New Brewer Yeast Mistake

[Satokad]

Good Morning Folks,

Learning lots in this forum....which makes me realize how much I don't know.
I received a Northern Brewer Chinook IPA Starter Kit for Christmas last December. Work was crazy so I never got around to breaking it out until 2 weeks ago. The brew went fine, and I got bubbles in the airlock in less than 24 hours, but they stopped after 5 days.
I just read that I was supposed to take the yeast and refrigerate it when I got the package. That never happened.
I had some activity so I know it wasn't a complete bust, but will the yeast sitting out of refrigeration for 9 months have a dramatic effect on the finished product? It was the dry Safale 05.
Thanks.

 

[Dland]

Safale 05 should be fine after 9 months, as long as it was stored at a reasonable temperature. I have used 05 that was 6 months past its expiration and it worked fine.

 

[spanosspanos]

I've only used a few different kinds of yeast in my home brewing journey so far...but probably have used US-05 the most...and it's seems to be quite the work horse... 5 days sounds just about right to see a major reduction in activity. I'd say give it another 5 days, and then take a gravity reading to check on the attenuation before deciding to rack and package.. I'll bet you'll be on the mark and drinking a fresh beer in no time! [emoji482]

 

[spanosspanos]

Oh, and next time...put in the freezer ;-)

ps- on your next brew date just be sure to take it out of the freezer several hours before pitching...

 

[Satokad]

I've only used a few different kinds of yeast in my home brewing journey so far...but probably have used US-05 the most...and it's seems to be quite the work horse... 5 days sounds just about right to see a major reduction in activity. I'd say give it another 5 days, and then take a gravity reading to check on the attenuation before deciding to rack and package.. I'll bet you'll be on the mark and drinking a fresh beer in no time! [emoji482]

Thanks. The two week first fermentation ends Thursday. It's supposed to go a while longer with a dry hop 1 week before bottling. The Brewer Hotline dude from Northern Brewer said that he goes two weeks, adds the hops into the pale, goes one more week and bottles. I am most likely going to transfer it to a second fermenter (a Big Mouth Bubbler) and let it go for at least two more weeks. Brewing instructions said the second ferment can go 2 - 4 weeks. I'd like to drink it ASAP but the thought of a clearer, tastier beer sounds even better (assuming I didn't mess anything up).
On a side note, I got bit by the bug bad. Already bought a 2 gallon fermenter bucket to do small batches. Have some grains and a Barley Crusher that arrives Thursday (same day as the 2nd ferment starts). I'm already having more fun than human beings should be allowed to have.

 

[Smellyglove]

Sorry off topic but I must ask, I don't live in the states. "The brewer Hotline"? Is it some number you can dial to just like 911 to get some tips on how to brew beers/kits from NB?

 

[kh54s10]

You don't really even need to do a secondary even when dry hopping. I add then (in a 1 gallon paint strainer per ounce) directly in the primary. I would not go longer than 7 days on the dry hop. You will get everything out of the hops by then and any longer you will start to lose hop presence.

So although the beer might get a tiny bit more clear by doing a secondary, any long secondary, or extended dry hop will not give you a tastier beer.

 

[kh54s10]

They have a chat link on their website. It pops up on the right side of my screen.

 

[Satokad]

They have a chat link on their website. It pops up on the right side of my screen.

I have used the phone and the Online Chat. Both worked fine. It is limited more or less to questions regarding what they sell, but they have answered some general questions on the subject.

 

[Satokad]

You don't really even need to do a secondary even when dry hopping. I add then (in a 1 gallon paint strainer per ounce) directly in the primary. I would not go longer than 7 days on the dry hop. You will get everything out of the hops by then and any longer you will start to lose hop presence.

So although the beer might get a tiny bit more clear by doing a secondary, any long secondary, or extended dry hop will not give you a tastier beer.

I was going to hold off on the dry hopping until one week before bottling day. This is a 5 Gallon batch. I've heard very committed comments on both sides of the fence regarding the positives and negatives of a second fermentation. If it's not going to make a noticeable difference, maybe I'll just skip it this first time out. I was going to put the last hops into a mesh sleeve to reduce the particles....unless that's a waste of time and effort, too. They are pellets.
Thanks.

 

[kh54s10]

I don't know what other sites you visit. There is a facebook group that is decidedly less informed than HBTers. I think you will find here a predominance of opinion that secondary is a waste of time and possible source of infection or oxidation.

I bag my hops so that I don't get as deep a layer of trub. I get a little more beer and it is easier to siphon without getting much debris in the bottling bucket.

 

[spanosspanos]

I don't know what other sites you visit. There is a facebook group that is decidedly less informed than HBTers. I think you will find here a predominance of opinion that secondary is a waste of time and possible source of infection or oxidation.

I bag my hops so that I don't get as deep a layer of trub. I get a little more beer and it is easier to siphon without getting much debris in the bottling bucket.

I moved to secondary on my first 2 brews, and since then I've just stuck it out in primary and the beers have all been great (I must say ;-). I'm becoming a freak about a super clean process, and I believed in the notion that reducing the risk of contamination is super important to a successful brew. If your gonna dry-hop in a bag...make sure you remember to SANITIZE IT! [emoji482]

 

[Satokad]

I moved to secondary on my first 2 brews, and since then I've just stuck it out in primary and the beers have all been great (I must say ;-). I'm becoming a freak about a super clean process, and I believed in the notion that reducing the risk of contamination is super important to a successful brew. If your gonna dry-hop in a bag...make sure you remember to SANITIZE IT! [emoji482]

What's the longest amount of time you've kept the wort in contact with the trub? Would five weeks be too long?

 

[Jayjay1976]

If my fermentation doesn't kick off after 24 hours, I chase my cat up a tree and call 911. Usually at least one of the responders is also a homebrewer.

 

[Satokad]

I don't know what other sites you visit. There is a facebook group that is decidedly less informed than HBTers. I think you will find here a predominance of opinion that secondary is a waste of time and possible source of infection or oxidation.

I bag my hops so that I don't get as deep a layer of trub. I get a little more beer and it is easier to siphon without getting much debris in the bottling bucket.

I looked at the FB group (one of them, anyway). I like the information I've found here, and I'm still finding new stuff with every click.

Here's a thought. Is there any reason I couldn't let the wort sit for a few days in the bottling bucket before I prime it, or are they less airtight?
Thanks.

 

[tellyho]

I think you'll find most of the consensus in recent years is that transferring beer is mostly unnecessary.

 

[tellyho]

Pop your dry hops into primary and move it to the bottling bucket when you bottle.

 

[eadavis80]

Next time keep your dry yeast in the refrigerator. Hops should stay frozen for long term storage but yeast should be in the fridge. Figure out for yourself - using your own experience - if secondary is worth it to you. You'll get people who have varied answers on here. Experiment for yourself and do what you think works best.

 

[kh54s10]

I looked at the FB group (one of them, anyway). I like the information I've found here, and I'm still finding new stuff with every click.

Here's a thought. Is there any reason I couldn't let the wort sit for a few days in the bottling bucket before I prime it, or are they less airtight?
Thanks.

My question to that is why? If you are wanting to let it settle, a couple of hours should be plenty. If your beer is already clear and you don't suck up any trub transferring to the bottling bucket I wouldn't wait at all. I add the priming sugar to the wort as it is swirling into the bucket. I don't wait at all. Not being air tight is not the problem. Unless you purge the bucket with co2 there is plenty of air there already. And air is your enemy. So don't leave it there. What little oxygen that gets into the beer during bottling mostly gets used up by the yeast producing the carbonation.

 

[spanosspanos]

What's the longest amount of time you've kept the wort in contact with the trub? Would five weeks be too long?

I've let an IPA and a porter sit on primary for about 5 weeks.. I dry-hopped the IPA; and for the porter I added Scotch soaked toasted oak cubes. Both beers went through an initial 14 day fermentation before the additions..the porter conditioning time was intentional. Admittedly though, I was crazy busy while the IPA was dry-hopping, and it lasted way longer than intended. That said however, after about 4 weeks of bottle conditioning the IPA tasted very good (most importantly, no off flavors...). As it happens, the porter even won a couple of ribbons... Those experiences have relaxed me a bit about worrying too much about letting a beer sit in primary for too long, and shifted my focus to reducing risk of contamination whenever and wherever possible...

 

[Jayjay1976]

I primary everything for 5-6 weeks and then cold crash with gelatin when I want a really clear result. I've only transferred to secondary one time, onto knob creek-soaked oak cubes for a stout but it did come out really clear without crashing or gelatin. The right answer is that there are several 'right' ways to go about it.

 

[Satokad]

My question to that is why? If you are wanting to let it settle, a couple of hours should be plenty. If your beer is already clear and you don't suck up any trub transferring to the bottling bucket I wouldn't wait at all. I add the priming sugar to the wort as it is swirling into the bucket. I don't wait at all. Not being air tight is not the problem. Unless you purge the bucket with co2 there is plenty of air there already. And air is your enemy. So don't leave it there. What little oxygen that gets into the beer during bottling mostly gets used up by the yeast producing the carbonation.

The "why" is mostly because I'm learning and looking at different things, all of which have already been considered, I'm sure. My reasoning would be to get the perceived advantage of moving to a secondary fermentation tank and then being able to bottle right from that. I didn't know if it was a possibility, or even a good idea. Just thinking out loud, I suppose.
Do you add the sugar directly into the wort or do you mix it with water first? I like the idea of adding it while the wort is flowing into the bucket.
Thanks.

 

[Satokad]

I've let an IPA and a porter sit on primary for about 5 weeks.. I dry-hopped the IPA; and for the porter I added Scotch soaked toasted oak cubes. Both beers went through an initial 14 day fermentation before the additions..the porter conditioning time was intentional. Admittedly though, I was crazy busy while the IPA was dry-hopping, and it lasted way longer than intended. That said however, after about 4 weeks of bottle conditioning the IPA tasted very good (most importantly, no off flavors...). As it happens, the porter even won a couple of ribbons... Those experiences have relaxed me a bit about worrying too much about letting a beer sit in primary for too long, and shifted my focus to reducing risk of contamination whenever and wherever possible...

Thanks. This makes me feel easier. Guess I'll just relax and see how this all turns out.

 

[kh54s10]

Do you add the sugar directly into the wort or do you mix it with water first? I like the idea of adding it while the wort is flowing into the bucket.
Thanks.

I use this calculator to determine how much sugar: https://www.northernbrewer.com/pages/priming-sugar-calculator I then mix corn sugar in about 2 cups of water, bring it to a boil then add it to the bucket with the siphon already started. I make sure the siphon hose is coiled around the side so there is a vortex that will mix in the sugar solution.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Sorry off topic but I must ask, I don't live in the states. "The brewer Hotline"? Is it some number you can dial to just like 911 to get some tips on how to brew beers/kits from NB?

Yep, it's pretty cool. I don't buy from them anymore due to the AB-InBev thing, but they provide great service.

 

[balrog]

I would not leave siphoned beer in bottling bucket a few days. If everything was sanitized, if nothing got on hoses, lids, if nothing floated into bucket during siphoning, you'd be fine but that's just too many ifs in my book. When you're ready to bottle, siphon prime and bottle. I've added the boiling priming solution before siphoning, during siphoning and in the event I forgot, after siphoning to the bottling bucket. It did not affect the outcome appreciably to my limited ability to tell.

 

[spanosspanos]

The "why" is mostly because I'm learning and looking at different things, all of which have already been considered, I'm sure. My reasoning would be to get the perceived advantage of moving to a secondary fermentation tank and then being able to bottle right from that. I didn't know if it was a possibility, or even a good idea. Just thinking out loud, I suppose.
Do you add the sugar directly into the wort or do you mix it with water first? I like the idea of adding it while the wort is flowing into the bucket.
Thanks.

I pour the priming solution into the bottling bucket first, and then rack the beer into it... That way I feel it gets thoroughly and evenly mixed without having to stir or otherwise disturb the beer too much..

 

[spanosspanos]

I use this calculator to determine how much sugar: https://www.northernbrewer.com/pages/priming-sugar-calculator I then mix corn sugar in about 2 cups of water, bring it to a boil then add it to the bucket with the siphon already started. I make sure the siphon hose is coiled around the side so there is a vortex that will mix in the sugar solution.

My worry with creating a vortex like that would be the risk of mixing the air in the bucket into the beer as it spins. I imagine it much like a yeast starter on a stir plate.. The constant stirring action mixes oxygen into the starter through the contact of the air in the vessel with the spinning surface of the liquid. I'd be worried of a similar process occurring in the bottling bucket, and unintentionally mixing O2 and other critters into the beer at the last moment before bottling... It's probably something that is highly unlikely to be a problem, but once your mind starts thinking about how much wild yeast and bacteria are floating around all over the place...it's difficult not to become something that very much resembles paranoid!

 

[ncbrewer]

I pour the priming solution into the bottling bucket first, and then rack the beer into it... That way I feel it gets thoroughly and evenly mixed without having to stir or otherwise disturb the beer too much..

Same here. I currently stir gently after racking onto the priming solution just to be sure, but I really don't see a noticeable improvement in the mixing. Racking onto the solution with a swirling action does a pretty good job of mixing.

 

[azmark]

Beer will get a proper secondary in the bottle.

 

[kh54s10]

My worry with creating a vortex like that would be the risk of mixing the air in the bucket into the beer as it spins. I imagine it much like a yeast starter on a stir plate.. The constant stirring action mixes oxygen into the starter through the contact of the air in the vessel with the spinning surface of the liquid. I'd be worried of a similar process occurring in the bottling bucket, and unintentionally mixing O2 and other critters into the beer at the last moment before bottling... It's probably something that is highly unlikely to be a problem, but once your mind starts thinking about how much wild yeast and bacteria are floating around all over the place...it's difficult not to become something

The vortex only swirls, it does not splash. It is not much different than just filling the bucket. IMO, filling then stirring would give more of a chance of oxidation and contamination. I've been doing it that way for 7+ years without issue. At least 60 of my 102 batches got bottled.

 

[spanosspanos]

The vortex only swirls, it does not splash. It is not much different than just filling the bucket. IMO, filling then stirring would give more of a chance of oxidation and contamination. I've been doing it that way for 7+ years without issue. At least 60 of my 102 batches got bottled.

Yeah, I'm sure that I'm overestimating the risk of contamination... Curious though, you bottled about 60 of your 102 brews, does that mean that you've kegged most of the rest? ...or did you have to dump them..?

 

[kh54s10]

Yeah, I'm sure that I'm overestimating the risk of contamination... Curious though, you bottled about 60 of your 102 brews, does that mean that you've kegged most of the rest? ...or did you have to dump them..?

Kegged, but I have moved and the kegging stuff is in storage!

I have only dumped 2 1/2 batches. One was an experiment for a very high alcohol content beer. It ended up extremely sweet even after trying champagne yeast. I used 1/2 of it for cooking. Another was a 3 gallon batch, I don't know what went wrong with that one. After a couple of month it looked like pea soup. I couldn't get over the look and never even tasted it. The last one was neglected while preparing for my move. It was in primary for almost a year and I decided to dump it rather that transporting it in bottles, or even taking the time to bottle it.

 

[spanosspanos]

Kegged, but I have moved and the kegging stuff is in storage!

I have only dumped 2 1/2 batches. One was an experiment for a very high alcohol content beer. It ended up extremely sweet even after trying champagne yeast. I used 1/2 of it for cooking. Another was a 3 gallon batch, I don't know what went wrong with that one. After a couple of month it looked like pea soup. I couldn't get over the look and never even tasted it. The last one was neglected while preparing for my move. It was in primary for almost a year and I decided to dump it rather that transporting it in bottles, or even taking the time to bottle it.

Haha! Pea soup...yuck!! How'd you use the high alcohol for cooking...marinades? I think I would have been too curious to find out what a year old primary would taste like ;-)
I'm eager to start kegging, I still haven't made the jump and investment though... But every time I bottle up a batch...I get one BIG step closer!

 

[kh54s10]

Haha! Pea soup...yuck!! How'd you use the high alcohol for cooking...marinades? I think I would have been too curious to find out what a year old primary would taste like ;-)
I'm eager to start kegging, I still haven't made the jump and investment though... But every time I bottle up a batch...I get one BIG step closer!

I used the one for cooking mostly in beer bread. I should have at least tasted the one that sat....

Even when kegging there were beers that got bottled. One was a Russian Imperial Stout. It aged beautifully in bottles. It took six months to mellow out nicely, then almost 2 years before I drank them all.

 

[spanosspanos]

I used the one for cooking mostly in beer bread. I should have at least tasted the one that sat....

Even when kegging there were beers that got bottled. One was a Russian Imperial Stout. It aged beautifully in bottles. It took six months to mellow out nicely, then almost 2 years before I drank them all.

Beer bread?! ...you just found me my next google topic! [emoji481] [emoji506]
...you're a patient person...taking two years to drink those stouts!

 

[kh54s10]

Beer bread?! ...you just found me my next google topic! [emoji481] [emoji506]
...you're a patient person...taking two years to drink those stouts!

They were over 10% ABV so only one a night and not every night. Remember that I only sampled a couple out of 50 bottles before 6 months had passed. And that was after about two months fermenting and bulk aging. So I really only drank them over the period of just over one year.

That, and I had quite a few batches brewed during that time. So I was no where near depriving myself.

 

[bracconiere]

Have some grains and a Barley Crusher that arrives Thursday (same day as the 2nd ferment starts). I'm already having more fun than human beings should be allowed to have.

this is an epic thread! couldn't even finish it without getting tired. But had to chime in on this, and having more fun than allowed. It's like hebrew national, "We answer to a higher power!"

 

[Satokad]

this is an epic thread! couldn't even finish it without getting tired. But had to chime in on this, and having more fun than allowed. It's like hebrew national, "We answer to a higher power!"

Unfortunately, Amazon let me down a little. It's not a Barley Crusher but a clone that looks very similar. An Evill Twin from The Vintage Shop. Amazon listed it as Barley Crusher with Northern Brewer as the seller, but did some hocus pocus and switched it up. It has very mixed reviews (some of which are 1s just because it wasn't as advertised). Going to crush some grains today for a 1 Gallon brew and see how it goes.

 

[kh54s10]

Unfortunately, Amazon let me down a little. It's not a Barley Crusher but a clone that looks very similar. An Evill Twin from The Vintage Shop. Amazon listed it as Barley Crusher with Northern Brewer as the seller, but did some hocus pocus and switched it up. It has very mixed reviews (some of which are 1s just because it wasn't as advertised). Going to crush some grains today for a 1 Gallon brew and see how it goes.

Return it and buy a Cereal Killer from either Adventures in Homebrewing or Austin Homebrew supply. They probably did you a favor, more and more are reporting that the Barley Crusher is junk. There is supposed to be a lifetime warranty, but getting it serviced has been a big problem for most.