no boil prehopped beer kits

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wrendy - that looks real good and should be a tasty brew but why so much md.

i would stick to 4 oz per 5 g

i think the reccomended is 1 oz per g

i find that works great.

12 oz could make it too syrupy

imo
 
wrendy - that looks real good and should be a tasty brew but why so much md.

i would stick to 4 oz per 5 g

i think the reccomended is 1 oz per g

i find that works great.

12 oz could make it too syrupy

imo
Good to know … I’ll drop that down and stick with the rest.

Thanks for the knowledge drop.

Work just blew up so this may have to wait til tomorrow.

I’ll keep you posted
 
i dont know enough about dry hopping i have only done it once. will you get some of the bitterness out of the dry hopping cause thats a lot of malt to add to a kit without bittering hops. i would add hop tea. you could take a quarter or half ounce of one of the dry hops and boil it for 5- 20 mins in a liter of water to extract some hoppy bitterness then add that to fv . thats what i am doing on my next kit tomorow.
i will use either method 2 or 4

METHOD #2 more bitter​

1. Gently boil the hop pellets in 1 litre of water for 10 minutes.

2. Mix the boiled hops and water with other ingredients in the fermenter together with 2 – 3 litres of hot water.

3. Add cold water up to the 23 litre mark and stir well.

4. When the temperature is below 30 deg C. add the yeast and make your beer the usual way.


METHOD #4 not as bitter​

1. Bring about half a litre of water to the boil, then add hop pellets.

Turn the heat off at the same timeand let the mixture stand for about 10 minutes.


2. Mix the hops and water with the other ingredients in the fermenter together with about 3 litres of hot water.

3. Add cold water up to the 23 litre mark and stir well.

4. When the temperature is below 30 deg C. add the yeast and make your beer the usual way.

edit sorry i thought dip hopping was same as dry hopping i see it is not.
 
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i dont know enough about dry hopping i have only done it once. will you get some of the bitterness out of the dry hopping cause thats a lot of malt to add to a kit without bittering hops. i would add hop tea. you could take a quarter or half ounce of one of the dry hops and boil it for 5- 20 mins in a liter of water to extract some hoppy bitterness then add that to fv . thats what i am doing on my next kit tomorow.
i will use either method 2 or 4

METHOD #2 more bitter​

1. Gently boil the hop pellets in 1 litre of water for 10 minutes.

2. Mix the boiled hops and water with other ingredients in the fermenter together with 2 – 3 litres of hot water.

3. Add cold water up to the 23 litre mark and stir well.

4. When the temperature is below 30 deg C. add the yeast and make your beer the usual way.


METHOD #4 not as bitter​

1. Bring about half a litre of water to the boil, then add hop pellets.

Turn the heat off at the same timeand let the mixture stand for about 10 minutes.


2. Mix the hops and water with the other ingredients in the fermenter together with about 3 litres of hot water.

3. Add cold water up to the 23 litre mark and stir well.

4. When the temperature is below 30 deg C. add the yeast and make your beer the usual way.
Thought about making a hop tea, then I looked into dip hopping which is similar to a hop tea but has different effects, less bittering and more overall hop aroma. there are a few threads on the board that cover this but the basic idea is: Take 1.5 L of water that is between 150-180 and pour it over your desired amount of hops in your fermenter and cover and leave for 60min (generally your boil). So for this brew, I will start with that and then adjust time accordingly to meet the time requirement. Considering I have to heat the 3L of water for the HME, as well as heat the water for the "enhancer" I think I should be good to go.

I know it's an out-of-the-box approach to these types of kits, but I like pushing the limits when it comes to creativity.

Brew On!
 
IMO, this is something worth exploring ("Hopped DME"), but from 2020-2022, I was not able to find/order hoped DME -- and, in 2023, I have other interests.
And those interests are?
Looking at ingredient/process changes (e.g. /1/ & /2/) for both my BIAB and DME recipes. The hypothesis is that 'wort is wort' at the start of the boil.

Might have something to say about this in about a year or two - as updates to the "Advanced (unhopped) Extract Brewing" topic. :mug:
 
Newbie here, I received my kits last week. I've never brewed beer before and I'll outline my experience so far.
I started the draught lager kit on Saturday. I'll report back again throughout the process.

I'm following the directions as they exist in the kit. I'm making no changes and following no conventional beer
making strategy. What's on the paper is how I'm doing it (except the one that says to leave your fermenter
bucket lid half cracked, I decided not to follow that one).

I ordered draught lager, wheat beer, red ale, and brown ale. In the package I received a letter from the company
that said something to the effect of "the yeast in the kit isn't right, so we sent you more yeast". Alongside my kits
there was four 11g pouches of LalBrew Premium Series Nottingham high performance ale yeast. I discarded the
yeast in the kit and pitched a whole 11g pouch of this into my draught lager.

I ordered a jug of dextrose from Amazon and used the full recommended amount of 1kg.

The bucket is happily fermenting in my pantry, quite aggressively in fact. The airlock is bubbling wildly. The bucket lid
does start to distend a little with gas so every 8 hours I burp the brew by pushing on the lid a little and let it bubble out
of the airlock. I don't know if this is bad or not, but it's fun :cool:.

Status update

Bottled today. I did deviate from the directions slightly due to certain needs and restrictions in my life.

It stayed all a few extra days over the recommended in the fermenter.

I had no way of temperature controlling my bucket, so it fermented at whatever the ambient temperature of my house is. Anywhere from 65F to 75F plus or minus depending on weather and state of air conditioning.

I used 1 liter glass swing top bottles instead of the 500ml bottles the directions suggested. After doing the math on how many 500ml bottles I'd need it just made sense to use larger ones.

Two teaspoons of dextrose for priming in each bottle.

The bottles are in a plastic tote in my garage happily (hopefully) carbonating.

I tasted it before bottling and it wasn't sweet at all. Much darker and more flavorful than I anticipated. If I had to compare it to any known branded beer it'd be Newcastle brown (back before they sold the brand, changed the label, and started tasting bad). I think I'll be happy with it even though it's definitely not going to be like the draft lager the kit described.
 
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/swamp-cooler.199965/
swamp cooler link. it works wonders for basic brewers it really makes much more consistant and better beer then fluctuating ambient temps. its super cheap easy and usually you have everything in the house needed.

i think swamp cooler even for slight temp control is the most important thing aside from ingredients in homebrewing.

i went from making decent beer in the winter and drain pours in the summer to drinking really good beer all year round. i guess its less stress on the yeast is resulting in better tasting beer
 
Just finished mixing up the pale ale kit. It’s much darker then what I was envisioning, more like a WC IPA copper color then a pale golden color. My enhancer was 2lbs of pale dme 1 lb of dextrose and 4oz of maltodextrine. The photo makes it look like an amber, it’s not that dark IRL.

see attached
 

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Just finished mixing up the pale ale kit. It’s much darker then what I was envisioning, more like a WC IPA copper color then a pale golden color.
So the next question may be:

What (if any) are the off flavors from these old (based on color) hopped extract kits?​

I brewed with an (unfortunately) stale un-hopped LME a couple of years ago, hydro sample color was slightly lighter than yours, and got that sharp "ball point pen" off flavor. Various places, including BBR (Aug 25 / Nov 17 2005), have some additional off flavor descriptors.

But maybe "darker than advertised" hopped LME doesn't have those sharp "ball point pen" off flavors.
 
So the next question may be:

What (if any) are the off flavors from these old (based on color) hopped extract kits?​

I brewed with an (unfortunately) stale un-hopped LME a couple of years ago, hydro sample color was slightly lighter than yours, and got that sharp "ball point pen" off flavor. Various places, including BBR (Aug 25 / Nov 17 2005), have some additional off flavor descriptors.

But maybe "darker than advertised" hopped LME doesn't have those sharp "ball point pen" off flavors.
I’ll know sooner then later. It’s fermenting now with the Voss and it’s already down 28 pts and I pitched just about 12 hours ago. I expect to be racking sooner then later
 
Forgive my inexperience but when people say they added dextrose to a recipe I assume they mean the kind made from corn, not wheat. Corn sugar seems to get a bad rap so is that the reason for saying "I added 1lb of dextrose" instead of 1lb of corn sugar? Or is wheat dextrose a better alternative?
 
Dextrose is dextrose. Corn is just the cheapest/most common source. The "bad rap" is just about using as much of it as these kits call for. That's why people substitute DME for some or all of the sugar. I could be wrong, but I don't think you can actually buy dextrose made from wheat.
 
this is the pilsner kit with golden light dme made up to 4.5 gallons after 20 days in the keg without any finings. the clarity is great. the color is more golden than i wanted but it tastes really good. its just a little less bitter than i wanted and could use more graininess but no off flavor at all.
i made up the blonde lager kit yesterday and added hop tea and steeping grains. the color came out more of what i was looking for and the wort tastes great but the recipe took me over an hour with the grains and hop tea. this one should be very good.
ill post recipe and wort pics later .
 

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1.5 kg blonde lager kit pouch
4 oz of flaked corn
4 oz of carapils
4 oz of maltodextrin
10 ounces of dextrose
10 ounces of pilsen light dme

1/2 ounce of chinook hops boiled for 30 mins in 1 quart of water then strained into fermenter

this came out to 1040 so i added 6 more ounces of pilsner light dme and it came to 1043

smells tastes and looks awesome

much closer to the color i was looking for in a lager/pilsner


i split it into two fermenters
1 with diamond lager slurry at 56 deg and 1 with notty at 70
 

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I have to ask, with all the gymnastics and lipstick you have to smear on these kits, what exactly is the aversion to just starting with 100% fresh ingredients and brewing a premium product? After all is said and done, you saved what $10 max? It's one thing to argue that the kit makes good beer on its own (I wouldn't believe that), but you exhibit the confirmation that the kit isn't good as designed. Why continue to support a business/product that needs to be doctored beyond recognition to make it drinkable? I understand this might be insulting but I'm honestly curious about the motivation.
 
I have to ask, with all the gymnastics and lipstick you have to smear on these kits, what exactly is the aversion to just starting with 100% fresh ingredients and brewing a premium product? After all is said and done, you saved what $10 max? It's one thing to argue that the kit makes good beer on its own (I wouldn't believe that), but you exhibit the confirmation that the kit isn't good as designed. Why continue to support a business/product that needs to be doctored beyond recognition to make it drinkable? I understand this might be insulting but I'm honestly curious about the motivation.
If you are curious what everyone's motivation is you could read the thread. I have already stated that I expect this to be inferior to my all grain batches, but at this price point thought it would be fun to try. If you just want the best beer possible why even both with homebrewing, there are many great breweries today and the only way homebrew is cheeper is if you're time is worthless. I homebrew because like to be creative trying different ingredients and methods. Also I just wanted to see if these have improved since I started out 12 years ago.

Some people brew these kits because they don't have time right now to do a more traditional brew, or they are just getting started and thinking all grain brewing sounds too complicated.

Yes there are cheerleaders on this thread, but everyone posting here is not of the same mindset.
 
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After all is said and done, you saved what $10 max?
I decided against buying any of these for exactly this reason. It never really was $8.46 for 6 gallons of beer, it was $8.46 for 3.3 lbs of hopped LME. You can get 7 lbs of LME on Amazon for $21 and I don't really like working with LME anyway, so it's just not for me. But to each his own.

However, I will say that it can be quite satisfying to show people that you can make chicken salad out of chicken poop.
 
I have already started that I expect this to be inferior to my all grain batches, but at this price point thought it would be fun to try.
The gist of Bobby's question is about the true price point as brewed. Fluketamer's recipe in the post just above Bobby's is pretty obviously not "at this price point" and not really any easier than a standard extract brew day. Most of the other recipes in this thread also involve additional ingredients, time and effort. Even brewing as directed is at least twice the price of the kit because dextrose ain't free either, but it seems that few people actually went that route to get ~6 gallons of beer for about ~20 bucks anyway.
 
for those actually reading along , i split my chicken poop lager THAT I MIXED UP IN LESS THAN 30 MINUTES into two batches. one with lager yeast and the other with the kit yeast (m10) way back on june 14th.

i opened the chicken coup door today and decided to tap the m10 ale version after 20 days slow carbing.

its good but lacks ale flavor which i guess makes sense. its kind of plain so i imagine it would work for a pseudolager like the kit intends if you cold condition it for a while. but it is missing the crispness of my diamond lager yeast that i love so much. side by side lager vs ale yeast with the same wort is FUN. i got diamond vs notty right now on the above recipe and am curious what the results will be.

i would not recommend using the yeast in these kits if you have better yeast.

side topic - exchanging kit yeast is an entirely different subject. if you want to have discussions about kit yeast thats easy . the sister site has years of kit threads and many reference yeast substitutions. yeast substitution for THESE TYPES of kits used to be standard for years. more recently coopers included yeast has improved greatly.

kit brewing (coopers, muntons, brew demon, brewferm, festival, wherry, mangrove jack, abc, wilkos , to name a few ) is a thing sorry.

you know the chicken poop lager label is being designed as i type.

cheers
 
mac , when i go to my lhbs and pick up grain and hops for 2.5 gallon biab batch im always surprised how cheap the total is on the receipt. especially a low grain bill like a lager. i can do it for half the price of a coopers stout kit (24ish with shipping plus fermentables) .
i boost it with chocolate malt , roasted barley, a little black patent., flaked barley or oats and dme or even dextrose to boost abv. the bitterness i get from the grains and shorting the coopers kit provides enough for me that i dont add extra hops to stout kits.
however, it takes me three times as long to cook up a biab batch then to spill all this into a fv.

my next route to save time is likely going to be the dr hans shake n brew method im so curious about this one.
 
I have to ask, with all the gymnastics and lipstick you have to smear on these kits, what exactly is the aversion to just starting with 100% fresh ingredients and brewing a premium product? After all is said and done, you saved what $10 max? It's one thing to argue that the kit makes good beer on its own (I wouldn't believe that), but you exhibit the confirmation that the kit isn't good as designed. Why continue to support a business/product that needs to be doctored beyond recognition to make it drinkable? I understand this might be insulting but I'm honestly curious about the motivation.

I can't speak for the more experienced forum users, but I bought the kit because of the price
point with the full intention of following the directions to the letter. Previously I had only brewed
very simple mead and grape juice wine in one gallon batches. The cheapness of the kits and the
low fuss brewing method seemed like the perfect stepping stone to start beer brewing.

As an aside: I've been keeping track of my expenses meticulously. A side goal of mine is to see if
I can brew beer as cheaply as your average gas station macro brew. I don't care if it's great, I just
wanted to see if it was possible. With these kits it almost seemed possible but I have yet to do my
final round of math that includes the cost of the dextrose and other brewing supplies. I haven't
figured out how I will factor in the bottles and brewing equipment since they're reusable for
future brews. I realize it's more of a dream than a reality but it's a fun goal to chase.
 
I have to ask, with all the gymnastics and lipstick you have to smear on these kits, what exactly is the aversion to just starting with 100% fresh ingredients and brewing a premium product? After all is said and done, you saved what $10 max? It's one thing to argue that the kit makes good beer on its own (I wouldn't believe that), but you exhibit the confirmation that the kit isn't good as designed. Why continue to support a business/product that needs to be doctored beyond recognition to make it drinkable? I understand this might be insulting but I'm honestly curious about the motivation.
First off... I all-grain brew twice a month... but for me personally, it's about the experimentation of the "Craft". I like trying all different methods (tried the shake N brew (failure) and Double Fermentation of an all-grain saison/lager (Success)), it's a creative outlet. if it works great if it doesn't oh well. This goes for every brew I make regardless of method.

I also understand that there are people that don't have the room or the money to invest in an all-grain setup. Have a $6 food-grade bucket from lowes or homie depot and a pasta pot you can make the beer. In reality, you don't even need the pot just the bucket. Corn sugar isn't that expensive, and if you are really strapped you can use table sugar (not advised but results would be similar). In the end, they made their own homebrew, will it be the best? Unlikely, but they have the satisfaction that they made it themselves. Which in reality would hopefully spark them to do it again and possibly start saving up for a true brewing system.

To say these kits saved $10 is flat-out false. Personally, my homebrew system and all the bits and bots have cost me over $1-1.5K and I know I am on the low end of the Home brewing crafters. These beer kits can be made over and over again for about a $60 entry fee (2 buckets, sanitizer bottle wand and siphon, hydrometer, caps, capper) and 4 $10 kits that shipped free (with Nottingham yeast replacements). Might even be able to find it all cheaper on the secondary market like Facebook or craigslist.

Here is an analogy:
Person 1 goes to the store and buys a pound of pasta, a jar of sauce, a lb of ground beef, a jar of crushed garlic, and an onion. comes home and browns the beef and the onions and garlic and dumps the jar of sauce on top mixes it together lets it simmer while boiling the pasta and plates it.

Person 2 grows their own tomatoes, onions, garlic, makes their own pasta, and only goes to the store for the beef and flour. They scratch make everything and follow a similar process as Person 1.

In the end, both people made pasta with meat sauce ... which is better? Does it matter?

The thing for me is chasing the craft and being experimental, at the same time I have my tried and true recipes that are always on tap, Experimentation is the only way new things will ever be found or created.

The mixing up of the kit was to experiment with an unknown for me (I started all grain and my own recipes from day 1, never did the kit thing, and never did the extract or partial mash things either).

Failure was my tutor and success was my motivation.

Just my 2 cents take it or leave it.

Brew On!
 
mac , when i go to my lhbs and pick up grain and hops for 2.5 gallon biab batch im always surprised how cheap the total is on the receipt. especially a low grain bill like a lager. i can do it for half the price of a coopers stout kit (24ish with shipping plus fermentables) .
i boost it with chocolate malt , roasted barley, a little black patent., flaked barley or oats and dme or even dextrose to boost abv. the bitterness i get from the grains and shorting the coopers kit provides enough for me that i dont add extra hops to stout kits.
however, it takes me three times as long to cook up a biab batch then to spill all this into a fv.

my next route to save time is likely going to be the dr hans shake n brew method im so curious about this one.
I did the shake and brew ... mine crashed and burned .. it was beer but the hop burn was outrageous ... i may have rushed it so it may have been user error. Yeah, let's go with user error ... it was a fun experiment though.
 
Personally, my homebrew system and all the bits and bots have cost me over $1-1.5K and I know I am on the low end of the Home brewing crafters.
I've done extract, partial mash and all grain. I brew in cheap pots and ferment in cheap buckets. I just sprang for a "major" upgrade - a $60 propane burner and an $80 ten gallon kettle. So with respect, you're nowhere near the low end and it's not necessary to spend $1000 on equipment to brew all grain.
 
I've done extract, partial mash and all grain. I brew in cheap pots and ferment in cheap buckets. I just sprang for a "major" upgrade - a $60 propane burner and an $80 ten gallon kettle. So with respect, you're nowhere near the low end and it's not necessary to spend $1000 on equipment to brew all grain.
Point taken, but where I live I can't have propane so I had to go electric (which comes at a cost) but ROI is there too.
 
Ok, well, it's a little contradictory, in my opinion, to suggest you're chasing the craft yet using some of the most objectively poor ingredients available. It can mean different things to different people but I thought chasing the craft was doing whatever is reasonably in your means and ability to create a "thing" that you can be most proud of. I guess some joy can be attained by making something acceptable against all odds, but it's a strange fascination.
 
Sometimes it's about 'novelty', not 'experiments'.

Kit 'hacks' have been around (almost) as long as kits have been made (e.g. recipe books from the 1990s published by Storey Publications).

It's good to see that there is an active on-line community that is customizing these kits - and that they are sharing detailed recipes and detailed processes.

As for whether or not these kits actually make beer, consider the following:

wort with more than (say) 30% honey is not beer, it's braggot.​
So rather than claiming that a wort with 50% sugar is "beer", maybe just enjoy it for what it is.

eta [7/24/23]: FWIW, percentages in a grain bill are by weight.

:mug:
 
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do you mean by weight or by volume. I think some bmc beers have 30 percent adjunct



edited post
 
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Racked the pale ale to secondary today .. gave it a taste .. first I thought it was sour then on second sip it was the dip hops I was tasting. The aroma is very pleasant, I’ll let it ride and see where it ends up. Still darker then I was expecting but we will see when it hits the glass.
 
Still darker then I was expecting but we will see when it hits the glass.
For those who brew with un-hopped 'extract' on a regular basis, it's well known that one doesn't attempt to evaluate color until it's in the glass. And 'advanced' un-hopped extract brewers, working with un-hopped 'extract' of an unknown age, will often measure the color of the 'extract' before adding it to the kettle. If it's "red" at the start of the boil, it's not going to be lighter by the end of the boil.

FWIW: I remain curious about the shelf stability of no-boil hopped-extract products.

And that's a two-part curiosity.


1) Does the no-boil hopped extract darken over time? And if it does, ...
2) does the darkening (staling) create the same off flavors (e.g. 'ball point pen') that come from stale un-hopped LME?
3) (bonus question) is there a difference in packaging (pouches vs cans)?
 
a little company spin?
As I've mentioned recently (and previously, and probably a couple of times before 'prevously'), if color darkens, but those "ball point pen" off flavors don't occur, there may be something interesting here.

With regard to "un-hopped" LME, one can find honesty (aka no 'company spin') here: Secrets to Keeping your Liquid Extracts Fresh - Brewing With Briess

With regard to exBEERiment | Impact Using Old Liquid Malt Extract Has On A German Pils (Nov 2017), see the link above. It's good to see a "3rd party" confirmation of information from a malt priovider.

Honestly, I could likely find "sound bites" from BBR Aug 25 2005 / Nov 17 2005 (yes, 2005) that would confirm what the Brulosophy (2017) found.

https://help.mangrovejacks.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002784477-Why-is-there-a-variance-in-colour-between-my-two-brews-#:~:text=This%20is%20due%20to%20Maillard%20reactions%2C%20a%20type said:
Variance in liquid malt extract colour in the paler kits is common due to batch to batch variance along with natural colour pick up over time.
This is due to Maillard reactions, a type of non enzymatic browning which has a similar effect to caramelisation.

The colour pickup occurs over time and is accelerated at higher temperatures, so if the kit has been stored in a warm shop or warehouse it would be darker than if stored in cool places as we recommend.

The beer will still be fine to drink, though the darker/older one will have a richer, maltier flavour than the one lighter coloured brew.
So, assuming no "ball point pen" off-flavors, when life give gives you lemons you get old hopped extract, make lemonade make brown ales.
 
like i said i may add roasted malts to the kits to make porters and stouts if they are too dark. not sure why the lager i made which came in the same order wasn't darkened but the pilsner was? maybe it was kept in a cooler area?

in terms of pouch vs can aging i dont know i have never got a can kit that was darker than expected. but i dont know the storage conditions of either?
 

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