36 hours is fine. Ideally you're throwing them in while fermentation is on it's way down to keep the majority of the aroma in. However with this style if it's not hoppy enough just add more when you rack to keg
Along with DH technique mentioned you have a way to keep oxygen out?View attachment 568204
Here is mine that I just brewed ~24 hours ago. It’s only my second brew, ever and my first NEIPA. So far it’s bubbling away nicely.
As a new brewer, I was definitely expecting a more rigorous fermentation after reading all 160+ pages on this thread. I’m using 1318.
I’m planning on dry hopping during active fermentation. So, I’m thinking in the morning so at around 36 hours post pitch. Does that sound about right?
Looking forward to how this one will turn out!
I started 30min mashes, or less, while measuring gravity every 5min. Seems to max out by then. Pinthouse Pizza head brewer and I had a big chat about it. He's done 5min mashes before with no adverse effects. I'm always interested in technique descriptions for keeping oxygen and diacetyl out while maximizing flavor.This is a great beer. I understand there is some debate about the methods commercial brewers are actually using to make NEIPA but the bottom line is that this recipe and the advice provided by Braufessor results in great beer.
I did make a variation on this recipe with a 2:2:1 combination of Mosaic, Galaxy and Amarillo and it was good. Different--it reminded me of overripe fruit--but still very good.
My latest attempt was made mostly true to the original recipe--except I only mashed it for 30 minutes. And only boiled it for 30 minutes too. And I'm already drinking it just 9 days after brew day. And it's great! I'll save the details for another thread for those who are into speedy brewing but I'm standardizing on a 30-minute mash and 30-minute boil for all my beers plus I'm turning them around in 2 weeks, sometimes less. So far it's working great--at least within the context of my processes, on my equipment and with the kinds of beers I like to brew, this one included.
Thanks for the recipe Braufessor--I don't think it's a stretch to say this thread is defining the homebrew perspective on brewing NEIPA.
I started 30min mashes, or less, while measuring gravity every 5min. Seems to max out by then.
I'll check it out thanks. Forgot to mention there's a big difference between stirring and not stirring also. I give it a good stir every 5min or so. The new setup is on my stove so I have no issues maintaining temp.The bulk of conversion happens very quickly, but you likely haven't maximized your extract after only 30 minutes.
I normally see 90% of the total starches converted within 30 minutes. The next 90 minutes is to get the last 10%. It does require an increase in temperature though. If you are single infusion mashing i can definitely see reaching a plateau below the true maximum. Malt datasheets will tell you the real maximum for your lot of grain, if available.
I'll check it out thanks. Forgot to mention there's a big difference between stirring and not stirring also. I give it a good stir every 5min or so. The new setup is on my stove so I have no issues maintaining temp.
Along with DH technique mentioned you have a way to keep oxygen out?
24g/l for the dry hop... that's like 19oz in a 6gal .
They did not said anything about biotransformation. maybe they don't...
In DIPA v4, the blend of Citra, Amarillo, Simcoe and Mosaic hops was added during fermentation to enable biotransformation to occur; in v5, the hops were added after fermentation to illustrate standard dry-hop aroma.
The differences between the two ales are apparent immediately. While v4 pours a pale tangerine hue—not perfectly clear, but you can certainly see through it—v5 is almost completely opaque and seems to have more retention in its sand-colored cap. It’s as stark a visual contrast as you’d get putting a bright West Coast-style IPA up against a turbid Northeast variety. The nose of v4 is catty, funky and herbal, but with nice tropical notes. Chives, mango, tangerine and a little wet grass swirl in a heady, perfumed blend atop juicy, pulpy orange and papaya. The aroma of v5 takes an alternate route: It’s lemonade-citrusy and so full of additional orange peel, orange blossom, honey and lime notes, it should probably be planted in a verdant California orchard. Smooth earthiness and a slight green pepper character accent the mix.
The beers’ flavors diverge as well. In v4, the hops come across as woody, almost mossy, with notes of overripe orange, mango notes, chopped onions, fresh grass blades and tangerine pulp injected throughout. More bright citrus shines in v5’s sip, with spikes of lime and garlic cloves. A finishing flash of mint seems messier than v4, and the bitterness is rougher, but its texture seems softer, with bitterness that doesn’t clear away quite as quickly.
If I had to choose: probably v4, even though I preferred v5’s aroma. DIPA v5 is intriguing but feels somewhat messy; v4 has a better close to the sip and seems a more put-together drink.
Folks here may be interested in Cloudwater's latest blog, talking about their plans to revive their DIPA v3 from two years ago, and also a v3.1 using all the knowledge they've gained since then (and going from 9g/l to 24g/l dry hop!). It's worth reading their other blogs, they went into quite a lot of detail about their process for their DIPA v1 for instance.
For those that don't know Cloudwater, Ratebeer have them as their number 2 brewery in the world behind Hill Farmstead - so ahead of Trillium, Treehouse etc. Worth listening to.
Those were all our concerns in the beginning for many of us too. I spray the lid, hands, and hop bags with StarSans. Never an issue.What's the consensus on dry hopping right at yeast pitch? I'm doing the spunding / closed transfer gig which I'm loving and I'd rather not have to open the fermenting keg at all if possible.
Those were all our concerns in the beginning for many of us too. I spray the lid, hands, and hop bags with StarSans. Never an issue.
It can have a negative affect for sure.... especially a beer like this. That said - I DON'T do closed transfer from primary to my serving keg with this beer. The main reason is that I had more trouble with clogging things up and long transfers - and in the end, I felt I was almost making things worse than the streamlined process I had been using.
I do take many precautions to reduce oxygen as much as possible with moving this beer though. And, in my experience, the process I use works. Worth noting however, I am usually finishing kegs of this beer by 5 weeks from brew day.
Whatever process you are using, it is imperative that you find something for your set up that minimizes opportunity for oxygen exposure to a minimum.
Brau - what's your primary to keg transfer process. Sorry if I missed it earlier; this is a huge thread.
Anyone planning on getting the Fermentasaurous for their NEIPAs? Sounds like the perfect marriage. Have a brew pub planned so sticking with original equipment till then.
Anyone planning on getting the Fermentasaurous for their NEIPAs? Sounds like the perfect marriage. Have a brew pub planned so sticking with original equipment till then.
I had a couple "V-Vessel" fermentors once upon a time..... basically, the same thing. I was not impressed. One BIG issue with fermentors like this (especially for a beer like this) is this........
Initially, you ferment the beer and all the trub falls in that ball.
Then, You take it off, and clean it out, and put it back on........
The second you put it back on and open the valve back up, two things happen.
1.) It sucks starsan through your airlock into your beer as the beer drops into that ball.
2.) The air (oxygen) that was in that ball, belches up through your beer....... Not good for a beer like this.
If I was going to go that direction, I would pay the extra $ and get the SS Brew Buckets. Or, I would ferment in Corny kegs and do things closed transfer.
I use SS Brewbuckets with spigot.
A couple days before I want to transfer, I move them up on counter to let them sit in place and settle
I fill a keg with star san and push it out with CO2. I pop lid open, put tubing on spigot and that reaches bottom of keg, and just fill keg via gravity. I place the lid back over the opening to reduce open space. It fills quickly, in a couple minutes. I have CO2 hooked to keg and the last half gallon or so, I turn on CO2 to 1-2 pounds of pressure to push more CO2 into head space toward end. Once keg is full, I put lid back on, leave vent open and continue to purge head space for a minute or so. Then I hit it with 20-25lbs to seat the lid.
I also use SS Buckets and also purge a keg the same way. However my method varies where all I do is release the keg pressure and keep the purge valve open and hook up a hose to the spigot but on the other end of the hose I fill the keg from the out valve so it also fills from the bottom but I never remove the lid to allow potential mass O2 in.
I've tried that (and I often use that method with things like blonde, pils, etc....) However, for whatever reason, I have never had a lot of success doing that with this beer. It has always been exceedingly slow and even stopped altogether on some occasions and I had to resort to other methods that introduced even more oxygen.
Do you leave the post and the disconnect in tact, or do you take the "guts" out of them? That would be a better method for sure, but I have struggled with implementing it from time to time and just kind of went the the simple procedure.
I leave absolutely everything in tact. I will say however, I bag my dry hops with marbles and floss to keep them submerged half way so they don't sink and block the drain tube in the bucket.
Okay This is just kind of an update post. The original recipe is great as is but, here are some slightly different things I have started to do, minor changes, observations, etc. After a certain amount of time, you cannot edit a post so I cant really get in to make changes to the OP. I do think I can get this post linked into the OP though. Some of what follows is basically the same as the OP . Some is different and updated. I will put the updated parts in bold italics
**I brew 6.5 gallons of finished beer (post boil)..... this allows me to leave some hop/trub behind in boil kettle and fermenter and get 5 gallons eventually into serving keg. If you finish with 5 gallons post boil, you might want to adjust hops down a bit.
6.5 gallons post boil
5.75 gallons into fermenter
5 gallons into keg
GRAIN BILL:
1.060 OG . I think this makes a perfect compromise between getting into DIPA range (having beers that are just too high in abv. for my preference) and going too far toward 1.050 where the beer may become too much of a session IPA for some peoples preferences.
% and the actual amt. I use for 6.5 gallons @ 84% mash efficiency (your efficiency may vary so use the percentages)
40% Rahr 2 Row (5.5 lbs)
40% Golden Promise (or similar Maris Otter) (5.5 lbs)
8% Flaked Oats (1 lb)
4% Flaked Barley 1/2 lb)
4% Weyerman Wheat (1/2 lb)
2% Flaked Wheat (1/4 lb)
2% Honey Malt (1/4 lb)
60 minute mash @152-154)
*Note on grain . Using all 2 Row for Base is probably fine. Using any combination of flaked Oats/Wheat/Barley to get into the 15-20% range is proably fine too. I do like the addition of Honey Malt and recommend keeping it.
HOPS:
**60 Min. = .75 oz Warrior
**Flame Out = 1oz. each of Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic
**Chill to 160 or below and add 1oz. each of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy. Stop chiller and allow hops to sit for 30 minute or so. Stir up/whirlpool wort every 5 minutes or so.
Chill to 62-64 and let hops settle out as much as possible. Transfer wort to fermenter. I tend to leave behind .75 gallons of trub and hops (this is why I brew 6.5 gallon batch).
**Dry Hop #1- At day 4-6 (basically when there are a few gravity points left and beer is still fermenting). Add the following to primary fermenter:
1.5 oz. Citra
1 oz. Mosaic
.5 oz. Galaxy
**Dry Hop #2 - Around day 12, transfer to CO2 purged dry hopping keg with
1.5 oz. Citra
1 oz. Mosaic
.5 oz. Galaxy
(I use this strategy: http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09...no-oxygen.html )
Day 14 - Jump from Dry hop keg to serving keg. Force carbonate to moderate/moderate-low. For carbonation, I usually hook it up at 25 psi for 2 days and then back it off to 10-12 psi - generally seems to carb up best after a few days, but fine to drink after 2-3 days.
Many folks who don't keg, or don't have a dry hopping keg ask about adding all the hops to primary, or adding all the hops in a single dry hop..... that isn't what I do, but you have to make things fit your system and your process. Others do it with fine success. There is no reason it should not work to do that if it fits your system better
WATER PROFILE:
There are multiple directions to go here. Currently, I am partial to the following water addtions - 100% RO water. I add per gallon of mash and sparge water -
Gypsum = .9 grams/gallon
CaCl = .4 grams/gallon
Epsom = .1 gram/gallon
Canning Salt = .05 grams/gallon
Lactic Acid = I add about .5ml- 1ml (total) of lactic acid to the mash and the sparge. And may adjust a bit more . Aiming for about 5.35-5.45 mash pH and Preboil kettle pH.
Using B'run Water
Ca = 100
Mg = 5
Na = 13
Sulfate = 147
Chloride = 80
Bicarbonate = 16
Mash pH = 5.37-5.42
Final runnings pH = 5.60
Pre-boil Kettle pH = 5.40-5.45
Post Boil pH = 5.3-5.35
**Water strategies to test out for yourself to see what you like best;
2:1 Sulfate:Chloride in the 150:75 range
1:1 Sulfate:Chloride in the 120-150 range
1:2 Sulfate:Chloride in the 75:150 range
All will produce a good beer but you may find something you personally prefer.
I did go 200 sulfate:50 Cl it was fine . But, it was not what I was looking for. It definitely dried the beer out a bit. I think it definitely moved this beer away from what most of us are shooting for in a Ne IPA.
Water Profile - the simple solution:
***Many people ask about a more general guide to water because they do not know what their own water profile is, or they have not made the jump to using a water profile software. I use B'run water, and the above profile. However, if you just want to get in the ballpark of something "similar" to start with..... The simplest solution is this:
100% RO water for both mash and sparge.
Per 5 gallons of mash water: 1 tsp of CaCl + 1/2 tsp Gypsum
Per 5 gallons of sparge water: 1 tsp of CaCl + 1/2 tsp Gypsum
This should bring you in around 140 Chloride and 80 Sulfate.
Or .. to try other versions .
*The opposite: 1tsp of gypsum and ½ tsp of CaCl per 5 gallon
*Equal ratios: ¾ - 1 tsp of each per 5 gallon.
This does not take into account trying to get Na or Mg numbers. It ignores bicarbonate and as it is 100% RO, it should bring your mash pH in around 5.41 without any acid addition.
ROUGH estimate of grams to tsp of minerals:
1/4 tsp Gypsum = .9 grams
1/4 tsp CaCl = 1.1 grams
1/4 tsp Epsom Salt = 1.3 grams
1/4 tsp Canning Salt = 1.8 grams
FERMENTATION
Yeast - Conan(vermont IPA), 1318 is also a yeast many choose to use in beers like this. *** I have also found that 1272 works great. I am starting to think that there are many yeasts that would likely do just fine in beers like this. 1056, 1450, 007 . I would not be afraid to try other yeasts.
I tend to start fermentation off around 62-64 at let it free rise to 66-68 degrees through the first 3 days or so of fermentation. At that point, I like to move it somewhere that it can finish off in the 68-70-72 range.
OTHER THOUGHTS/NOTES:
I keep almost everything the same in brewing IPA's to this style. However, I do mix up the hops. I always bitter with warrior (Columbus on occasion), and always use 4 sets of 3 ounce additions at Flameout, Whirlpool, Dry Hop #1, Dry Hop #2....... but, not always the same hops. I sometimes do 100% Citra. I sometimes do equal parts of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy for all 4 additions (Grapefruit!!!!), I some times do equal parts (1.5 ounces) citra/mosaic at all 4 additions... But always the same basic amount, in the same basic schedule.
I think single hop versions of Mosaic or Galaxy would potentially be quite good. I have done 2:1 Citra:Columbus that was good. I like Simcoe/Amarillo/Centennial (but I keep centennial out of the dry hop as I find it drying). I have used Citra/Azacca which was good (although Azacca can get lost as it is not as strong as some of the others). Personally, I think dank hops like Columbus, Eureka, etc. can get out of hand in beers like this and come off as harsh and grassy .. so, I tend to really limit them to smaller amounts. Lots of combos will work .. but, at the end of the day I still find it very hard to beat Citra:Mosaic:Galaxy combos.
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