NEIPA yeast that are less likely to produce diacytle?

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Turfgrass

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Looking for some suggestions, but also re-examining my process to help reduce a recent mishaps. A NEIPA brew with Wyeast 1318, mosaic, Simcoe and Citra hops provided flavor and aroma, but contained a silky/oily mouth feel with some after taste. Also has some flaked oats in the mix and assumed they were fresh. Any yeast suggestions that might be worth considering for reduced diactlye conversion? Thanks in advance.
 
I’ve never had diacetyl with 1318 and I’ve used it maybe 30 or so times.

What’s your fermentation schedule? What pitch rate are your shooting for? Do you use yeast nutrient? How are you dry hopping? Ever done a forced diacetyl test?
 
I’ve never had diacetyl with 1318 and I’ve used it maybe 30 or so times.

What’s your fermentation schedule? What pitch rate are your shooting for? Do you use yeast nutrient? How are you dry hopping? Ever done a forced diacetyl test?
I fermented at 68*
Added hops on day 2
Added hops on day 6
Day 10 raised temp to 70 for 3 days
Cold crashed
Closed transfer to keg
 
I fermented at 68*
Added hops on day 2
Added hops on day 6
Day 10 raised temp to 70 for 3 days
Cold crashed
Closed transfer to keg

Pitch at 66, ferment at 68, bump to 70 while there's still activity instead of after.

Don't add dry hops so early. If you must dry hop during fermentation wait until the very end. Keeping dry
hops in contact with that much yeast for that long is not a good thing.

Use yeast nutrient, I'd highly recommend the Servomyces stuff White Labs sells.

Do a forced diacetyl test before you crash. Super easy. Take a sample. Put it in a small container you
can seal. Shake the piss out of it. Put it in 160* water for say 20 minutes. Cool to serving temp,
smell/taste. If it's buttery it needs more time.

How are you oxygenating? 1318 demands a little more O2 than other yeasts for maximum performance.
 
Pitch at 66, ferment at 68, bump to 70 while there's still activity instead of after.

Don't add dry hops so early. If you must dry hop during fermentation wait until the very end. Keeping dry
hops in contact with that much yeast for that long is not a good thing.

Use yeast nutrient, I'd highly recommend the Servomyces stuff White Labs sells.

Do a forced diacetyl test before you crash. Super easy. Take a sample. Put it in a small container you
can seal. Shake the piss out of it. Put it in 160* water for say 20 minutes. Cool to serving temp,
smell/taste. If it's buttery it needs more time.

How are you oxygenating? 1318 demands a little more O2 than other yeasts for maximum performance.
I was under the impression that biotransformation occurs about two days in with dry hops. I also have the ability to dump from a conical, so maybe drop cone sooner and before second hopping, or double the dry hop amount at one time.

I use Wyeast nutrient in my starters and at the last 15 min of the boil.

Oxygen is a bit of a guess, however I use the red portable cans of o2 for about 45 seconds.
 
I use WLP066 and never need to add hops during active fermentation. Hell, I add gelatin and cold crash to ~38° and its still hazy as all get out.

It's by far my favorite NEIPA strain. It doesn't give me that burnt rubber after taste that 1318 leaves behind.

This bad boy has zero adjuncts in it:
20190409_171617.jpg
 
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I dry hop on day 2 of fermentation . 3 to 4 days later I take em out. Never had an issue. Bio transformation in a NEIPA . I dump the trub and then dry hop again when its 5 days out from being kegged
 
I use WLP066 and never need to add hops during active fermentation. Hell, I add gelatin and cold crash to ~38° and its still hazy as all get out.

It's by far my favorite NEIPA strain. It doesn't give me that burnt rubber after taste that 1318 leaves behind.

This bad boy has zero adjuncts in it:
View attachment 621547
care to share your recipe?
 
care to share your recipe?

Nothing unusual for a NEIPA, don't have the recipe in front of me but it was something along these lines:

10lb golden promise
5lb 2-row
1lb crystal 10

1oz citra @ 10min

1.5oz citra whirlpool
2oz el dorado whirlpool
2oz idaho 7 whirlpool

dry hop same as whirlpool on day 9

don't remember OG but FG was 1.018
 
I was under the impression that biotransformation occurs about two days in with dry hops. I also have the ability to dump from a conical, so maybe drop cone sooner and before second hopping, or double the dry hop amount at one time.

I use Wyeast nutrient in my starters and at the last 15 min of the boil.

Oxygen is a bit of a guess, however I use the red portable cans of o2 for about 45 seconds.


Ummm yes and no. What do you think the yeast is doing to the hop oils you added in the kettle? Transforming them... maybe...

Matt Brynildson was maybe the first person to make the biotransformation word popular in referring to hops. He’s a hop chemist, knows some stuff. He adds a small dry hop charge within the last .4-.6 plato of fermentation and then again a larger one after fermentation is complete.

Hops are anti microbial. Adding them while your yeast is vigorously fermenting is almost like adding a toxin to the beer. The alpha acids coat the hops and can cause some nasty **** to happen as well as negatively affect yeast health and performance. There’s a reason professional breweries don’t harvest yeast from beers over a certain IBU.

The “overripe” quality everyone uses to describe so many “NEIPA”s is a result of hops in contact with too much yeast for too long. It can be perceived as “over ripe” for some, “rotting” for others, and just down right nasty vegetal garbage for others (myself included). Some people are sensitive to the mercaptans, others aren’t.

Not to mention most of your favorite brewers of this style aren’t doing it.

Other Half
Monkish
Aslin
Hill Farmstead
Alchemist

Etc.

I’d try waiting until the tail end of fermentation to add say 1/4 of your DH amount. Do a D-rest, check for diacetyl. Cool to 60, leave for 24-36 hours, remove as much yeast as possible. Add 2nd dry hop charge and leave at 60 2-4 days then cool and transfer.

I’d give your yeast a little more O2 as well. Bubbles should just be coming out of the stone, not too aggressively. I’d go for 1.5-2 minute for a 1.060 beer. Longer for 1.070 or above.
 
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I dry hop on day 2 of fermentation . 3 to 4 days later I take em out. Never had an issue. Bio transformation in a NEIPA . I dump the trub and then dry hop again when its 5 days out from being kegged
Do you bag them or drop cone?
 
Looking for some suggestions, but also re-examining my process to help reduce a recent mishaps. A NEIPA brew with Wyeast 1318, mosaic, Simcoe and Citra hops provided flavor and aroma, but contained a silky/oily mouth feel with some after taste. Also has some flaked oats in the mix and assumed they were fresh. Any yeast suggestions that might be worth considering for reduced diactlye conversion? Thanks in advance.
Silky/oily mouthfeel sounds like beta-glucans, of which flaked oats are an excellent source. I would try removing them completely from the recipe before blaming diacetyl.
 
I just tried it after waiting another week and a half and the I notice a difference, but want to taste with it a little warmer.

Still a nice smooth mouth feel, but the aroma doesn’t linger in the glass. Also could use more hop flavor and carbonation. Grading it a C.


I’ll be happy with the base recipe if there is no aftertastes once beer warms a bit. Thinking it could have been some residual line clearner or something other than diacytle.
image.jpg
 
WY1318 is not a high diacetyl producer. The silky feel are more likely from the oats contribution (in addition to the hops). Maybe try brewing a similar beer without oats and see if you have the same character.
 
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