Newbie From Alberta

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Hello everyone,
I just started my very first brew today and have lots to learn but I am starting to do as much research as I can but any input would be appreciated also.
My first batch today was a Brew Canada 1.9kg Blonde Ale extract beer kit. I used 1kg of corn sugar for priming with 23l water and saved .25kg for bottling. Since it is my first time I just wanted to keep it simple and learn the basics. I have been reading though that the corn sugar should be replaced by DME or LME for better results. Is this true?

Thanks!

 

[MalFet]

Welcome

Your terminology is a bit confusing here...

"Priming" is adding sugar right before bottling. This gives the yeast a small amount of additional sugar to process, which leads to carbonation when the CO2 they produce is trapped under pressure inside a capped bottle. When you say you used 1kg for priming and saved .25kg for bottling, I am not sure what you mean. In any case, .25kg is a lot of sugar to use for bottling, and 1kg is an extreme amount. Both will likely cause significant over-carbonation and possibly exploding bottles.

In a recipe, simple sugar is sometimes used as a cheap alternative to DME/LME. In that case, using corn sugar rather than malt extract is usually undesirable, though there are a few styles that can benefit. For priming the beer immediately before bottling, corn sugar is perfectly acceptable.

Post your whole recipe if you'd like. Something is fishy here.

 

[boo boo]

Hello everyone,
I just started my very first brew today and have lots to learn but I am starting to do as much research as I can but any input would be appreciated also.
My first batch today was a Brew Canada 1.9kg Blonde Ale extract beer kit. I used 1kg of corn sugar for priming with 23l water and saved .25kg for bottling. Since it is my first time I just wanted to keep it simple and learn the basics. I have been reading though that the corn sugar should be replaced by DME or LME for better results. Is this true?

Thanks!

Your beer might end up being a bit dry and if you like it that way then there is nothing wrong with it.
However if you like craft beer and real beer in general, than substituting the sugar used for fermentation with non-hopped malt extract and perhaps adding a little extra hops to the recipe would lend a better tasting beer as well as steeping of some speciality grains. Of course all depending on what you want out of your kit.
You have available to you a better kit to practise sanitation and fermentation methods called Festa Brew. It is an all wort ( 23 liters ) kit where all you need do is to pour in your fermenter and aerate the wort and then pitch your prepared yeast solution. These kits do make excellent beer with little investment in equipment and time and allows you to get a grasp on the brewing part of our obsession.

Cheers and welcome.

 

[abrdnck]

Welcome from a fellow Albertan!

Those Brew Canada kits are simple and cheap, which makes them attractive to a new brewer. The quality of the beer is not particularly great, but you will end up with beer in the end and you can proudly say "I made this" when you drink it and share it with others. The biggest problem with the kits is the addition of 1 kg of sugar - it will boost the alcohol, but not add much flavour. Corn sugar will ferment completely but won't add any body to the beer. The beers in those kits tend to lack body and flavour. Using DME may help some, but the beer is what it is. If you are used to drinking mass-market lagers like Coors Light, then you will probably enjoy your beer for what it is. If you were hoping for a double IPA or an Imperial Stout, you will find it disappointing.

There are a couple of options for simple kit brewing here in Canada. Festa Brew makes kits that have 23L of pre-made wort and a packet of yeast. Pour the wort into a sanitized fermenter, add the yeast and let it do it's magic. It is a very simple way to brew, and the quality of the beer is very good.

There is another kit out there called Brew House. They have 15L of acidic wort, to which you add in a powder that balances the pH and 8L of water, then pitch the yeast. It seems trickier, but it really isn't. BH kits are also very hackable. For instance, they have an IPA kit that I have heard is pretty good. If you wanted to make it into a more substantial American-style IPA, you could just add 4L of water to the wort and dry hop with Cascade. Use Safale US-05 instead of the yeast that comes with the package. Or, you could steep some Carafa III in with the added water and make a black IPA. Options are there. Their website has a recipe for making a Duvel clone (I made it last summer, and it is very good), and I am currently attempting a Saison from a hacked cream ale kit.

The best advice I can think of, other than watch your sanitation, is to ignore the instructions that came with the kit. You don't need a secondary fermentation, and don't follow a timeline (let the hydrometer tell you when fermentation is done). Even then, give it a few weeks on the yeast cake before you bottle. Then give it at least 3 weeks in the bottle before you crack one open. Let your bottles condition in a warm place, but put them in the fridge a good couple of days before drinking to let the yeast settle out of suspension. You will probably find that the best beer of the bunch is the last one.

Finally, beer done right takes time. Consider getting a second fermenter to fill the pipeline.

This website has a wealth of information, and use it as you advance along in your new hobby.

 

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Welcome from a fellow Albertan!

Those Brew Canada kits are simple and cheap, which makes them attractive to a new brewer. The quality of the beer is not particularly great, but you will end up with beer in the end and you can proudly say "I made this" when you drink it and share it with others. The biggest problem with the kits is the addition of 1 kg of sugar - it will boost the alcohol, but not add much flavour. Corn sugar will ferment completely but won't add any body to the beer. The beers in those kits tend to lack body and flavour. Using DME may help some, but the beer is what it is. If you are used to drinking mass-market lagers like Coors Light, then you will probably enjoy your beer for what it is. If you were hoping for a double IPA or an Imperial Stout, you will find it disappointing.

There are a couple of options for simple kit brewing here in Canada. Festa Brew makes kits that have 23L of pre-made wort and a packet of yeast. Pour the wort into a sanitized fermenter, add the yeast and let it do it's magic. It is a very simple way to brew, and the quality of the beer is very good.

There is another kit out there called Brew House. They have 15L of acidic wort, to which you add in a powder that balances the pH and 8L of water, then pitch the yeast. It seems trickier, but it really isn't. BH kits are also very hackable. For instance, they have an IPA kit that I have heard is pretty good. If you wanted to make it into a more substantial American-style IPA, you could just add 4L of water to the wort and dry hop with Cascade. Use Safale US-05 instead of the yeast that comes with the package. Or, you could steep some Carafa III in with the added water and make a black IPA. Options are there. Their website has a recipe for making a Duvel clone (I made it last summer, and it is very good), and I am currently attempting a Saison from a hacked cream ale kit.

The best advice I can think of, other than watch your sanitation, is to ignore the instructions that came with the kit. You don't need a secondary fermentation, and don't follow a timeline (let the hydrometer tell you when fermentation is done). Even then, give it a few weeks on the yeast cake before you bottle. Then give it at least 3 weeks in the bottle before you crack one open. Let your bottles condition in a warm place, but put them in the fridge a good couple of days before drinking to let the yeast settle out of suspension. You will probably find that the best beer of the bunch is the last one.

Finally, beer done right takes time. Consider getting a second fermenter to fill the pipeline.

This website has a wealth of information, and use it as you advance along in your new hobby.

Thanks for the abundance of information! I am very catreful with my sanitation so I do not think I should have any problems with that. The local wine/beer store that I purchased my kit at actually gave me their own guideline which I was planning on following but now It sounds like you guys have a better idea. here is the guide I was given in a nutshell:

Once Fermentation starts it says on Day 3 or 4 with a s.g. target of 1.015 or less to transfer from the primary to my carboy and top it up with warm water to within 3 inches from the top and place airlock on.

Day 11- 2nd racking- s.g. around 1.008 or less
The guide says to siphon into a carboy at this time which doesnt make sense because it is already in the carboy and I do not have 2 of them and was told I only need one. And then once again top up with warm water to within 2 inches from the top and place airlock on. The second racking is for clearing purposes it says.

Day 17- Bottling- 1 1/4 cups corn sugar added to 1 cup warm water on stove. then stir into beer in your primary. Fill bottles, Store at room temperature for 2 weeks then to a cool area and enjoy!

So I imagine there are many adjustments to this that should be made? I am only just over 24 hours into fermentation so It is the perfect time to change plans if needed.

Welcome

Your terminology is a bit confusing here...

"Priming" is adding sugar right before bottling. This gives the yeast a small amount of additional sugar to process, which leads to carbonation when the CO2 they produce is trapped under pressure inside a capped bottle. When you say you used 1kg for priming and saved .25kg for bottling, I am not sure what you mean. In any case, .25kg is a lot of sugar to use for bottling, and 1kg is an extreme amount. Both will likely cause significant over-carbonation and possibly exploding bottles.

In a recipe, simple sugar is sometimes used as a cheap alternative to DME/LME. In that case, using corn sugar rather than malt extract is usually undesirable, though there are a few styles that can benefit. For priming the beer immediately before bottling, corn sugar is perfectly acceptable.

Post your whole recipe if you'd like. Something is fishy here.

Sorry about the mess up on the terminology, like I said I am brand new to this and am trying to do some research. The 1kg of corn sugar was not for priming it is what I put into the beer kit which is an all wort kit which makes 23 liters. So basically all my recipe consists of is the all wort kit, corn sugar, and the yeast that was provided.

 

[abrdnck]

You don't really need to do a secondary fermentation with that kit. Secondaries are really only needed if you are doing long aging, or if you are dry hopping (and some would even disagree with that). In general, your beer tastes better if you let it sit on the yeast cake (which will not happen when you rack to a secondary). The yeast will clean up the off-flavours produced during fermentation. Even after fermentation is complete, you want to leave the beer on the yeast cake. Most people here will recommend leaving a beer in the primary for 3-4 weeks or more.

I can't think of any reason at all to do a "second racking". Seems like a complete waste of time, since the whole purpose of the secondary is to clear the beer. Keep in mind it will clear up just fine in a primary.

The main disadvantages of using a secondary are:
1. Separates the beer from most of the yeast, which could affect fermentation.
2. Risk of introducing infection.
3. Every time you rack, you lose some of your beer.
4. More work.

The other problem with your guidelines are that they are time/SG dependent. Your fermentation is complete when the hydrometer reading is unchanged for 3 days. That is the most important rule. Not after x number of days, or when the hydrometer reading hits y value. There are many factors which influence speed of fermentation, and specific gravity. Depending on arbitrary values on either of those will eventually come back to haunt you.

Finally, invest in a bottling bucket as it will make your life easier. It only needs to be a large enough food-grade bucket with a spigot (which you can pick up easily enough at a Home Depot). Revvy has a really good bottling thread on here somewhere (the search feature is your friend) which goes through the details better than I could.

In summary:

1. Forget the secondary fermenter for this batch
2. Try your best to forget about your brewing beer for 3 weeks
3. Verify that fermentation is done by taking a hydrometer reading, and then another one 3 days later - if they match, you are golden!
4. Pour your sugar water into a sanitized bottling bucket, rack your beer onto it, then bottle away.
5. Wait at least 3 weeks then try one. If it tastes good, feel free to drink some more. If it doesn't, ignore for at least 2 weeks and try again. Repeat as necessary.
6. Keep in mind that you need to have another batch going to keep beer in the pipeline. Don't be afraid to experiment!

I hope that helps.

 

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Thanks a lot that was very helpful. My concern now is I have it in the plastic conbtainer that came with the kit and it has a lid but I have it loosely laying on top so the pressure does not build up. Since you are telling me to not rack it for a secondary fermentation then it will stay in this container. Isn't it a problem that oxygen will be getting in? Should I maybe drill a hole in the top of the lid and put a rubber gromet in and place the airlock in it? Or should I rack it right now into my carboy quickly before there is a large build up of yeast on the bottom that I would lose?

So basically you are saying to keep it in the primary for 3 weeks then after that take a reading everyday and once it is consistant for 3 days to bottle it?

 

[boo boo]

Thanks a lot that was very helpful. My concern now is I have it in the plastic conbtainer that came with the kit and it has a lid but I have it loosely laying on top so the pressure does not build up. Since you are telling me to not rack it for a secondary fermentation then it will stay in this container. Isn't it a problem that oxygen will be getting in? Should I maybe drill a hole in the top of the lid and put a rubber gromet in and place the airlock in it?QUOTE]

Seeing you don't have it pre drilled for an airlock, wait until it has stopped fermenting, and make sure it really is stopped fermenting, ( try not to keep opening the pail lid to peek, but just leave it cracked enough to let the CO2 escape ), then rack to your sanitized carboy with your priming solution and bottle. Then either use the carboy as a primary or drill the pail top for an airlock so you can ferment with less risk of letting nasty airbourne things into your brew.
Don't follow the advise to top up with water. There is a layer of CO2 on top of the beer which protects it as long as the beer is still producing CO2. Adding water only dilutes it and could possibly introduce unwanted micro organisims into the beer.
Also if you can do it without letting anything into the beer now, then yes drill the hole in the cover now for the airlock.

 

[SDMBREW]

Welcome!

 

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Seeing you don't have it pre drilled for an airlock, wait until it has stopped fermenting, and make sure it really is stopped fermenting, ( try not to keep opening the pail lid to peek, but just leave it cracked enough to let the CO2 escape ), then rack to your sanitized carboy with your priming solution and bottle. Then either use the carboy as a primary or drill the pail top for an airlock so you can ferment with less risk of letting nasty airbourne things into your brew.
Don't follow the advise to top up with water. There is a layer of CO2 on top of the beer which protects it as long as the beer is still producing CO2. Adding water only dilutes it and could possibly introduce unwanted micro organisims into the beer.
Also if you can do it without letting anything into the beer now, then yes drill the hole in the cover now for the airlock.

I think I am going to pick up another bucket so I will just drill the lid provided with that one and sanitize it and replace the other one with the airlocked lid to be on the safe side.
Another question now. I am doing some research on it right now but a second opinion is always good to have. I am planning on buying a kegerator conversion kit with 2 5gallon kegs. I would like to have it ready for my first batch. I might be getting a bit ahead of myself but I think it is better then bottles. So is it correct that you need a lesser amount of priming sugar for a keg then bottles?

 

[MalFet]

I think I am going to pick up another bucket so I will just drill the lid provided with that one and sanitize it and replace the other one with the airlocked lid to be on the safe side.
Another question now. I am doing some research on it right now but a second opinion is always good to have. I am planning on buying a kegerator conversion kit with 2 5gallon kegs. I would like to have it ready for my first batch. I might be getting a bit ahead of myself but I think it is better then bottles. So is it correct that you need a lesser amount of priming sugar for a keg then bottles?

Is there a particular reason you want to use sugar to carbonate the keg rather than CO2? It does work, and you do indeed need somewhat less sugar, but most people just force carbonate with CO2.

 

[boo boo]

If you omit the sugar to carb with and just force carb with CO2, you'll get less sediment in the keg

 

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Alright I will look into that right now. Using co2 instead sounds like the better way to go. I take it that using co2 will eliminate the resting time that is needed with priming sugars?

 

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Has anyobdy used this kegerator conversion kit before?
http://www.kegcowboy.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=136

 

[MalFet]

Alright I will look into that right now. Using co2 instead sounds like the better way to go. I take it that using co2 will eliminate the resting time that is needed with priming sugars?

There are two things going on: carbonation and aging. Carbonation is significantly faster. It still takes time for the beer to carbonate, but considerably less. Aging, however, isn't any faster. How much time a beer needs before it hits its prime is somewhat subjective and varies from style to style.

 

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Well I just picked up a Brew House American Premium Lager (8 IBU, OG 1.044, Malts: Pale, Flaked rice, Hops: Centennial, 2112 California Lager Liquid yeast). And I have an airlock on my primary now. I Am planning on starting the Brew House kit this weekend because I just did my first brew last Sunday but Im getting itchy and will probably start it today.

 

[hopdawg]

Alot of water under the bridge since your intial hello but let me welcome you anyway. Brewhouse kits are a great way to get your feet wet. We'll be watching for you however a little further on up the road when the all grian bug bites.
HD

 

[ihomebrewing]

Cheers!

 

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Well I just picked up a Brew House American Premium Lager (8 IBU, OG 1.044, Malts: Pale, Flaked rice, Hops: Centennial, 2112 California Lager Liquid yeast).

Alright It has been 48 hours now since I started this Brewhouse kit and there are no signs of fermentation so far. As it shows above I used Wyeast 2112 California Lager. I smacked the pack only about an hour before pitching and it was not inflated but it says on the package you do not have to wait for it to swell. I did not mix the yeast in I pitched it and while I moved the primary to the closet Ide imagine it mixed it in. The temperature currently fluctuates between 18-19*C. The extract kit that I also have going just finished fermenting with the same temperature so I dont see that being the problem. It did take a week to complete fermentation though, is it longer then usual because my low temps or is a week alright?

 

[hopdawg]

Was the yeast and the wort close to the same temp at time of pitching?
48hrs is quite awhile, but I'd give it another 24 before setting your hair on fire.
Your current temps look good.
Are you in a bucket for the primary then moving to a secondary?
I'm personally a fan of no bucket no primary, just 14-21 in the carboy, then into the keg or bottles (or new kegs, ooooowwweee, make sure you clean and sterilize them first). Fermentation will look like its completed in a week but the yeast needs time to clean up for a further week or two.
I have made many beers that are drinkable after 14 days but they are always better after 28, with the exception of hefeweizens, they're best fresh.
HD

 

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Was the yeast and the wort close to the same temp at time of pitching?
48hrs is quite awhile, but I'd give it another 24 before setting your hair on fire.
Your current temps look good.
Are you in a bucket for the primary then moving to a secondary?
I'm personally a fan of no bucket no primary, just 14-21 in the carboy, then into the keg or bottles (or new kegs, ooooowwweee, make sure you clean and sterilize them first). Fermentation will look like its completed in a week but the yeast needs time to clean up for a further week or two.
I have made many beers that are drinkable after 14 days but they are always better after 28, with the exception of hefeweizens, they're best fresh.
HD

The yeast was most likely a little colder then the wort. Is that a big deal? I am in a bucket for my primary and from what I gathered on here I am keeping it in there, I am not racking to a secondary. I will leave it in my primary for 3 weeks or so and then rack to a corny keg to carb and rest.

 

[boo boo]

Alright It has been 48 hours now since I started this Brewhouse kit and there are no signs of fermentation so far. As it shows above I used Wyeast 2112 California Lager. I smacked the pack only about an hour before pitching and it was not inflated but it says on the package you do not have to wait for it to swell. I did not mix the yeast in I pitched it and while I moved the primary to the closet Ide imagine it mixed it in. The temperature currently fluctuates between 18-19*C. The extract kit that I also have going just finished fermenting with the same temperature so I dont see that being the problem. It did take a week to complete fermentation though, is it longer then usual because my low temps or is a week alright?

Using a smack pack without making a starter out of it first will cause a long lag time before you notice signs of fermentation even with normal gravity brews. Coupled with cold pitching temps and you might look at slightly longer starting times.
Have you skimmed the WWW.Howtobrew.com yet?

 

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Using a smack pack without making a starter out of it first will cause a long lag time before you notice signs of fermentation even with normal gravity brews. Coupled with cold pitching temps and you might look at slightly longer starting times.
Have you skimmed the WWW.Howtobrew.com yet?

Oh okay that must be it! At least I know now! Should I get a warming belt do you think since im always around 18-19*C?
No I have not skimmed over that but I will right now. Thanks.

Should I not have an airlock on until fermentation starts? I know its a long shot but could it be there is not enough oxygen? I just cracked the lid a bit to try it out. My other brew which fermented fairly quickly never had an airlock for the first couple days of fermentation.

 

[boo boo]

No, I never use a belt even when doing ales in my basement at 62f ambient temps.
I put on my airlock when I put the wort into my primary.
Making sure you aerate/oxygenate your wort before pitching your yeast will go a long way to make sure you have a successful ferment.

 

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Well yesterday was a week since I pitched and there has been very little action so I said screw it and threw in a pack of coopers dry yeast it was all I had. I'm assuming the wyeast pack must of been old.

 

[MalFet]

Well yesterday was a week since I pitched and there has been very little action so I said screw it and threw in a pack of coopers dry yeast it was all I had. I'm assuming the wyeast pack must of been old.

Did you take a gravity reading first?

 

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Did you take a gravity reading first?

I did when I pitched the first time. It was 1.045 but when I pitched the dry yeast yesterday I never but I really should of just to make sure it wasn't already fermented but I really see no way of it because there has been almost little to no action.

 

[MalFet]

I did when I pitched the first time. It was 1.045 but when I pitched the dry yeast yesterday I never but I really should of just to make sure it wasn't already fermented but I really see no way of it because there has been almost little to no action.

Airlock bubbles and krausen is a pretty poor indicator of what is happening. No harm in more yeast, but they might not find anything to eats.

 

[dmax_silvia_s13]

Airlock bubbles and krausen is a pretty poor indicator of what is happening. No harm in more yeast, but they might not find anything to eats.

Well thanks thats good to know! But there is much more action finally now that I pitched the dry yeast so I believe the wyeast must have been old!