No Signs of Fermentation

[Robin0782]

So, I am doing my first cider. 5 gallons. I decided to use S-04. I bought the cider on Friday, on Saturday morning I poured all 5 gallons into a bucket, added 5 crushed Campden tabs, and placed it in my fermentaion chamber at 61°F. Then 24 hours later on Sunday morning I pitched the yeast. As of right now, Wednesday evening, I have no signs of fermentation.

The cider was bought from a local orchard, and states No Preservatives on the labels. I'm pitching another packet that I just bought of S-04 but I'm pretty worried about this. Any thoughts? Will everything be okay if the new yeast does take off?

 

[ten80]

I just recently pitched one packet of S-04 into 5 gal of juice at 58F with about the same campden dosing as you used. It took at good 3-4 days to see any bubbles and now at one week the cider is fermenting nicely. I think that S-04 is temporarily shocked by the low pH of apple juice and residual SO2 from the campden. Wine yeasts like D47 and 71B usually take off in 24-48 hours because they are highly acid- and SO2-tollerant.

If you're past 72 hours with no bubbles at all, then you might consider pitching another S-04 pack for insurance. It should take off.

 

[Robin0782]

Okay, that's good to hear. I did just pitch another pack that I rehydrated. Stirred it pretty good. I really didn't want to lose all this juice! Wasn't cheap. I also brought the temp up a couple degrees, I'll drop it to 58 as soon as I see some activity.

 

[Maylar]

What I've read on yeast packets is to pitch the (attemperated) yeast into 70°F must, and drop temp down after the lag phase. I made the mistake of pitching cold yeast into cold juice (right from the fridge) once, and it took 3-4 days to get moving.

 

[Scrumpy!]

Yup, 61 deg is a pretty cold start for any yeast, particularly commercial yeast. Yeast start growing in aerobic conditions, then when the oxygen is used up it's metabolism changes so it can grow under anaerobic conditions. That first stage is brief but its length is determined by the oxygen content and the temperature. Ideally you should pitch your yeast into relatively warm juice pretty soon after pressing while it still has a high oxygen content. Most yeast including wild yeast will start up within a day or so at 70 deg.

Once the party starts, it is time to slow it down by moving your ferment to a colder environment. Reduce the headspace to an absolute minimum to eliminate oxygen. Sixty degs will give you a fermentation that takes several weeks to several months to complete. A wild fermentation can take up to a year to finish.

 

[ten80]

I'm going to stir the pot a little with my usually temps...

As I mentioned above, I pitched at 58 and am now fermenting away happily at 52F with S-04, 71B, D47, Q23, and R4600 yeasts. None smell of S02 that I can tell, so they seem to be fermenting unstressed. The only yeast that hasn't taken off at these temperatures is EC1118 which is still sluggish even after pitching a second pack. Huh.

I think cold and slow fermentation warrants it's own discussion, I may start a thread soon.

 

[Robin0782]

Well, things are bubbling away now. I have it at 56°F right now. It was giving off a strong sulphur smell, so I added some more yeast nutrient. I read that can help. No sulphur smell anymore. Gravity is down to about 1.022. So, who knows how this will turn out but at least it's fermenting. If it turns out remotely drinkable, I will have some experience to make next years 2nd annual cider better.

 

[Scrumpy!]

Don't freak out about a mild sulfur aroma at midpoint in your fermentation. It could be your yeast is stressed or you added too much sulfite to the original juice. Not much you can do for the latter but the best thing to do for the former is to lower the temp a little more to slow things down. You are looking for a sweet spot where nutrient recycling between the decaying dead yeast (lees) and your thriving population of yeast are in balance. Adding nutrients will drive your ferment towards its end point (1.000). It is better to run out of nutrients around 1.010 and bottle then let the last gasp of your yeast carbonate in the bottle but snuff out before eating the last microgram of sugar. I liken it to a glide path with a soft landing.

 

[johnnyseko]

I liken it to a glide path with a soft landing.

Fermentation riding the ILS.....I like it!

 

[Robin0782]

I brought it down to 52°F. It's already 1.010. Yikes. That seems like a fast drop in 24 hours! Hopefully I'll still have some apple flavors left. I guess we'll see and like I said before, it's my first cider. Sometimes you just have to learn by experience.

 

[Scrumpy!]

If you really are at 1.010, its going to go to dryness. No stopping it now. Commercial yeast is brutal. It gives you little time to do the subtle tweaks that can avoid burning through all the sugar. On the bright side, let it finish, get a final SG and plot your next move. If the acid is high, you will have a very dry, very sour cider. Most people find this hard to drink.

So, how do you improve on this? First, you can add a limited amount of potassium carbonate or bicarbonate to ease that sour taste but there are limits to this. A better approach is to add malolactic bacteria NOW before the SG drops any further and smooth the malic bite by converting it to lactic acid. Potassium bicarbonate is for fine tuning and not to be used to make a major change is how acid it is.

Once this is complete, you could add an appropriate amount of priming sugar to get the carbonation you want in the bottle and up to 1 g/l Splenda to sweeten it without creating an obvious after taste. The sweetness will cover the acid to some extent.

Stay with this batch. You will learn a lot by trying to bring it to a final drinking stage. Next year, you will be wiser from what you learned this year. That's how cider works. We make some potent but rough tasting cider at first and learn to make better cider every year.

If you are going to stay with your new hobby, buy Claude Jolicour's Book, The New Cider Maker's Handbook and read it cover to cover then apply what you learned in your next batch. It has worked for many of us.

 

[ten80]

You can always add a very light liquid malt extract (pilsener or wheat) at a ratio of 2-3 lbs per 5 gallons to add some residual sweetness. Of course, the fermentation will continue with the added sugars and you'll bump up the alcohol a few percent, but malt extract is only about 70% fermentable so you'll end somewhere around 1.005-1.010 based on my experience. The malt extract really takes the edge off of an overly dry, acidic, or tannic cider. Look up the threads on Graff ciders.

 

[Robin0782]

Thanks for the advice. I will definitely check out that book. I'm going to think about these options (Splenda, DME) while I keep an eye on the gravity and see how it ends up tasting.