New BIAGer! Hello and a quick question.

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Murphy2012

Murphy2012

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Good Day All,

After 6 years of Extract Brewing, I have finally decided to make the plunge into AG Brewing via BIAB due to having my own home, brewery/bar space, and a loving fiancee who shares the same love of beer, and making it with me. I am also lucky enough to have a Garland Industrial 6 Burner Range in my kitchen :D and have been brewing on that since moving in in Jan. of this year with my own Extract Kits with good results. I just ordered a Bayou Classic 1040 to replace my old Aluminum Turkey Fryer Pot that I've used all these years, ordered a wilserbrewer package, and even splurged on a SS Brewtech Brewbucket (mostly for the bling in my brewery/bar area, and, it's sweet) but still have many plastic buckets.

I am contemplating starting with some 3 Gallon batches, and I'd like to create my own recipes on Brewer's Friend which I have slowly started creating. I'd like to make a version of my extract Citra IPA and also my Big Bodied Birthday Blonde (she sounds sexy, doesn't she?).

What is a good efficiency to start with to help in my calculations? BF tells me to plan between 50-65% for my first batch (until I find true efficiency) but I feel/like to think that I will be more efficient than that. If you all say use that range, I'll do it, you know better than me. I am easily swayed by much more experienced people of the craft we all love so much.

I also have a water report from when I purchased the house, but do not have Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfate, and Alkalinity, are these easily attainable through some test kits I can purchase? I haven't searched much on the water subject so please excuse my ignorance if a thread is right in front of me.

That's all for now. I'll be sure to post pics and outcome of the first brew. Thanks for the help and I look forward to being a bigger part of this forum!


-Murph :mug:
 
Murphy2012 said:
I also have a water report from when I purchased the house, but do not have Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfate, and Alkalinity, are these easily attainable through some test kits I can purchase? I haven't searched much on the water subject so please excuse my ignorance if a thread is right in front of me.
Click to expand...

Google "Ward's Laboratories". It's a mail in water sample that a lot of folks here swear by.

https://producers.wardlab.com/default.aspx?ReturnUrl=/

Welcome to the dark side!! :mug:
 
I calculate everything at 70% and 6 gallon batch size.

I get about 5.5 in the fermenter and hit my numbers dead on. I do my water calculations at biabcalculator.com (i dont like the brewers friend one).

I also squeeze my bag!
 
I use a corona style mill to get a fine, but not flour(!), grind.
Using Brewers Friend also, I seem to get about 80% efficiency. I mash in at 1.5 - 1.75 qt per pound of grain. I ladle sparge water over the bag until i get my preboil volume.
With a brew store crush, your mileage would likely vary. I'd start around 70% and do a few small-ish batches to see where you come in at.
I start out with a know and reviewed recipe in a style I want to brew and then tweak it from there. I prefer 1 or 3 gallon batches. BF will scale everything easily.
 
I too am a BIAB'er

You will love it.

I would start at 70%. I routinely get 75%+ but it took me a few goes to get there. That is more a reflection on my lack of skills that an accurate critique of your own.

Your indoor setup sounds similar to my own (minus the nice bling bucket). My thread below outlines my approach to a neat clean kitchen and keeping it that way and steps I take to predictably hit my correct volume and SG.

Hope it all goes well. Keep us posted on your results next brew.
 
I guess I'm more of a "damn the torpedoes" type, I would brew 5 gallons, pull a sample of wort when you remove the bag, chill it and check gravity. If low, fire up the Garland and boil down to compensate. If high, you can either make more beer or throw some out...just kidding!

The larger mash will hold temp a bit better as well.

Welcome to the jungle :)
 
I think 70% is a good place to start and you will most likely get better than that very soon.

Brew on!
 
I agree with all who say 70% to start. Do a mash out and a good squeeze if you are low. It will get better from there as you tweak your processes. 50 to 65 is a very low guesstimate. Who crushes your grain?
 
Mirilis said:
I calculate everything at 70% and 6 gallon batch size.

I get about 5.5 in the fermenter and hit my numbers dead on. I do my water calculations at biabcalculator.com (i dont like the brewers friend one).

I also squeeze my bag!
Click to expand...

That sites one of the better ones, but have you seen my calculator on my blog?

Pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc
 
I think I guessed 65% for my first batch, and I ended up with 81%. The first batch is a craps shoot at best. Now, I anticipate 75%, and expect to go over sometimes.

In hindsight, I'd put my first guess at 70-75%, but I would brew something that wouldn't suffer from an overshoot. I also would keep some DME on hand to toss in if I ended way under my target OG. If you make something with a late hop addition, you're not going to want to put it back on the burner, and it's not like extract is foreign to you.
 
Thanks for the great knowledge sharing, everyone. For now I will use 70% as my baseline of efficiency for recipe creation and will adjust it from there.
For now I'll crush my grains at my LHBS as they have a grain mill on site you can use. It's 15 minutes from home so they'll be a fresh grind. I'll plan to crush twice based off of what I've read and what I typically see from my previous usage of it. I'll have a mill setup in my office or bar area by june, hopefully.

I appreciate all of the help again and can't wait to share my results!
 
Murphy2012 said:
Thanks for the great knowledge sharing, everyone. For now I will use 70% as my baseline of efficiency for recipe creation and will adjust it from there.
For now I'll crush my grains at my LHBS as they have a grain mill on site you can use. It's 15 minutes from home so they'll be a fresh grind. I'll plan to crush twice based off of what I've read and what I typically see from my previous usage of it. I'll have a mill setup in my office or bar area by june, hopefully.

I appreciate all of the help again and can't wait to share my results!
Click to expand...

Get them to do a double crush for you if the can. Look forward to hearing/seeing your results
 
Murphy2012 said:
Here goes my first batch! Took about 30 minutes to get 5.5 gallons to 159 degrees. Dough in only lost 2 degrees so I added a couple of cups of cold water, hit 152.5 and wrapped in a jacket! Wish me luck.
Click to expand...


OK good job! Only losing 2 degrees during dough in seems optimistic IME and IMO. When you mix in the grain, it takes several minutes for the temp to equalize, for the grain to heat up and the water to cool down. I have found it best to mix well, let set for several minutes and mix very well again and then check temp. Temps taken immediately after mixing in the grain are artificially or falsely high by a couple / few degrees IME. This causes one to think the mash is too warm, so steps are taken to cool it down....then after 5 minutes the mash is too cool, so measures are taken to heat it up....I like to call this see sawing around the mash temp.... :)

I'm sure your fine for this brew, just a tip moving forward....

wilser

It takes about twice as much mixing and time for the mash temp to stabilize compared to what one would intuitively think in my opinion.
 
You were right! I do blame it on my poor mixing. After waiting 20 minutes and rechecking temperature, I was at 149.5. I mixed it a bit more, stabilized at 152 again and recovered. Lesson #1 of BIAB complete. Thanks!
 
Excellent!
Lesson no 2 IMHO is not to sweat a degree or two, think of the mash as a temp range over a couple few degrees that you will likely lose during the mash.

Well done!
 
Murphy2012 said:
Here goes my first batch! Took about 30 minutes to get 5.5 gallons to 159 degrees. Dough in only lost 2 degrees so I added a couple of cups of cold water, hit 152.5 and wrapped in a jacket! Wish me luck.
Click to expand...

Great Job. Those are some powerful looking burners. I am very envious.
 
Gavin C said:
Those are some powerful looking burners.
Click to expand...

Haha, yes. Reminds me of the commercial stove at my hunting / card playing / drinking /good ole boys club cabin. I can boil 19 gallons to make a a 1/2 keg batch.

Takes a little while, but not a problem.....at all. The boys love it!
 
Well, thanks for the compliments on the stove top, I am a lucky guy! My jaw literally hit the floor the moment I walked into the kitchen when checking out the house. Being someone who spent 7 or so years as a cook and now obsessive homebrewer, it was awesome to see this.

As far as a recap of the brew, I see where I made a big mistake, resulting in lower efficiency (coupled with my crappy stirring at dough in) and coming in way under target gravity and over in volume. There is this neat little task I forgot to perform in Brewer's Friend under the "tools" section called "quick water requirements". I filled out my estimated equipment profile based off of reading others posts but never did the equation. I was looking to end with 3 gallons of Wort, but I ended up with 4!

I was looking for a 1.060 Post Boil Gravity and came in at 1.040. So, If it's not too weak, I'll have a hell of a session Citra! Thanks for the help, all. Already looking forward to the next brew. I'll be in San Fran for NADA this coming weekend but the weekend after, it's on!

-Murph
 
Also, I've read that the grain absorb variable will change based on squeezing practices.
I squeeze the crap out of mine and fuequently forget to adjust my volumes for this. I think people are using half the grain absorbtion factor that regular all grain guys are using. Like .06 versus .12-.13. I haven't fixed my profile in beersmith to reflect BIAB from 3 vessel so I just drop a half gallon or so when I remember.
 
Alright, so, batch #2 has been completed. I was very bummed, since I had my water volumes correct this time, that I only got 60% efficiency once again resulting a OG of 1.040 with a target of 1.050.
At this point, I "think" that my issues are: 1) Poor crush from the LHBS --- I tried two passes originally and it ground to flour for the most part, so I opted (both BIAB brews) for one pass. 2) Once I hit my mash temp after 10 or so minutes of stirring, I covered it and let is sit for the full hour without stirring, which I thought was ok. Apparently I should be stirring?

I also squeeze my bag like my life depends on it.

And one final question. When getting my mash temperature, I stick my probe to about an inch to two above the grain bed, and use that. I have noticed that if I stick the probe into the grain itself, the temperature is higher. Where should the actual reading be taking place?

I'd love all of the help I can get. After making some very good Extract beers for the last several years, I am bummed to have my first 2 AG batches come out so poorly from targeted volumes (first batch)/gravity(first and second batches). I still have beer, weak beer, but I made it!

I'd be happy to post the recipe(s) I have used if it'll help figure out my problems. Thanks in advance.
 
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You may think I'm crazy (many do) ... baby the mash for 60, stir and check and adjust temp every 20 (3 times total). Then walk away. Go grocery shopping, shoot some hoops, mow the driveway, shovel the lawn. Come back at 90 to 100 .. stir it real good and check a 60 degree sample. I think it will make a difference even with the single crush. But I'm crazy.
 
Murphy2012 said:
Alright, so, batch #2 has been completed. I was very bummed, since I had my water volumes correct this time, that I only got 60% efficiency once again resulting a OG of 1.040 with a target of 1.050.
At this point, I "think" that my issues are: 1) Poor crush from the LHBS --- I tried two passes originally and it ground to flour for the most part, so I opted (both BIAB brews) for one pass. 2) Once I hit my mash temp after 10 or so minutes of stirring, I covered it and let is sit for the full hour without stirring, which I thought was ok. Apparently I should be stirring?

I also squeeze my bag like my life depends on it.

And one final question. When getting my mash temperature, I stick my probe to about an inch to two above the grain bed, and use that. I have noticed that if I stick the probe into the grain itself, the temperature is higher. Where should the actual reading be taking place?

I'd love all of the help I can get. After making some very good Extract beers for the last several years, I am bummed to have my first 2 AG batches come out so poorly from targeted volumes (first batch)/gravity(first and second batches). I still have beer, weak beer, but I made it!

I'd be happy to post the recipe(s) I have used if it'll help figure out my problems. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Stirring and recirculation should help boost your efficiency some, as would using the double pass. Don't be concerned about it being too fine, you won't have any problems normally associated with it as long as your bag has a fine enough mesh to catch it (it should)
 
Thanks, priceless. I use a Wilserbag so I don't think much is getting through that. I also have a mesh tube at the bottom of the kettle for another level of filtration.

I may just get a cereal killer and buy and mill my grains at home.
 
Murphy2012 said:
Thanks, priceless. I use a Wilserbag so I don't think much is getting through that. I also have a mesh tube at the bottom of the kettle for another level of filtration.

I may just get a cereal killer and buy and mill my grains at home.
Click to expand...

Milling your own grains will give you a level of consistency you are not likely to get from your LHBS. You can also start buying your base grains in bulk, which can save ~50%. This can help pay for the mill.

Brew on :mug:
 
I was looking at a Corona, actually. I suppose that it would work fine given the technique I am using. Also sales a good amount in the pocket! Thanks all.
 
I'm not sure how cheap you wish to go but if you have the time you could modify a pasta mill to use a a grain mill. I picked up a pasta mill from a craft store called Michaels for around $13 (using a 50% off coupon). I got surprisingly high efficiency on my second BIAB attempt using this modified mill. Here is a thread that explains how to make the mill.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/using-pasta-maker-mill-grain-75784/

I only use my mill to re-mill what I'm getting from the LHBS. When this mill eventually wears out (which may not be too far off), I plan to spend the money on a legitimate grain mill.
 
wilserbrewer said:
Don't fear a fine crush YES you will have some flour, that's ok!

Lots use an inexpensive corona mill with success fwiw...
Click to expand...

I just built your corona-mill-in-a-bucket today, took me less than an hour, and except for not making the cuts for the hopper long enough and breaking part of the lid (fixed with duct tape), everything worked perfectly. Putting an eyebolt in my drill to drive the screw, it rips through malt like a knife through butter! Good thing, I just bought 7 bags...
Thanks for posting the link in your sig.
 
Eamon said:
I'm not sure how cheap you wish to go but if you have the time you could modify a pasta mill to use a a grain mill. I picked up a pasta mill from a craft store called Michaels for around $13 (using a 50% off coupon).
Click to expand...

While I agree, a pasta roller can work, after playing with one for a bit, I gave it away and continued to use my corona mill. For an extra $13, or $26 total shipped the corona will outperform and outlast a pasta roller 10 fold. Sorry to discount your idea, I just respectfully feel the pasta roller is not money well spent.

http://www.discounttommy.com/p-189-...er-for-wheat-grains-or-use-as-a-nut-mill.aspx
 
Corona is a good mill. I hand crank mine (which is actually a Victoria mill - same thing pretty much) so I don't even do the shroud/bucket thing. It kicks up dust with wheat, but is a pretty clean grind when hand cranking.
 
I slip a gallon ziplock bag over the milling part of my Corona style mill and hold it in place with a couple clothes pins. That contains the milled grains and the dust. The full hopper on mine makes about a full ziplock. I can one-hand these over the pot to control how fast it gets dumped in so I can stir out the dough balls as they form.
 
You've convinced me. I've got Amazon Prime so will be purchasing this in the next hour unless I am convinced otherwise.
 
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Murphy2012 said:
will be purchasing this in the next hour unless I am convinced otherwise.
Click to expand...

Just be aware that these Corona type mills are crudely manufactured cast iron Chinese junk. The upside is that if your are the least bit handy, they can be fashioned into an effective grain mill at a great price, IMO.

When you receive your mill, be sure to wash the stinky packing oil off with hot soapy water and dry well.
 
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Murphy2012 said:
You've convinced me. I've got Amazon Prime so will be purchasing this in the next hour unless I am convinced otherwise.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I purchased last week, it now is a fully contained grain mill with a 5 gallon hopper. $27 for the mill, $5 for the bucket and lid, $10 for the water bottle. Wood and lag bolts already on hand. I could have done it cheaper by scrounging the bucket and bottle, but I wanted to get out done while I had the time.
After doing a crush with it fully tightened, I'm considering trying a coarser grind for my three vessel system as well. If it works, I could sell my roller mill.
 
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Thanks to both of you! I'm a pretty handy guy so I'll be building this this weekend as long as the shipping is accurate.
 
Alright, it's been a busy two weeks! I've made my Corona Mills system, and put together a cheapy stir plate for starters, and started harvesting yeast! I've got a 3 day weekend and intend to brew my test batch for our wedding favors tomorrow (have little hope for this recipe) and Saturday I am introducing my buddy to brewing with a single hop (Amarillo) Pale names Thrilla from Amarilla that we came up with together.

I also got some 5.2 stabilizer (using Poland Spring Water) to help with efficiency as well as milling my own grains. I also picked up a Thermowerks DOT thermometer with 12" probe to use during my mash, with my Taylor handheld acting as backup.

Will post results as soon as I have them, hopefully can nail this efficiency thing down before it drives me bonkers!

-Murph
 

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