impression that most people advise against aging on oak chips for more than a week or two to avoid bad tannins and excessive oak flavor.

I'm planning on bulk aging this brew for a couple months - ambient temps will be low enough that it'll basically be lagering the whole time - then bottling and storing (hopefully at cellar temps or below) for several months, if either of those variables make a difference.

I know there are a lot of threads out there about using oak already, but I've got this vastly-conflicting advice between the forums and my supplier, both of whom I trust, so I could use a bit of guidance here. Thanks in advance for putting a first-time oak user on the right track!

 

[FarmerTed]

I think that's a long time and a lot of chips for a 5 gallon batch-but, I've never used chips before. Since the shop owner has done it before with those chip, I guess I'd follow his advice, but maybe dial back the amount of chips. If it were me, I'd add maybe 25 g of the chips, let it sit a few weeks, and see how it tasted. If you wanted more oak, then go with more.

 

[aryoung1980]

Unfortunately, "good oak flavor" is very subjective. I personally like a lot of oak in some beer styles and appreciate the added mouthfeel from the tannins.

My brewing friend is the complete opposite. He feels that my good oak flavor is too much.

With that said, my advice is too trust your supplier but taste periodically. Once it's at the flavor you enjoy, rack it off of the chips and continue aging if needed.

 

[FatDragon]

Unfortunately, "good oak flavor" is very subjective. I personally like a lot of oak in some beer styles and appreciate the added mouthfeel from the tannins.

My brewing friend is the complete opposite. He feels that my good oak flavor is too much.

With that said, my advice is too trust your supplier but taste periodically. Once it's at the flavor you enjoy, rack it off of the chips and continue aging if needed.

Good points (from both responses so far). You're probably right - sticking with his advice and calling it when I feel it's reached its peak is probably what I'll do. The only real issue is that I don't have a good vessel to rack from the carboy. I've got one carboy, one ale pail, and one bottling bucket, and the ale pail will be in use once this brew hits the carboy. Is there any reason not to bottle once I rack off the oak, or is bulk-aging mainly just a way of saving bottles/kegs while the brew conditions?

 

[harry_the_face]

I aged a couple growlers with 1 oz of toasted oak chips for 3 months and didn't think it had to much oak flavor. I was going for a whisky barrel aged brown ale and it was loved by all that tried it.

 

[aryoung1980]

You can age in the bottle.

 

[acidrain]

I recently brewed a "burbon oaked" vanilla porter (similar to Denny's Porter http://www.brew365.com/beer_dennys_bourbon_vanilla_porter.php).
I brewed normally, cold crashed and transferred to secondary, and for a 6 gal. batch, I used 4 oz. (weighed dry) medium toasted french oak chips [that were soaked in Jim Beam for a week and then drained] added and conditioned in the keg at room temp for 1 month.
After tasting, I'm glad I didn't add more burbon, but actually could have added more chips.
4 oz in 6 gallons was NOT too much. This is a pretty dark beer.

 

[FarmerTed]

I recently brewed a "burbon oaked" vanilla porter (similar to Denny's Porter http://www.brew365.com/beer_dennys_bourbon_vanilla_porter.php).
I brewed normally, cold crashed and transferred to secondary, and for a 6 gal. batch, I used 4 oz. (weighed dry) medium toasted french oak chips [that were soaked in Jim Beam for a week and then drained] added and conditioned in the keg at room temp for 1 month.
After tasting, I'm glad I didn't add more burbon, but actually could have added more chips.
4 oz in 6 gallons was NOT too much. This is a pretty dark beer.

You poured off the bourbon, though? I think that can make a big difference. A lot of the more unpleasant tannins may have been pulled out of the oak before you added it to the beer. Sometimes I play around with adding cubes to single bottles of beer-if there's too much added, the tannins can just ruin the mouth-feel.

 

[Calder]

Chips, I've never used them. I read that the chips give up their flavor in a few weeks, and is fairly one dimensions. Any longer, and you get nothing more. Cubes on the other had take months to get complex flavors; at different depths into the wood you get different flavors.

Can he tell you the origin of the chips. I have used Jack Daniels 'chips' before. They are more like small chunks from actual JD barrels. They do not over-power quickly as they are from used barrels, but with a long steep they give up complex flavors. I fill a pint glass jar with them when I brew a beer, add bourbon to cover (about 8 ozs), and then add the liquor to the bottling bucket about 6 weeks later. I don't add to the full batch, I bottle half the batch before I add the liquor.

So as not to waste the 'chips' I either toss them into another batch (and don't expect much), or add more bourbon, and just keep until I have a chance to use it. Since it is old oak, it is not overly oaked.

 

[acidrain]

You poured off the bourbon, though? I think that can make a big difference. A lot of the more unpleasant tannins may have been pulled out of the oak before you added it to the beer. Sometimes I play around with adding cubes to single bottles of beer-if there's too much added, the tannins can just ruin the mouth-feel.

Great points!
One dimensional perfectly describes the level of oak in this brew.
Next time I'm going to try and get some JD cubes... sounds wonderful.