My next brew will be BIAB....some related questions

[fendersrule]

Finally ordered a BIAB to use with my 15G kettle.

1) I have a 15G kettle and I still plan to make double batches. In-fact, making double batches is a must for me because it takes roughly the same time. According to an online calculator, 34lbs of grain will take up ~13.35G of volume given that you're having 1.25 quarts of water per pound of grain. It seems that I would be tight (still enough room to stir), but should be doable.

Basically, I won't be able to do my pre-boil amount with BIAB method. I'll have to lower it, but I'm assuming that 1.25 quarts of water per lb of grain would still lead to great efficiency. For 34lbs of grain, this would mean mashing with 10.6 gallons (maybe even a little bit more).

It seems that the calculator is placing 34lbs of grain to take up ABOUT 3 gallons of space.

My usual pre-boil is 12 gallons or so (2x 5 gallon carboys filled all the way up). If I did my usual pre-boil, then I would be 15 gallons. No go.

2) Basic-ass mashing question. When I get my mash temp stabilized, I cover it (I don't insulate it), and walk away for 30 minutes (or R.H.A.H.B). After 30 minutes, I'll come by and check. Usually I see about a 2-4F difference, depending on weather conditions. From there, I reheat (low) and stir while constantly checking temperature to bring it back up to proper mash temp, then I cover, and let it finish for another 30 minutes, maybe even more. Is this a proper approach?

3) It's my understanding that you can grind up the grains even more with BIABing. When I've previously grained (muslin-sock partial mash method) I would grind enough to split the shell, but I wouldn't grind anymore to obliterate the grain. I've been reading that you can grind pretty aggressively (not so agressive that it turns it to 100% powder) but a nice agressive grind. Is this true?

That's basically all my BIAB questions. It looks pretty damn straight forward. Get water to proper strike temp, stick bag in, clip it in, poor in grain (slowly) while doing an "upward" motion mix. Then proceed to mashing. When mashing is over. raise up bag and and crank on the heat. Let it drain for 10 minutes or so. Squeeze the bag to get it all wort out. Splarge with a water hose if boil volume is low. Then continue to do everything I've always done.

 

[EDF713]

I'd say 34 pounds probably won't work unless you do a sparge, which won't be easy with that much grain, you'd definitely want a pulley. It also depends on how aggressively you boil, boil-off rate is key. I use http://www.biabcalculator.com/ and beersmith to calculate my totals. I don't bother squeezing much, so the default grain absorption setting for beersmith is more accurate than biabcalculator's default settings, which assumes some squeezing.

For the mash, I don't bother heating partway through because it's a pain, but it works if you stir a bunch to prevent scorching. I wrap my kettle with reflectix (from Home Depot or Lowes), and usually drop 2 degrees in an hour. A heavy blanket or sleeping bag works, too. You could also infuse with some boiling water. All work fine.

Grind to your heart's content, one beauty of BIAB is no stuck sparges! I don't grind to flour, but others do. I consistently get 70% efficiency with my local shop's mill, and that's good enough for me.

 

[LittleRiver]

... BIAB ...34lbs of grain...

If you haven't already done so, rig yourself an overhead hoist point for raising the bag. Use an overhead pulley and a second pulley at the bag to give you some mechanical advantage. A ratcheting pulley at the bag is recommended.

.... I cover it (I don't insulate it)...reheat (low) and stir while constantly checking temperature...

Insulate the kettle and you won't have to re-heat. A sleeping bag fits nicely over a 15gal kettle.

... I've been reading that you can grind pretty aggressively (not so agressive that it turns it to 100% powder) but a nice agressive grind. Is this true?

Yes. You can grind very fine indeed, there will be lots of flour in the grind. A .025" mill gap works great for me.

...Let it drain for 10 minutes or so. Squeeze the bag to get it all wort out. Splarge with a water hose if boil volume is low. Then continue to do everything I've always done.

Let it drain during the entire boil, let gravity drain it completely. By then it'll be much lighter and much cooler, which will make handling it for disposal much easier.

If you're going to sparge with a hose, use an RV hose made for potable water. Water from a standard garden hose tastes like crap, and is no good for you.

 

[fendersrule]

Thanks guys. Sounds like a sleeping bag may be a really cheap cost effective thing! Hell, I probably have a spare I could use for brewing here on out.

Yes, I ordered a 250lb pulley as well as the bag. I brew over an awning, so I can easily screw a hook in.

I picked a 34lb grain recipe because that's probably going to be a safe max.

I've watched the BIAB video (from the creators of BIAB) and it showed the guy squeezing the bag after letting it sit a little bit. Tons of wort came out..gallons even...and he used 3 quarts per lb of grain. Sounds like it's not a common procedure to do it, but it doesn't hurt.

If you don't squeeze the bag, and let it sit over the pot during the boil, will it really drain all the wort?

Sounds like putting a sleeping bag over the kettle will solve me having to turn the heat on after awhile. But the process of turning on the heat after awhile, if you do it carefully, stir, and watch the temps like a hawk, isn't a bad thing. In-fact, I can see how it would be a pain for the BIAB method because the grain is much more closer to the bottom of the kettle, where as with my previous muslin sock method, the grain isn't kissing the bottom so much. Thanks for the advice here guys!

Sounds like if I don't plan on splarging, then a 15G kettle is probably good for about 28lbs of grain at pre-boil volume or so. That's just an eyeball statement. You can make plenty of beer varieties....plenty.....with 28lbs of grain for a double batch. But you can't make everything--particularly with very strong beers that have higher FGs. For example, a 7.5% stout/porter with a 1.022-1.026 finish will require a larger kettle. Otherwise, you'll have to splarge, and I think splarging a large grain bag will be a tad bit difficult to do efficiently.

I'll probably use my kettle until it's time to make a beer that I really want to make that requires a hefty grain bill. Then, I'll have to get a 20G kettle. I'll splarge when I need to splarge. For BIAB kettles, do you guys still like the ones that have the built-in stuff (thermometor, valves) or do you actually prefer a blank kettle. Right now I use a blank kettle.

Right now, I have my pre-boil nailed down exactly for my kettle and for double batching. I basically marked a clothes hanger on exactly the amount of water it needs to fill up 2x 5G carboys exactly. I cannot tell you how much gallons it is, but if I had to guess, it's probably about 12 gallons or so, maybe a little less. I have a wide kettle, not a tall kettle, so I lose a little bit more volume during boiling.

 

[McKnuckle]

If you don't squeeze the bag, and let it sit over the pot during the boil, will it really drain all the wort?

Think about it... if you hang a bag full of soaked grain and gravity drain it, that process will still recover more wort than a traditional free floating mash in a tun with a manifold, where the soaked grain is trapped on the bottom at the end.

So I would not get hung up on the concept of "all" the wort. Some people squeeze, and some do not, each based on their experience. I do not squeeze but I gravity drain until it slowly drips.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I brew 10 gallon BIAB. I brew around 25# 1.060 beers. 34# is going to hold a TON of wort in the grain bag after you hoist it....gallons.
After about 10 or 15 minutes of draining I give it a good squeeze and a decant amount comes out. Let it sit another 10 minutes and give it another good squeeze. Squeezing from different angles seems to get out a little more wort....it gets compacted a little.

Squeeze the crap out of the bag just before moving from above the pot. It stops the dripping for a bit so you can transfer without dripping.

Get a rubbermaid type bin and stick the bag in there. And dump it whenever you want..it makes things easy

Cant help with #1 I do full volume

#2 plan will work fine

#3 Get a gift card without raised numbers. Adjust the rollers so the card moves the rollers when you raise and lower the card between the rollers. I shouldnt be "tight" pulling the card up and down...just enough to move the rollers....this will give you a perfect crush and youll hit you SG numbers if not a little better than you might be used to

Do yourself a massive favor and drop a $100 on a 20 gallon pot and do full volume mashes without worrying about overflows and boilovers and sparging.....SO much easier with less to deal with and probably better efficiency

 

[EDF713]

I'll probably use my kettle until it's time to make a beer that I really want to make that requires a hefty grain bill. Then, I'll have to get a 20G kettle. I'll splarge when I need to splarge. For BIAB kettles, do you guys still like the ones that have the built-in stuff (thermometor, valves) or do you actually prefer a blank kettle. Right now I use a blank kettle.

I started BIAB with a keggle with ball valve and thermometer, then switched to a smaller blank kettle. I prefer the simplicity and didn't care for the thermometer, it's easier to use a more accurate handheld. I also don't have to worry about snagging the bag on the probe. I still have the keggle for higher gravity beers, but I have no problem in using some extract to bump up the gravity when using my small kettle.

The ball valve is a toss-up. I now just siphon into my fermentor, the siphon is easier to clean than the ball valve, though there is some debate as to how often you should clean it.

 

[fendersrule]

Thanks everyone. This gives me lots of confidence and hope.

I actually use a corona crusher. I've since modifed it to work with a power tool, so it's really not a big deal for crushing. Assuming that the credit-card method won't work with a grill like this, I'll just have to adjust it just right and let it go. I'm certain I can crush the grain really well with this crusher. I can also use the mill at the home brew store, which is more of a barly-specific mill.

For now, I'm going to attempt to BIAB with a 15G kettle since I already ordered a bag for it. I should be fine for the next several months. Spring/summer is coming which means beers in the 5-6.2% range. Eventually, I'll move up to a 20G kettle, Aren't those much more than $100? Keep in mind I boil on propane...not electric. It's going to need a pretty sturdy bottom.

The "unknown" for me is what should be my max grain lb for a double batch in a 15G kettle in order to not do any splarging.

 

[LittleRiver]

... it showed the guy squeezing the bag after letting it sit a little bit. Tons of wort came out..gallons even...If you don't squeeze the bag, and let it sit over the pot during the boil, will it really drain all the wort?...

I think what you saw in that video was a bag that had not been fully drained by gravity, so of course it had quite a bit of liquid left in it.

To resolve the question for myself I measured how much liquid was left in a fully drained bag after two of my brew sessions (5gal). One was a simple pale ale, the other an oatmeal stout with flaked barley and flaked oats. I let them gravity drain during the entire 60min boil, put them over a bucket, squeezed everything I could out of them, and measured it. I got about 1 cup from the pale ale, and about 1.5 cups from the stout. To me that verified that squeezing is not worth the effort it entails.

I'll probably use my [15gal] kettle until it's time to make a beer that I really want to make that requires a hefty grain bill. Then, I'll have to get a 20G kettle. I'll splarge when I need to splarge. For BIAB kettles, do you guys still like the ones that have the built-in stuff (thermometor, valves) or do you actually prefer a blank kettle. Right now I use a blank kettle.

Definitely put a drain valve in your kettle, you'll never regret it. The True Bulkhead and Three Piece Ball Valve from BrewHardware.com are what I used. I also used their camlock quick disconnect for my drain hose, which works great.

I don't recommend mounting a thermometer to your kettle, because the probe can snag the bag and tear it.

I use a ChefAlarm thermometer, which has a remote probe. The remote probe allows you to see the temp even if the kettle is covered with insulation. The temp alarm is great, you can start the water heating and go do something else, the thermometer will beep you when it's ready. There's some more information in this post.

For "normal" ABV beers I don't sparge -- there's no need to, I can exceed recipe targets without it. But for big beers I do, and I've found this to be the easiest method:

• mash with 50% of the total water volume
• drain into a bucket, leaving the bag/grains in place
• add the other 50% of the water, stir, hoist the bag, fire the heat for the boil
• pour the contents of the bucket into the kettle
• let gravity fully drain the bag during the boil

 

[fendersrule]

Thanks guys. I actually cancelled my order (still ordered the hoist, and such). After more research, I think I should upgrade to a 20G kettle before attempting to double batch.

I don't really require a valve on the bottom. I still have to move the kettle up to a higher position for drainage so it doesn't save that effort at all. Putting in a siphon tool and siphoning is really a very quick and easy thing...plus I can control better how much trub gets into the primaries?

Which 20G kettle would you guys recommend on propane heat, one that doesn't have a temp. probe?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I have a Concord pot off Ebay Great pot. I use electric so cant comment on how the propane would effect it. What many/most will recommend is a Tri bottom pot....If Concord makes a Tri bottom I would get it if the price is right...quality stainless pots that dont break the bank.

Auto siphon works fine for transferring. If you dont already have one get a !/2" instead of 3/8". It cuts a 15 minute transfer to 2 minutes....way better

Suck up all the trub...leave nothing in the pot....I doesn't hurt anything in the fermenter

 

[LittleRiver]

...I don't really require a valve on the bottom. I still have to move the kettle up to a higher position for drainage so it doesn't save that effort at all. Putting in a siphon tool and siphoning is really a very quick and easy thing...plus I can control better how much trub gets into the primaries?...

For me, moving a kettle full of wort is never worth the risks.

Raise your burner, that will allow you to gravity drain into your fermenter. There's a photo of the simple wooden stand I built in this post.

You can do 10gal batches in your 15gal kettle just fine with the process outlined in my last post.

You can control how much trub gets into your fermenter with a drain valve. You get to install the valve at the height you want. You can tip the kettle a little bit to get out the last bit, or leave it behind, your choice.

 

[fendersrule]

eBay:

I can get a triply 80qt concord kettle sealed for $138.98 shipped.

I can get a triply 80qt concord kettle w/ probe and valve for $169 shipped. Not welded.

I can get a triply 80qt concord with welded couplers for $236 shipped.

Not sure what to do. I'd be tempted to go for the un-drilled one. Moving 10 gallons of cooled off wort 3 feet horizontally and 2 feet vertically to my outside work bench isn't a problem for me. I'm a big dude.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I think what you saw in that video was a bag that had not been fully drained by gravity, so of course it had quite a bit of liquid left in it.

To resolve the question for myself I measured how much liquid was left in a fully drained bag after two of my brew sessions (5gal). One was a simple pale ale, the other an oatmeal stout with flaked barley and flaked oats. I let them gravity drain during the entire 60min boil, put them over a bucket, squeezed everything I could out of them, and measured it. I got about 1 cup from the pale ale, and about 1.5 cups from the stout. To me that verified that squeezing is not worth the effort it entails.
]

Thanks for doing this in an organized fashion...I was pretty certain this was true but never bothered to actually measure. I have been preaching this to the squeezer crowd for a few years but it seems to fall on deaf ears. Lol

My question is if one were to take a well squeezed bag and hang it and let it drain for an hour, how much additional wort would be produced from both dripping and squeezing?

I have a hunch that hanging and draining produces more overall than the most enthusiastic squeezer ever could...jmo

Just say no to squeezing, yet so many think they are producing so much wort all donned up in their silicon gloves...really lol there are far better things to squeeze than a hot wet bag of barley grains

 

[EDF713]

Thanks for doing this in an organized fashion...I was pretty certain this was true but never bothered to actually measure.

My question is if one were to take a well squeezed bag and hang it and let it drain for an hour, how much additional wort would be produced from both dripping and squeezing?

I have a hunch that hanging and draining produces more overall than the most enthusiastic squeezer ever could...jmo

Just say no to squeezing, yet so many think they are producing so much wort all donned up in their silicon gloves...really lol there are far better things to squeeze than a hot wet bag of barley grains

I bought some of those fancy gloves and squeezed and squeezed. Now I only use the gloves for handling smoked briskets and let it drain! Glad to hear the confirmation.

 

[fendersrule]

Letting it drain over the entire boil it is then!

I'm now thinking about this option:

I can get a triply 80qt concord with welded couplers for $236 shipped.

And just plug up the holes until I want to use them in the future. Have a kettle for life. Thoughts?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Thanks for doing this in an organized fashion...I was pretty certain this was true but never bothered to actually measure. I have been preaching this to the squeezer crowd for a few years but it seems to fall on deaf ears. Lol

My question is if one were to take a well squeezed bag and hang it and let it drain for an hour, how much additional wort would be produced from both dripping and squeezing?

I have a hunch that hanging and draining produces more overall than the most enthusiastic squeezer ever could...jmo

Just say no to squeezing, yet so many think they are producing so much wort all donned up in their silicon gloves...really lol there are far better things to squeeze than a hot wet bag of barley grains

He was measuring how much he got out AFTER a full hour of draining. Pretty sure nobody lets the bag drain for an hour. 25 pounds of grain holds a lot of liquid. I still get a good amount out if I squeeze the bag after 15 minutes or so.

Would probably be easier just to add a little more strike water and grain and not worry about squeezing the bag so much

 

[McKnuckle]

Just formulate your recipes for a grain absorption rate of 0.12 gal/lb, and don't squeeze. No need to be obsessed with squeezing just because it's physically possible. You don't squeeze the mash in a non-BIAB situation, so it's not a thing that should be considered necessary in BIAB. BIABers simply have the option of doing it as an "extra" - but it's just that, an option.

I hang the bag until it just slightly drips, which is long before the end of the boil, more like shortly after the boil begins. Again, the resulting absorption is factored into my recipes and is repeatable (which is a primary goal of establishing a process).

 

[rjs3273]

Just formulate your recipes for a grain absorption rate of 0.12 gal/lb, and don't squeeze.

Is that Hook Norton in your avatar picture? It's a long way from Bergen County.

Just running the wort off, no protracted draining/dripping and no squeezing, I pretty consistently measure 0.1gal/lb. I have been idly curious for a while what other folk get so it was good to hear your number. Is 0.12 something you measured or generic value from somewhere?

Yes, OK, 0.1 or 0.12 is not a huge difference. Basically I agree with your main point that it is not something to greatly worry about.

 

[McKnuckle]

Hi @rjs3273, yes it sure is and it sure is! I have been there, though, hence the photo which I took in summer of 2017. They have their original coolship up in that top deck, and the horses, the steam engine that moves the grain, etc. - so cool.

I weigh my water in kg at the start of brewing, which nearly equates to liters. I then use a ruler to estimate the volume of pre-boil wort, converting depth/diameter into gallons. I take the difference, which gives me absorption. It is nearly always 0.12, but I've had the occasional anomaly.

For BIAB with an aggressive squeeze, which I never do anymore, it's around 0.07 gal/lb. For a moderate squeeze, 0.09, then in the range from 0.1-0.15 for gravity drain, depending on how patient one is.

 

[rjs3273]

Hook Norton: I thought it looked rather familiar. I have driven by but never been in.

And thanks for your numbers.

 

[wepeeler]

Thanks everyone. This gives me lots of confidence and hope.

I actually use a corona crusher. I've since modifed it to work with a power tool, so it's really not a big deal for crushing. Assuming that the credit-card method won't work with a grill like this, I'll just have to adjust it just right and let it go. I'm certain I can crush the grain really well with this crusher. I can also use the mill at the home brew store, which is more of a barly-specific mill.

For now, I'm going to attempt to BIAB with a 15G kettle since I already ordered a bag for it. I should be fine for the next several months. Spring/summer is coming which means beers in the 5-6.2% range. Eventually, I'll move up to a 20G kettle, Aren't those much more than $100? Keep in mind I boil on propane...not electric. It's going to need a pretty sturdy bottom.

The "unknown" for me is what should be my max grain lb for a double batch in a 15G kettle in order to not do any splarging.

Don't worry about getting a 20 gallon kettle for now. I have a 15 gallon SS Brewtech that I do 11 gallon batches on all the time. The only limit is the amount of grain you want to use. Say you want to brew a BIG beer (10% imperial stout). Calculate how much grain you want to use, and then adjust the top up/sparge water. I'm still getting between 72-79% efficiency, although it does go down with much larger grain bills. I haven't done a double batch of a beer that big, but I consistently do 11 gallon batches of beer up to 1.070. Last 1.070 beer I brewed I used 29 pounds of grain. Mashed with 11 gallons, sparged through the bag with about 3.5 gallons. Ended up with 11 gallons of wort into fermenters. Once you get a couple batches under your belt, you can adjust easily. It's about knowing your equipment.

 

[fendersrule]

Good to know. I know doing double batch "medium to high" beers is doable in a 15 gallon Kettle, but man, it would be nice to have a larger kettle to just set it, forget it, forget sparging, and just feel like a boss and be able to brew any beer. I still like my 15G kettle and will still use it for experimental stuff, but I think I convinced myself that 20G is just more ideal.

For sure, mashing 29 lbs of grain in a 15G kettle will be tight as hell. Yep, you'll have to lower your grain to water ratio to even make that work. But 72-79% efficiency is perfect-o. I can still use my 15G kettle for this as I have some fine very large hemp bags that I can still use in the interim. I just didn't think that having BIAB.com make me a brew bag for my 15G kettle was cost effective until I get the ideal kettle.

Got my Cereal killer today. Set it consistently at .023" all the way through. The cereal killer seems like a nice unit, and it's much easier to handle and carry than a Corona mill is. I already donated that to a friend for his adventures in brewing! The cereal killer allows the grain to just fall right into the bucket for pouring into the kettle. With the corona grill, you have to transfer grain from a pan...or you waste some time, money, effort building a contraption that takes up more space and looks ugly as sin. I'm glad I gave up my Corona mill, and I haven't even used this thing yet but I know I will be very happy with it.

The hopper is easily 2-3x the capacity of a corona mill hopper too.

 

[fendersrule]

I'm also........hung...and ready. Problem is, I have 25G of beer/cider in bottles that need to be drank. I'm preparing pretty quickly though...need to figure out a good next recipe....