Newbie water Question

[Microphobik]

Hi,

Water has always been the section of any book I pick up that makes my brain turn mushy, causing me to promptly close the book. I really have no understanding of all the different numbers and abbreviations. Though I do understand some of the very basic principles.

I am in a fairly rural part of New Zealand and the water I use is pretty inconsistent. It's a mix between town supply and rain catchment. Because of that I try to use bottled water but have had no luck getting any of the companies that sell water in my area to write me back about what is in their water, and they do not sell RO or distilled water anywhere in the area. I finally found a company that sells boxed water that lists a few specs on the box and I wondered if someone could make sense of this for me and tell me if these specs tell you enough about the water I plan on using, and what I should add (if anything) to my water. I'm hoping to get a better sense of what I'm using so I can make more consistent beers. That said, I'd like to keep it pretty simple as well.

The back of the box says:

Typical analysis (mg/L)

pH Neutral 7
Oxygen (ppm) 10.5
Sodium 0.4
Magnesium (Mg) <0.08
Calcium (Ca) <0.25
Chloride (Ci) 0.8
Potassium <0.1
Silica (Sio2) 1
Nitrate (N) <0.5

Does that tell you much? Is anything important missing from the specs? What should I add to brew with this water, for light, dark, and hoppy beers?

Thanks in advance for any help you all might be able to offer.

 

[cjones]

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMTA_VmqhbQ[/ame]

this could help start you in the right direction - you could also use how to brew - john palmers water profile spread sheet

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/understanding-the-mash-ph/what-kind-of-water-do-i-need

 

[Microphobik]

Hi,

I have the book and read the water section before posting. I'm totally lost and really don't understand it. If I'm not mistaken it seems like the units are different given that I'm in NZ? And not everything I saw in the book was on the box and visa versa. I may very much be wrong and am just not understanding what I'm seeing. I just thought I'd post what was on the box in the hope that it quickly made sense to someone else who was able to say something like "I'd add a teaspoon of calcium" or something basic like that.

 

[cjones]

those numbers on the box are what you need - they are Parts per million numbers - ppm - (even tho they say mg per liter.) the greater than less than mean that the water profile is not always perfectly accurate - but will never be greater or less.

there is data that is missing that will make it difficult - sulfates and caco3 or also called alkalinity or also called hardness or softness of water. you could try and call them or email them and ask what the avg - alkalinity ppm is - and what the sulfates ppm is. - sorry you are having difficulties, by law in the us if we call or ask for drinking water info they have to answer.

the only other option i can think of - is to get RO water and just call it all 0 ppm, this is not accurate, but you will have a base line to start testing. Do this by adding salts to make a balanced water table as if your water was 0 for a simple amber beer. brew and taste - if malt sweet then add to base water to correct water profile - if over bitter the. adjust the. rebrew. or if you want all 0 brew with distilled - altho I would add atleast 25% local water to just help a bit - basically this rout you are diluting all your numbers close to 0

 

[Microphobik]

those numbers on the box are what you need - they are Parts per million numbers - ppm - (even tho they say mg per liter.) the greater than less than mean that the water profile is not always perfectly accurate - but will never be greater or less.

there is data that is missing that will make it difficult - sulfates and caco3 or also called alkalinity or also called hardness or softness of water. you could try and call them or email them and ask what the avg - alkalinity ppm is - and what the sulfates ppm is. - sorry you are having difficulties, by law in the us if we call or ask for drinking water info they have to answer.

the only other option i can think of - is to get RO water and just call it all 0 ppm, this is not accurate, but you will have a base line to start testing. Do this by adding salts to make a balanced water table as if your water was 0 for a simple amber beer. brew and taste - if malt sweet then add to base water to correct water profile - if over bitter the. adjust the. rebrew. or if you want all 0 brew with distilled - altho I would add atleast 25% local water to just help a bit - basically this rout you are diluting all your numbers close to 0

Ok, thanks. That's very helpful. Believe it or not they don't sell RO or distilled water around here. Not that I have found anyway. I'm the crazy American who buys bottled water. It's not that big around here.

I tried emailing the company a while back but had no luck. But I;ll see if I can dig up a phone number and see what they can tell me. Does the info that is provided tell you anything? Or is it useless without the info you mentioned? I may look into an RO system but they seem to be a few hundred bucks for the cheap ones here. I was trying to avoid the cost.

Thanks again.

 

[mabrungard]

Your water is already RO quality. Why would anyone be selling something that is already coming out of the taps?

By inspection, I can see that the SO4 and HCO3 concentrations would have to be very low for that water profile to balance. You could almost assume that either of them is near zero and that would be good enough for most brewing calculations.

 

[cjones]

Your water is already RO quality. Why would anyone be selling something that is already coming out of the taps?

By inspection, I can see that the SO4 and HCO3 concentrations would have to be very low for that water profile to balance. You could almost assume that either of them is near zero and that would be good enough for most brewing calculations.

+1

I would assume the numbers u don't have to be 0 - and try a test batch.

 

[cjones]

duplicate

 

[Microphobik]

Your water is already RO quality. Why would anyone be selling something that is already coming out of the taps?

By inspection, I can see that the SO4 and HCO3 concentrations would have to be very low for that water profile to balance. You could almost assume that either of them is near zero and that would be good enough for most brewing calculations.

Thanks! So your saying the water they are selling is close to RO already? That surprises me. I thought I had read that the PH of RO water tended to be low. With a PH of 7 I assumed it would need to have a normal amount of minerals in it. Am I mistaken? I only ask because my family drinks this water pretty exclusively and I have read that drinking low PH RO water exclusively was not very good for you. I'm also surprised that I've been able to brew nice, clear beers with water that is nearly RO. But I may be misunderstanding you?

Thanks for the reply.

 

[hucklb]

You can find another water calculator here: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/ It's pretty intuitive and takes the Ph impact of your grain into account. Good luck.

 

[mabrungard]

People and other animals have been drinking rainwater, which is purer than RO, for millenia. There is nothing wrong with drinking low mineral content water...you just won't be getting much mineral content from your water. That is not really a concern since food supplies most of our mineral intake.

pH is not an indicator of mineralization level. If your water utility is prudent, they are adding very minor amounts of slaked lime to the water before it enters the piping system to help decrease the corrosivity of the water. That teeny amount will bring the pH to 7 or above, but the mineralization can still be very low.

 

[Microphobik]

People and other animals have been drinking rainwater, which is purer than RO, for millenia. There is nothing wrong with drinking low mineral content water...you just won't be getting much mineral content from your water. That is not really a concern since food supplies most of our mineral intake.

pH is not an indicator of mineralization level. If your water utility is prudent, they are adding very minor amounts of slaked lime to the water before it enters the piping system to help decrease the corrosivity of the water. That teeny amount will bring the pH to 7 or above, but the mineralization can still be very low.

Ok, wow. You know your stuff. Thanks!