Very interesting
New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
- Thread starter Braufessor
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nick sekerak
Well-Known Member
Dry hopping not in a bag is something i have been scared to try. I have a fastferment conical, does anyone have tips on doing this or what methods work best for dry hopping without a bag. I am just worried about getting all the hops out when you dump the conical. I can never seem to empty the fast ferment 100% of all the trub/yeast when i try dumping it.
Then don't dump it all, Cold crash it to drop the hops. Free ranging hops are the way to get the best extraction.
ttuato
Well-Known Member
Free float, cold crash for at least24hrs, Install a filter in your transfer line and discard the first few ounces that exposed to air in the line then proceed with transfer.
https://www.amazon.com/Line-Strainer-stainless-filter-screen/dp/B00CH2JSIY
I dryhop 1.5-2 oz per gallon. No more issues after I added the inline filter. If you don’t cold crash the filter will clog though.
https://www.amazon.com/Line-Strainer-stainless-filter-screen/dp/B00CH2JSIY
I dryhop 1.5-2 oz per gallon. No more issues after I added the inline filter. If you don’t cold crash the filter will clog though.
@ttuato, is it easy to get all of the air out of that filter during the transfer? I would be paranoid about a little air pocket "contaminating" all the beer that flows past it. I would love to try something like that but want to be sure that it's designed to push all air out quickly. I have a similar filter for a non-brewing related application, and there is one area in the filter that always has an air bubble hanging around in it no mattet what I do.
ttuato
Well-Known Member
yes. The design is such that the “in” port flows inside the filter and is placed lower than the “out” port , enabling all of the air to be evacuated. BUT the filter must be held upright at first to completely fill with beer and push out the air. After I discard thos first few ounces I just let the filter dangle free.
If you spund - Any “air” that forms inside after the flow starts is CO2 escaping from the beer due to decreased pressure from the inline filter. Dont worry about that “air”.
The OG inline filter is called “BouncerMD” lots of reviews on here, reddit, and amazon. The link I posted is a cheaper knockoff design.
FYI - I started a rigorous cold side lodo routine about 8 months, that included this filter tand have not had oxidations issues since. Using this filter eliminated having to stop transfers to clean clogged poppets/disconnects where I was getting some oxygen ingress in the past.
If you spund - Any “air” that forms inside after the flow starts is CO2 escaping from the beer due to decreased pressure from the inline filter. Dont worry about that “air”.
The OG inline filter is called “BouncerMD” lots of reviews on here, reddit, and amazon. The link I posted is a cheaper knockoff design.
FYI - I started a rigorous cold side lodo routine about 8 months, that included this filter tand have not had oxidations issues since. Using this filter eliminated having to stop transfers to clean clogged poppets/disconnects where I was getting some oxygen ingress in the past.
I can't imagine what is going on. I have never had a plugged poppit and all I do is cold crash to drop the hops, and there is no doubt that they drop, then pressure transfer with a racking cane. I can see where the bottom of the cane is in relation to the trub layer in the carboy. I initially set it up at 17" below the carboy cap, I push it to the side and adjust the depth when draining the last gallon to keep it from pulling debris off the bottom. In the end I have no more than a pint of beer above the trub, I also tilt the carboy about 10 deg. Seems very simple to me. My kicked kegs have very little debris in the bottoms, definitely not particulate matter.
Awesome info @ttuato. Thanks! Your link above was for the 50 mesh (0.012"). Based on your experience with that one, do you think the 20 mesh (0.036") filter will be enough? All I want this thing to do is prevent clogged poppets. I'm fine with particles larger than 0.036" getting into my kegs because my transfers generally run pretty free of hop debris, so there shouldn't be much getting in. It's just the beginning and end of the transfers that are pretty mudded up with hop debris.
It is all very easy when you can see in the fermenter and you have a racking cane that you can move around! I used to do it your way. When in stainless, you can't see anything and you really can't adjust where it pulls from, so hop debris gets sucked up no matter what.
ttuato
Well-Known Member
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
the electric brewery is also selling some little SS filters designed for use in kegs, but they might work in conicals and such...haven't tried one but it might work well.
https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com...r/products/hop-stopper-2-0-keg-edition-1-pack
https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com...r/products/hop-stopper-2-0-keg-edition-1-pack
troglodytes
Well-Known Member
I've got to say thank to all. My closed loop transfer to keg went smoothly this time and when I tasted the sample I pulled for myself it was the best tasting, straight from the fermenter, beer I've made to date. The hops were just so pungent and dank and the smell was just something else. Definitely my best presentation of hops since I start brewing and that's saying something since the last batch I made featured 10 oz of Mosaic.
I have to say the schedule of soft crash after fermentation and then dry hopping post terminal gravity instead of a bio-transformation or early drop hop really made a difference here. The beer is 14 days past yeast pitch with a 2 day dry hop / 2 day cold crash and there is zero yeast or hop burn to speak of, just a little greeness that will settle out after sitting cold for a couple days. The bitterness is pronounced but not over the top. The hop flavor and aroma is just off the charts dank and resinous and tangerine. I did an El Dorado/Manderina Bravaria hop mix and it is an unexpectedly great flavor combination and something you don't taste every day with the use of so much tropical and citrus forward hops in today's NEIPAs.
Thanks to Braufessor for the recipe and Couchsending for the process. I'll update with a pic once its carbonated if I can remember to do so before drinking it all (we've got a big BBQ planned for next weekend, so it won't last long).
I have to say the schedule of soft crash after fermentation and then dry hopping post terminal gravity instead of a bio-transformation or early drop hop really made a difference here. The beer is 14 days past yeast pitch with a 2 day dry hop / 2 day cold crash and there is zero yeast or hop burn to speak of, just a little greeness that will settle out after sitting cold for a couple days. The bitterness is pronounced but not over the top. The hop flavor and aroma is just off the charts dank and resinous and tangerine. I did an El Dorado/Manderina Bravaria hop mix and it is an unexpectedly great flavor combination and something you don't taste every day with the use of so much tropical and citrus forward hops in today's NEIPAs.
Thanks to Braufessor for the recipe and Couchsending for the process. I'll update with a pic once its carbonated if I can remember to do so before drinking it all (we've got a big BBQ planned for next weekend, so it won't last long).
What is this soft crash you speak of? Or a post # I can read.
My NEIPA should be done fermenting any day now. Looking to cold crash to drop hop particles out of suspension.
troglodytes
Well-Known Member
The exact process isn't taken from this thread. the two main threads I've read start to finish on NEIPAs is this one and the NEIPA dont's thread (which turned into a controversial discussion). I was intrigued with the process in this post:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/neipa-dont’s.647852/page-4#post-8462117
and followed it to a tee. The results were fantastic and I can tell you that when I took the hydrometer sample upon adding dry hops after the 2 day "soft crash" to 55F post fermentation, it was the clearest hydrometer sample. Just the small drop from 68F to 55F drop a ton of yeast out of suspension and the resulting dry hop flavor and aroma is noticeable. I added no hops during active fermentation and CO2 purged the fermenter after adding and removing dry hops.
I have 2 of these and dummy me attempted to close transfer with that attached at the end of the dip tube....so I got the inside of it full of hops. I think in order to use one with a NEIPA, I'd have to quickly remove the dip tube, attach and place back into the keg.
Thanks! I was going to go colder, more like 38f for a couple days but if 55 works then that's good.
RTE
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A bit off topic, but this recent article on Shaun Hill was a fun read. I was surprised to read that "he puts some oats" in his beers. I'm guessing its a very small amount but interesting tidbit nonetheless. Not that oats in a NEPIA is a big secret or anything.
"When I asked Hill the secret, he was evasive. He’s sick of other brewers copying his beers. He allowed that he puts some oats in every beer he makes (“I like oatmeal”), which gives a creamy mouthfeel, and he mentioned that most brewers don’t think enough about water chemistry."
https://newengland.com/yankee-magazine/living/profiles/shaun-hill-and-the-price-of-perfection/
"When I asked Hill the secret, he was evasive. He’s sick of other brewers copying his beers. He allowed that he puts some oats in every beer he makes (“I like oatmeal”), which gives a creamy mouthfeel, and he mentioned that most brewers don’t think enough about water chemistry."
https://newengland.com/yankee-magazine/living/profiles/shaun-hill-and-the-price-of-perfection/
VirginiaHops1
Well-Known Member
Interesting read, thanks for posting. Sounds like the dude desperately needs to get laid
ttuato
Well-Known Member
Follow up from this post a while back @Braufessor I finally got around to brewing a NEIPA w/ Barke Pilsner - I did use malted oats & chit malt though. It has been 3 weeks since brew day and just poured my first glass. There is a very subtle difference in the malt flavor but I cannot say for certain that I prefer it vs my usual GP base malt as I did not do a side by side. It was a fun experiment but likely to not repeat because the cost difference makes this not worth it to me - Barke $80 delivered vs GP $45 (club bulk buy); plus the extended boil time for pilsner malt lengthens my brew day.
One thing that is a definite improvement is the foam / lacing. Here is a before shot show the coloring & tight foam bubbles - to be fair the chit malt is likely contributing some here too.
And the lacing shot - 15mins later. The head decreased about 50% but never went away.
I am convinced that Pilsner malt is the secret of “Foam Brewers” from VT. They have the best foam / lacing of any commercial NEIPA brewers that I have ever seen.
ryanm8
Well-Known Member
Here's my latest...
2-row 75.5%
Flaked Oats 15%
White Wheat 7.5%
Honey Malt 2%
2-row 75.5%
Flaked Oats 15%
White Wheat 7.5%
Honey Malt 2%
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
For those of you who ferment in cornies - I use a Gas QC with a short amount of tubing as a blow off. I have historically not fed that tubing into a jar of sanitizer. Do you think this could be a cause oxidation? I ferment in corny then pressure transfer to serving keg and I still seem to have oxidized beers (dull hop flavors). I only open fermenter for the one DH.
Also, for the pre DH soft crash, should I keep the blowoff in the sanitizer jar? Remove and add 2-3 psi of head pressure? Just started soft crash this morning and I currently have the blowoff to sanitizer jar setup.
Also, for the pre DH soft crash, should I keep the blowoff in the sanitizer jar? Remove and add 2-3 psi of head pressure? Just started soft crash this morning and I currently have the blowoff to sanitizer jar setup.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
It’s also claimed by many hb and some in this thread that he never uses oats in his beers, just dextrin malts.
Even the brewer who tend to be open about the grain bills, hops, and process, I’m sure keep lots of what they believe gives them the edge, a secret
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
You should take off the gas line and crash. You could pressurize the keg if you wanted.
Fill your serving keg with sterilizer and water to the top and connect your fermenting keg gas post to the serving kegs gas post. Then connect the serving kegs liquid post to a hose in a 7 gallon pale. The fermentation will push the sterilizer solution out of the serving keg and fill it with pure co2 and will prevent any suck back. Now you have a pure co2 environment for the pressure transfer to the serving keg after dryhoping
I ferment in kegs.
I always put the blow off in a jar of Star San for pales ales....etc.
I do what Dgallo was talking about and purge kegs with the co2 off gassing from the primary through the dip tube of the secondary/serving keg. The blow off goes from the secondary/serving keg into the blow off jar. You do not need to fill the secondary/serving keg with water/Star San....fermentation provides enough co2 to replace the entire volume of o2 in the secondary/serving keg.
In this picture I've removed the blow off from the secondary at the tail end of fermentation....which will provide enough pressure to keep the secondary/serving keg under positive pressure....about 3-5 volumes.
Once fermentation is complete and a VDK test is a go....then I'll detach the secondary/serving keg and set it aside. Then I'll attach my co2 gas at 2-4 psi in order to provide positive pressure to the primary keg during the cold crash.
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beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
Its stated on their website they only put pale and dextrin malt though.
The plot is thickening.
What is the volume you are fermenting in the primary keg? How do you keep the krausen from dumping onto the secondary?
Around 3.5-4 gallons...so no issues with krausen in a 5 gallon keg.
I’ve gone as high as 4.5 gallons and with Fermcap I only get a tiny bit of blow off. At 4 gallons I don’t have problems.
I'd like to get some advice on grain and hop bills for a brew I plan to do this Saturday, July 6. I have 19 batches of this style under my belt and have used plenty of Galaxy, Citra, and Mosaic, so I want to steer clear of them unless they're only used in a supporting role. I have also used flaked oats in most beers, so I wouldn't mind using just a little or none at all.
What I am definitely doing:
Imperial A24 yeast
Dry hopping after soft crashing
Whirlpooling. I am open to temperature suggestions. I have tried a variety of temps and times already.
A little honey malt
Shooting for ~1.014 final gravity
6% ABV
I currently have the following hops but will buy something else if I can get them in time:
12 oz Amarillo
8 oz Lemon Drop
1.25 lb Vic Secret
2.5 lb Mosaic
1 lb Mandarina
2 lb Galaxy
2 lb Huell Melon
I wouldn't mind incorporating Idaho 7 and/or Nelson.
Anyone want to help me out?
What I am definitely doing:
Imperial A24 yeast
Dry hopping after soft crashing
Whirlpooling. I am open to temperature suggestions. I have tried a variety of temps and times already.
A little honey malt
Shooting for ~1.014 final gravity
6% ABV
I currently have the following hops but will buy something else if I can get them in time:
12 oz Amarillo
8 oz Lemon Drop
1.25 lb Vic Secret
2.5 lb Mosaic
1 lb Mandarina
2 lb Galaxy
2 lb Huell Melon
I wouldn't mind incorporating Idaho 7 and/or Nelson.
Anyone want to help me out?
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Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
I love Nelson but I’d hold off a bit on using it until the 2019 lot hits for HBers. It should be soon because I know some big name NEIPA breweries, includinb Treehouse, recieved some earlier this month.
With what you have I have a few Combos I really like;
1) Amarillo/mosaic at a 2:1 ratio
2) Amarillo/mandarina/Huell at 1:1:2
SRJHops
Why did the rabbit like NEIPA's so much?
Here are some of my thoughts, FWIW:
I'd swap out the flaked oats for malted oats. I am getting terrific results with malted oats, plus Janish says that flaked oats can pull hop oils/phenols out of suspension.
I'd shoot for a higher ABV. Janish suggests that higher ABVs are better at holding the flavor/phenols.
I am loving A24; your FG looks good.
For the WP temps, I am currently at 205 (right after flameout) for 10 minutes; 175 for 30 minutes; and 165 for 10 minutes. But this is really an area that seems to lack consensus, right? I just read the Julius clone recipe in Zymurgy that uses only one WP addition at 108 degrees for an hour! What WP temps and times have you been using of late?
Idaho 7 seems great for WP. I'd go easy on the Galaxy, favoring the WP for that too -- or at least use it early in the DH as opposed to late.
Not sure how big of a batch you are making, but it seems like you have plenty of hops to work with! I do think you will be well served by at least using some Citra for both the WP and DH.
I am hoping to brew over the holiday weekend too. Best wishes to you for great brew day and awesome batch!
