New to all grain numbers question pt2

[Methose]

So I'm still getting comfortable with my equipment, as well as AG brewing in general, but here we go:
I brewed this Wake n Bake Clone
and used a Double Infusion, where beersmith calculated my volumes as follows:

1. Protein Rest Add 17.31 qt of water at 132.1 F 122.0 F 30 min
2. Saccharification Add 15.38 qt of water at 202.0 F 156.0 F 30 min
3. Mash Out Add 11.54 qt of water at 205.6 F 168.0 F 10 min
4. Fly sparge with -1.98 gal water at 168.0 F

I didn't even get to the fly sparging and I ran out about 1.5 - 2 gallons of extra wort. I had to get a second pot and boil it all down, to fit in my one 7.5 gal turkey fryer. Once I did, I hit my OG spot on at 1088 in 5 gal, but I tell you that was a royal PITA and took all day into the night.

Any idea waht went wrong and how to adjust for next time?

 

[LovesIPA]

I don't think a protein rest is necessary with that grain bill. Some people do a mash out but I don't. It would benefit a stout more than a less malt-forward beer, but I don't do it even when I brew stouts or other dark beers.

So for me it would just be a two-step mash. Mash at 156 with 1.25 qts/lb water and then fly sparge with whatever I need to get between 7.4 and 7.5 gallons.

 

[duboman]

What went wrong is you used a process that required larger equipment than you have

A two step mash would have been perfectly fine as lovesIPA stated and you would have used a lot less water!

Based upon your equipment I would try and do a recipe that allows for a simpler single infusion mash so you can get used to what your equipment can handle and the process.

Try using this calculator next time: http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

 

[Methose]

What went wrong is you used a process that required larger equipment than you have

A two step mash would have been perfectly fine as lovesIPA stated and you would have used a lot less water!

Based upon your equipment I would try and do a recipe that allows for a simpler single infusion mash so you can get used to what your equipment can handle and the process.

Try using this calculator next time: http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

So I had plenty of room in the mash tun, it was the hours of boiling that I wasn't excited about. It seems like a larger kettle wouldn't really have helped too much, because it was the amount of wort I had to bring down to a 5 gallon batch size was way high. I actually had a 15 gallon pot and a 7.5, but then end volume still needs to be 5.
I think the equipment and mash profile settings in beersmith have been the most confusing so far, probably due to my lack of experience with AG brewing in general.

 

[duboman]

So I had plenty of room in the mash tun, it was the hours of boiling that I wasn't excited about. It seems like a larger kettle wouldn't really have helped too much, because it was the amount of wort I had to bring down to a 5 gallon batch size was way high. I actually had a 15 gallon pot and a 7.5, but then end volume still needs to be 5.
I think the equipment and mash profile settings in beersmith have been the most confusing so far, probably due to my lack of experience with AG brewing in general.

So are you using a propane burner or trying to do a full boil on your stove? If the latter you are going to have a tough time getting a boil or a good rolling boil and will either need to add a heating element to the kettle or go outdoors with propane.

Beersmith is all about your equipment profile and proper set up as all calculations are based upon this profile. The important numbers pertain to making sure your losses are accounted for properly from the tun to the kettle. Or you can keep your losses at zero and set your batch size to account for the losses as a mental note.

The brewing software forum has a lot of info on these two types of settings and the pros and cons of each-look for posts by cwi.

The easiest way to get a handle on losses is to add plain water in a fixed, measured amount to your tun and drain it. See and measure what is left. For boil off, boil a fixed amount of water for 60 minutes and measure you boil off amount and then drain your kettle and measure what is left. These are the numbers you put into the profile. It may take a few batches to dial in your averages.

Good luck!

 

[Methose]

So are you using a propane burner or trying to do a full boil on your stove?

The brewing software forum has a lot of info on these two types of settings and the pros and cons of each-look for posts by cwi.

The easiest way to get a handle on losses is to add plain water in a fixed, measured amount to your tun and drain it. See and measure what is left.

Good luck!

Propane burner / turkey fryer.

I assume that you mean adding plain water to a grain bed, right?
In general measuring how much I put in versus how much I get out -sometime when I'm brewing?

 

[acidrain]

Once the grain is wet, it doesn't get any wetter.
When you sparge, you will get out exactly what you put in. I've noticed that Beersmith tells me to sparge too much. After my first running, I just calculate what I need to make up my pre-boil volume (you need to know your boil-off rate) and use that as my total sparge volume.

 

[Methose]

So what advantage is there to not sparging, and putting the entire pre-boil volume in the mash tun?

 

[duboman]

So what advantage is there to not sparging, and putting the entire pre-boil volume in the mash tun?

There are actually no advantages to No sparge brewing as your efficiency will decrease unless you dramatically increase your grain bill

Your efficiency drops because you are no longer rinsing all the sugars during the sparge process

 

[Methose]

There are actually no advantages to No sparge brewing as your efficiency will decrease unless you dramatically increase your grain bill

Your efficiency drops because you are no longer rinsing all the sugars during the sparge process

Alright, so I'll be going back to sparging thanks!