Not your normal carb thread..

[GreenDragon]

First off I'm not posting because I have no carbonation after 1 week or anything like that. Last Sunday was 4 weeks and 3 days since I bottled. I pulled a sample from the batch and opened it, zero head. I tried another, same result. I decided it was time to do something drastic and I uncapped all 47 of the beers. Of the 47 beers about 6 had head and were "gushers" (I had to run the first gusher to the sink). Those 6 also had some pretty narley floaters in the bottom of the bottles. The rest of the bottles had little to no sediment at the bottom.

I'm guessing my priming solution didn't get mixed properly?? I'm not sure how else I could have mixed it without accidentally adding air. Here is what I did:

I normally use Cooper's Carb drops but this IPA was a kit with priming sugar included so I just used the included priming sugar. I boiled 1 cup of water, added the 3/4 cup of priming sugar to it, and let it boil for another 2 mins just to be safe. After that was complete I cooled the priming sugar water to 80F. I then siphoned about 1/8th of my batch into my bottling bucket. I slowly poured the priming sugar solution in while the other 7/8th of the beer was being added. I poured the solution against the wall as to not cause any bubbles.

Did I do something wrong? I was following the instructions and I thought that swirling beer should have mixed up the solution decently.

The other 40 beers I added a Cooper's Carb drop too and re-capped them. So far none have exploded but it's still early. I am down about a total of 10 beers now though

 

[bier-brauer]

Sounds like your priming solution didnt mix well. The way I do it is, I poor the broiled then cooled, priming solution into the bottom of my bottling bucket and siphon the beer into it. Never had an issue with carbonation this way.

 

[Revvy]

I hate to tell you, but it is the same type of problem as if you had opened it at 1 week. 3 weeks is the minimum, but some beers take longer to carb up. It can be 8 weeks, it can be 6 months, it really depends on the gravity of the beer, and the temp at carbing.

Your beer gushed because you opened all of them warm. They were probably on the cusp of being ready but not chilling them forced all the co2 out of solution and they gushed.

I can't stress this enough...CARBONATION IS 99.99% FOOLPROOF- If you add sugar, and your not doing an extremely high grav beer where you've overwhelmed your yeast and not put in more yeast...YOUR BEER WILL CARB WHEN IT IS READY TO CARB.

If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them more time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually. A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation. Just time.

Don't be so quick to fix something until it's been maybe 8 weeks, and ti's been above 70 the whole time.

And if you initially added sugar, don't add any more. When it does carb, which it will, it will be more than likely over carbed. And if it's too over carbed, then bottles go boom.

If you feel like you have to "do something" then add more YEAST. You won't risk bottle bombs with adding yeast, nor will you get over carbonation.

But if a beer's not carbed and you added sugar....then that sugar is still present, it's just that the yeast hasn't gotten to it yet.

AND THEY WILL.

 

[Revvy]

Priming solution not mixing is a myth....The yeast will manage to swim to wherever the sugar is. They go after sugar like flys go after poop.

 

[bechard]

Great tip Revvy, I'll remember that one.

 

[unionrdr]

I did my first bulk priming this week with my new bottling/secondary bucket I whipped up. I let the bucket get a couple inches of beer in it before slowly pouring in the priming solution near the rising surface of the beer. Let it finish racking,then sanitized my brewing spoon & stirred it lightly 12-15 times. No froth,just gently. We'll know around the 4th of July. 11G of ale we brewed & bulk primed gave us 4.75 cases of ale.

 

[Zixxer10R]

I hate to tell you, but it is the same type of problem as if you had opened it at 1 week. 3 weeks is the minimum, but some beers take longer to carb up. It can be 8 weeks, it can be 6 months, it really depends on the gravity of the beer, and the temp at carbing.

Your beer gushed because you opened all of them warm. They were probably on the cusp of being ready but not chilling them forced all the co2 out of solution and they gushed.

I can't stress this enough...CARBONATION IS 99.99% FOOLPROOF- If you add sugar, and your not doing an extremely high grav beer where you've overwhelmed your yeast and not put in more yeast...YOUR BEER WILL CARB WHEN IT IS READY TO CARB.

If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them more time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually. A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation. Just time.

Don't be so quick to fix something until it's been maybe 8 weeks, and ti's been above 70 the whole time.

And if you initially added sugar, don't add any more. When it does carb, which it will, it will be more than likely over carbed. And if it's too over carbed, then bottles go boom.

If you feel like you have to "do something" then add more YEAST. You won't risk bottle bombs with adding yeast, nor will you get over carbonation.

But if a beer's not carbed and you added sugar....then that sugar is still present, it's just that the yeast hasn't gotten to it yet.

So what you're saying is that if you bottle condition at fermentation temps it won't carb up? Perhaps i received bad information but the way it was explained to me was that temps above 70 but below the killing-yeast-temp only speed up fermentation. Since bottle conditioning is, in essence, slow fermentation the theory must hold true that above 70 degree conditioning should not harm the beer, and by proxy should maybe even decrease the time to fully carbonate.

With all that said, i've had a hefe in bottles for 5 weeks with absolutely NO carbonation at all. You can see the gas when you pop the top but there was ZERO carbonation. All these were in temps steadily around 73-76. Some of this information was gathered by reading some of your posts, Revvy.

I just bought a kegging setup though. I didn't want to screw with bottles anymore. In case anyone wonders, the hefe burst carb'd nicely and that was after i literally poured each bottle into the keg. Lots and lots of oxygenation at that point i'm assuming. Perhaps i purged the O2 out when i forced CO2 into the keg but i certainly don't remember bleeding the keg after adding the gas so i can't be for sure.

Either way you look at it, it's really hard to hurt your beer so long as you think about something before you do it. If it seems like a long shot or something crazily exotic that isn't in the same realm of sanity then you probably shouldn't do it. Seriously, RDWHAHB.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,even though I've streamlined my bottling process,this bulk priming thing seemed intriguing,but Terra incognita. After using two priming calculators,I found I'm right in there style-wise with the amount of dex/sucrose I used (4.55oz) in 2C of hot water.
I now see how great those priming calculators are For getting the right amount of carbonation. But I'm wondering if dissolved proteins have something to do with carbonation as well as head? Could this be part of the op's problem? Could this slow down carbonation too?

 

[LKABrewer]

Priming solution not mixing is a myth....The yeast will manage to swim to wherever the sugar is. They go after sugar like flys go after poop.

Priming solution not mixing is NOT a myth. I always taste the last couple of ounces left in the bucket after bottling (can't let it go to waste!). The last time I bottled without stirring the last bit tasted like pure sugar. That batch had very inconsistent priming as well (most had no carbonation, a few had too much). I see no reason not to give it a gentle stirring to make sure the sugar mixes properly.

 

[unionrdr]

That's why I gave mine a gentle stirring of 12-15 rounds. It just made sense to me to be sure it mixes evenly from top to bottom in the bucket.

 

[cshamilton]

From my experience, I always rack on top of the priming sugar solution (no beer in the bucket) - no extra stirring or anything and haven't had a problem. There could be some slight variation in concentration - IT is possible that your syrup just dropped to the bottom and didn't get mixed well, but even so everything would have gotten some sugar and should carb up (some more some less). Patience is key - if it is not carbed well at 4 weeks? Then try at 6 weeks.

What's also not clear - did you chill the beer for at least 24 hours to make sure the CO2 dissolved into solution? I've heard of people opening one warm and having gushing - then chilling everything and it being great. Gases dissolve best in cold liquids, if your beer was warm only a small amount of CO2 would be in solution and all the gas in the head space will cause the beer to gush out.

 

[unionrdr]

That's all quite true about chilling to absorb more co2 more efficiently. But I like to add a few inches of beer to my bottling bucket before easing the rest of the beer onto it. And a little stirring to be sure just gets rid of one more potential problem to solve.

 

[MazdaMatt]

OP, did you put it in the fridge for 1 week after the 3-4 weeks of bottle conditioning? If not, then the CO2 was up in the neck and not in the solution.

Also, you kept saying "no head". Not all carbonated beer has head. Did it have bubbles rising but just no collection of bubbles on top? That would be carbonated, but no head.

 

[dallasdb]

Priming solution not mixing is a myth....The yeast will manage to swim to wherever the sugar is. They go after sugar like flys go after poop.

Is there any evidence or research to back this?

Not argumentative, just wondering.

 

[zepolmot]

I've always put my cooled priming sugar into the bottom of the bucket and let the beer swirl into it. Its as mixed as its going to get at that point IMHO

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

I have used revvys bottling method for every batch with no issues except my own imaptience. I batch prime by boiling my sugar in water and dumping into the bottom of the bucket and racking the beer right on top. I stir it a little bit about halfway through then after it is done filling...... I do believe however that sometimes people MIGHT be making the priming solution too thick. I have no proof of this but I believe the solution will mix better if it is thinner so I use at least one bottle of bottled water for every batch of priming sugar......To the OP, I have had beers that at 3 weeks were flat as a pancake....at 3 weeks and 3 days perfectly carbed. I have had some flat as a pancake and I take em out and flip the bottles over and warm em up a little carb right up in a few days.

 

[unionrdr]

That's why I dissolve the priming sugar in 2C of hot water. I've read where some were using 1C or so. Gotta keep it thin so it'll swirl around & dissolve quick.

 

[GreenDragon]

OP, did you put it in the fridge for 1 week after the 3-4 weeks of bottle conditioning? If not, then the CO2 was up in the neck and not in the solution.

I did not put it in the fridge for a week, I wasn't aware of that. I'll give it a try next time. Thanks!

Also, you kept saying "no head". Not all carbonated beer has head. Did it have bubbles rising but just no collection of bubbles on top? That would be carbonated, but no head.

No bubbles, no nothing. I poured it into an imperial glass even. I poured it down the middle for maximum head. No rising bubbles, just a few at the top caused by the pour, no foam at all.