Need help making cider with what I have on hand!

[Jordan Aschaber]

First Brew(if you want to skip reading this first brew history and see what I need help with go to second paragraph after the two pictures): In the last couple weeks I've made my first batch of Cider or apple wine (if you can call it that). It was just an experiment that I had high hopes for but also knew there was a chance it could fail miserably. So I took a 2L(.5gal) jug of pasteurized Apple juice from Costco and threw in a teaspoon of Fleischmann's bread yeast in and just let her rip. After about two weeks of fermentation I couldn't wait any longer (very, very little co2 was being generated at this time) so I decided to rack it (having little idea of why I was or what racking even does [I guess it's mostly for clearing?]). I decided to taste a bit of the cider, and it wasn't that bad! However it tasted like not sweet at all white wine and the alcohol content seemed pretty low probably 2.5% range(didn't use a hydrometer). I just decided to bastardize it and after racking added about ¼cup of brown simple syrup and ½cup of apple juice, mostly just to see if I could raise the alcohol content a bit and give it some flavor(it's only on it's 3rd or 4th day of brewing at the time of writing).
Primary Fermentation:

My new and improved 2L carboy that I moved to in the second rack:

Next Brew:
So because of the pandemic I was looking to basically use what I have on hand to brew this next batch. My last brew was only a 2L(0.5gal) this time I can use up to 22L of apple juice or fill a 6gal carboy if I should (I'm hoping for everyone's expertise on this one).

Objective: I need your help to use what I have to make something that resembles cider. I'm not worried about how this Cider turns out, it's more for learning and just something that I can have a drink of in the evening to wind down. My words to live by when asked what I would like to drink is usually "Anything with alcohol in it"(I'm not an alcoholic right? Haha just kidding, but I do like to have one or two stiff drinks a week in the evening.) Even if it's not so tasty it's chuggable that's fine with me, that's probably even better so that I don't actually. However with that said, I'm not trying to make a jail toliet brew so I will sacrifice some alcohol content for taste/etc.

Also with the stuff I have on hand I don't have to make a big batch, but if you think I should then steer me which ever way!

What I have on hand:
- 11x 2L jugs of Costco apple juice as pictured above.
- Fleischmann's Bread Yeast
- 1 or two pounds of brown sugar
- lots of white sugar
- 6 gallon carboy (I have two more 2L glass jars if I should just use smaller containers)
- Also a fairly decently stocked spice cupboard (but I'm not looking for any seasonal twists in the flavor just a simple cider)
- Bleach
- Maybe other stuff

A few notes:
- Most of my brewing equipment is hand me down, so I have a hydrometer but I have yet to use it, it looked so homemade that I was afraid to use it/to lazy to sanitize it(I guess I should check it in water?)
- I think I have most equipment except I don't think I have a wine theif, I have the hose attachment to fill bottles but I'm not sure if that's a theif or not.
Edit: You don't need to spell out every little detail of things I could do, you could always say like well Google "how to see if your hydrometer is calibrated" and such. I'm just curious if this is all you had, and wanted, how would you go about brewing with what I have/want.

... Can't think of much else, and this post is probably getting way out of hand anyway, if I think of more details I'll post them.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Typically apple juice fermented dry will be around 7% ABV. I generally don't add sugar to my cider except for carbonation, because I'd rather have flavor than increased alcohol. Adding sugar causes loss of flavor and makes the cider unbalanced. I'd say you're already doing the best you can with what you have listed.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

First, put a switch plate on that light switch.

Heat up some water in a sauce pan to simmering or to a boil, then turn off the stove. Turn off the water and dissolve ~5 pounds of sugar in the water, add a bit keep stirring, continue adding and stirring the sugar, until you have it all in and dissolved. (this is simple syrup)
more sugar= higher ABV

Add a couple of jugs (3-5) of the apple juice to the carboy, then add the simple syrup, add the rest of the apple juice to get it up to the shoulder of the carboy, add yeast, then the airlock and the stopper.

The carboy should be clean and sanitary first. A cup of bleach in a gallon of water, swish it around, covering all surfaces, then dump it out. Since you will be using bleach to sanitize, consider adding a cup or so of apple juice to the carboy, cover all of the surfaces with the apple juice, then dump it out.

The brown sugar will add some interesting flavors, but maybe next time.

Even though everything is on "lockdown", Amazon is still delivering and fulfilling orders. The right yeast, will provide better results and is really inexpensive(10 packs for ~$8US). I prefer K1V-1116, everyone has their preference.

Now it will need about a month or more.
On the first day it will look like apple juice, then it will become murky, like that in your picture in the plastic jug, it will go through several stages, when it becomes clear again and looks like apple juice, then it is ready to package. You can rinse the containers that the apple juice came in and put it back in there, and if you have room, put most of it in the refrigerator, to keep that bottles from swelling, like in your pic.

It may be sweet or it may be dry, you will just have to wait and see.

Personally, I like it sweet, and add more sugar than the yeast can consume, it ends up with a higher ABV, but it will be how I like it. I don't stabilize it with sulfites or anything, but I do keg my ciders, so I have no worries about additional fermentation.

I see that you are in Canada, so you can do the conversion to metric.

 

[Jordan Aschaber]

Okay thanks for your input/advice guys!

Haha yeah, the light switch.. I am in the process of painting just ran out of paint and out of work at the moment... Anyway!

Talk in any measurement you like, us Canadians are taught metric but being so close to you guys we usually use imperial more for most things.

I definitely like the idea of more ABV, so I will probably add the sugar. If the cider turns out sweet will it taste more like apple/cider then if it didn't or does that matter? Or does quality of juice/cider used mostly what hinges on that cider flavor? I'd probably like it drier but I'd rather have more alcohol and if sweeter helps fruit flavors then that could be a plus.

And I guess I may have to concede to the yeast suggestion, I don't care about the taste it may give but is it that the baker's yeast won't do the job as well? However if I make the full 6 gal of it rather not fail horribly.

OFF TOPIC: Haha, just a side note on the whole metric imperial thing. Just one example, when you go to the doctors to weight your baby (probably children and adults too) they have to record everything in metric. And then it's basically unwritten protocol to ask "do you want to know how much that is in pounds?" 90% of the time we use imperial, really mostly just in volume measurements they decide to screw us up with metric.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

You will get all sorts of answers regarding the quality of juice.
I use the cheapest stuff from Dollar General or Aldi's or Walmart and have good results.

I'll also add frozen concentrate apple juice, for the concentrated flavor mainly.
Usually as many cans as jugs of juice that I add.

 

[Jordan Aschaber]

Oh okay good to know. I was worried I was just kind of doomed that way, but I guess maybe not. Yeah it seems you guys have lots of great places to shop there, best it gets here is about $1CAD a liter or that's probably like $3.80-$4CAD a gallon. Maybe I'll try and see if I can find a better deal than Costco, it also is just easy though, when you walk out with 10 gallons of apple juice no one batts an eye there

I've seen people talking about the frozen concentrate but I guess I should have put more thought into using that too.

 

[videojunkie1208]

Biggest concern with commercial juices is the addition of sorbates and sulfates as food preservatives. These will kill your happy yeasts in no time flat. double and triple check your labels to make sure that there is no mention of any preservatives.

 

[Chalkyt]

I have tried "store bought" juice but it doesn't turn out as good as my own juice from pressed apples. What does help however, is lightly hopping it. A few days before bottling, suspend some hops or pellets and taste, taste, taste. The cider takes on the hoppy flavour quite quickly and does wonders for the somewhat insipid taste that I get from the store juice.

I agree that most juice will be around 1.050 so even without using your hydrometer you can expect around 7% ABV when fully fermented.

 

[Jordan Aschaber]

Right I'll keep that in mind, and the frozen concentrates probably almost outright don't have preservatives due to the preserving nature of low temperatures or is that something to watch out for too?

Edit: I have no experience with beer brewing and hops, may be I'll have to try that out... I have no idea where to start thinking about hops durning this pandemic lol. But I do like the idea, I'm a much bigger fan of beer/hops then I am cider(Don't get me wrong cider is great, I just love a half decent beer). Just it appears to me that cider tastes better for the effort I have to put into it also.

Edit: Also from looking on the forums I don't think I'll do many more bread yeast experiments unless it's that JOAM

 

[jseyfert3]

Oh okay good to know. I was worried I was just kind of doomed that way, but I guess maybe not. Yeah it seems you guys have lots of great places to shop there, best it gets here is about $1CAD a liter or that's probably like $3.80-$4CAD a gallon. Maybe I'll try and see if I can find a better deal than Costco, it also is just easy though, when you walk out with 10 gallons of apple juice no one batts an eye there

That doesn't seem too bad. $4CAD is $2.84USD at current exchange rates ($3 at pre-Jan rates). I just paid $2.99/gal for Indian Summer brand juice down here. That was a mix of apple juice and apple juice concentrate.

About the cheapest I could have gone, barring Costco/Sam's club as I don't have memberships, is $2.18/gal for Aldi brand apple juice. That is make 100% from apple juice concentrate and water. I went with some Aldi juice and mostly Indian Summer, only because the Aldi juice was sold in half gallons, they didn't have much left, and I felt a little odd trying to buy 12 half-gallons. Whereas the Indian Summer sold at a local grocery store was sold in gallons so it "seems" like less when checking out and they also had a lot more apple juice in stock.

Speaking of prices though, we went camping up in Ontario, NE of Thunder Bay last year (Sleeping Giant Provincial Park). A coworker told us to buy gas before we went into Canada. We did, but bought some gas in Canada later to ensure we'd have enough as we'd be driving for a while with no gas stations (and pulling camper we get terrible gas mileage). I had to convert liters to gallons and CAD to USD but if I recall correctly gas on the US side of the border was somewhere around $2.80 USD per gallon and the gas we bought in Canada worked out to about $4.25 USD per gallon!!

 

[Jordan Aschaber]

Oh I've been meaning to ask about bottling as well. Which is going to probably be a big deciding factor on how big of batches I make.

I'd love for it to be carbonated but I do not own a keg and I finally too back all my empties for the deposit a while ago.. Basically all I have to store the cider in is wine bottles at this point. And I don't have enough money extra money (that or my wife will just kill me) to buy bottles or a keg at this point.

So I've read that obviously I can't store it in thr wine bottles unless I make damn sure there will be no more fermentation, but also like I said I would prefer it to be carbed.

I do have a couple kombucha bottles, although most of my stash I had to get rid of moving into a condo, and I've probably only have enough bottles to bottle a quart or so.

So what should I do?

Can I ferment small amounts in the 6gal carboy? Or should I use a smaller containers to ferment it? Can I leave a 6gal batch and only bottle a 6 pack at a time or will that disturb it too much. Or am I just doomed to making still cider and bottling in wine bottles?

Edit: I have some EC-1118 or whatever coming the wine yeast.

 

[videojunkie1208]

I've never carbonated anything, but in theory if you are using pressure rated bottles (wine bottles with Punts, or Beer Bottles), you could ferment it dry, and then add a bit of bottling sugar to the bottles as you bottle them, and wait a few weeks for them to carbonate...

You'll wind up with a bit of stuff at the bottom from the fermentation in the bottle, and it should carbonate. but I would tread lightly, measure carefully, and put them somewhere where if you do get a 'bottle bomb' it's easy to clean up after.

 

[jseyfert3]

Can I ferment small amounts in the 6gal carboy? Or should I use a smaller containers to ferment it? Can I leave a 6gal batch and only bottle a 6 pack at a time or will that disturb it too much. Or am I just doomed to making still cider and bottling in wine bottles?

To some extent you can make smaller batches in a 6 gallon carboy. I'm not sure where it breaks down, but I don't think I'd try making a 1 gallon batch in a 6 gallon carboy.

I don't believe you could bottle a 6 pack at a time from a 6 gallon batch. This would introduce oxygen into the headspace while also making a lot more headspace. If you had gallon containers you could bottle a 6-pack or two and bottle the rest into gallon containers, but at that point you'd probably be better served just making a lot of 1-gallon batches to start with and leaving them alone until you're ready to bottle.

Do you not have friends you can snag bottles off of? Otherwise, you could always drink more beer to build up your collection!

 

[Jordan Aschaber]

Haha that is true, although for the most part we are trying to keep our expenses to a minimum as my work has dried up at the moment. Although I do love the idea!

And we are trying to obey the physical distancing rules as best we can be a good example by them also. We just moved 75 miles away from the drinkers we know so it would be a sad trip just to get empties lol.

Thank you very much for your input. I guess for now I'm probably doomed to making smaller batches. If I want it cold or carbonated.

 

[Jordan Aschaber]

So my impulsiveness as has been at it again. But thank goodness my real yeast finally arrived. But I have more questions and things to confess.

So the picture with the jar of clear Apple juice I put a heaping cup of sugar(0.4- 0.5lbs) and made it into simple syrup and mixed it in and then put in a ¼teaspoon of EC-1118, is that enough yeast?

Also I only used part of the package of yeast and then put it in that container as you can see in the image and put it in the fridge. Is that a good way to store it?

EDIT: This one is my technical real attempt now lol, additionally I will be topping it up with AJ after it calms down.

Bonus questions!
In these two I put some lemonade concentrate with the Apple juice because that's all the grocery store had, is that okay? I mean I'm just curious if the lemons would be a harsher environment than the Apple juice?

Unfortunately I used bread yeast there again... However today just to ruin everything even more I pitched a little EC-1118 in it now that it has arrived. Does putting in two kinds of yeast do anything good, bad, indifferent?

 

[Rish]

If you have access to carbonated beverage plastic bottles (soda, seltzer, etc.), you can use those to carbonate your cider. Sanitize, fill with primed cider from bottling bucket or add table sugar to each bottle (1/2 tsp per 12 oz.), put cap on loosely, squeeze out air, tighten cap, waitt until to bottle is very firm, enjoy!

 

[Rish]

Also, I suggest squeezing air out of your yeast packet, seal with tape, store in fridge.