I seem to be having an issue with my wine souring over time or remaining a bit sour. I just opened a blackberry that is a year old. Now I can say it wasn't very good to start but I could usually stomach it enough to drink the whole bottle. Now I can't bring myself to drink itm it's always been hot and that's one thing but now I feel it's way to sour. I did not use any kind of stabilizer or any chemical ingredients like Camden tabs or anything. Frankly I wanted to not use those just out of personal preference. But not sure that's my problem or not. I see the recipe on this site for blackberry by yooper and is not calling for anything before bottling. I'm asking what do I do to prevent this souring on bottle. I have changed some of my technique. One thing is I'm using different yeast for fruit based wines. Also, I'm leaving my wines alone for at least 6 months before bottling. I feel like I got a pretty decent pinot and a new blackberry downstairs right now bulk aging and I surely dont want to have them go bad after bottling. Does anyone use stabilizer? Does anyone not use anything and if so am I doing something wrong? What's a good stabilizer to use should I choose to use one.
My blackberry wine spur after a year
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Well, fruit wines don't age well compared to a big tannic red wine. Sulfites, even a tiny bit like 40-50 ppm, would really help preserve the wine if you want to save it more than about 6 months or so.
Most recipes don't remind you to add sulfites, as it's generally just part of the racking/bottling routine with winemaking.
Most recipes don't remind you to add sulfites, as it's generally just part of the racking/bottling routine with winemaking.
What sulfites do I add and when?? I usually like to do sparkalloid when getting close to bottling. I plan bottling the pinot in july. That'll be six month mark. I planned to use sparkalloid next month then rack off and allow to sit for a month, then bottle.
Sulfites are generally added at every other racking and at bottling. The amount is one crushed campden tablet per gallon, or 1/4 teaspoon of the pure potassium metabisulfite power per 6 gallons. This approximates 50 ppm, but without a meter it's just a best guestimate. Since they dissipate, they are generally added at intervals like that, and at bottling.
Sulfites are an antioxidant and preservative, so when racking it helps by binding to the wine so oxygen can't, and then in the bottle it prevents microbes from infecting/contaminating the wine during aging as well as preventing oxidation.
It's probably just that most fruit wines don't age well anyway, and combining that with not adding any sulfites at all means the wine will have a very limited shelf life.
It could be microbes, or just that you don't like very dry fruit wines also.
So I can buy Camden tabs and just add one per gallon? It's that simple? I thought Camden tabs were used to kill wild yeast? Well heres what I did for batch 1. I used berries, sugar, pectic enzyme, 1 can of grape juice concentrate and then AMH yeast. That and the stoppers I had at the time gave off a lot of rubber that I really feel permeated the wine bc I can still smell that smell. I don't think the AMH was a good match at all for the berries. Batch #2 I did different. I didn't add the grape concentrate and I had new stoppers that didn't smell at all and I used sweet mead yeast. This batch tasted 100% better. I do like the sweet flavor and so I really don't want it to go bad in the bottle. So should I add a Camden at the next racking and then again at bottling? I believe I have one or maybe two rackings left.
Yes, it's that simple! Just crushed them, in a little water or a sample of the wine, pour that into a carboy and rack your wine into it.
"Rubber stopper smell" is often bacterial contamination. If you didn't campden/sulfite your berries, that is likely the cause and not the yeast strain.
If you want to sweeten your finished wine, at the last racking, add sorbate (1/2 teaspoon per gallon) along with the campden to the liquid and then rack the wine into it. Let sit a few days, and then sweeten the batch to taste. Let sit a few days to ensure no fermentation restarts from the added sugar, then bottle.
Ok. Thank you. But the rubber smell is the same smell as those terruble stoppers I had. I mean you could smell the rubber and then I could smell it in the wine. My new batch doesn't really have that. Also, now listen to this. I am so disappointed over this wine that I opened another 1.5 liter. Figured the heck with it if the wine sucks. But this bottle isn't that bad. Now what the heck.
bernardsmith
Well-Known Member
Sometimes fruit wines do need backsweetening to balance the acidity that comes from the fruit... Do you know the pH of this wine?
jgmillr1
Well-Known Member
For starters, please define what you mean by souring. Do you mean that the wine is turning into vinegar or that it is no longer as sweet as when you bottled it which is perceived as being sour (more acidic) and possibly carbonated?
If you are getting vinegar, you are doomed. Keep it for cooking or marinading if you have a use for it. If it is not vinegar and just tart (sour), then sugar can help restore the sweet&sour balance back to the wine.
However, you *must* you stabilizers to keep your wine from going bad. You need to add sulfites at various times during the process to prevent oxidation and beat down bacteria. As Yooper already said, Campden tablets are an easy pre-measured dose of sulfites. We can help you with timing the doses on your next batch if you are not sure. You also need to add sorbate if you are going to have a sweet wine. This prevents any remaining yeasts from growing and converting your sweetening sugar into alcohol while carbonating your wine (or blowing out the cork) with CO2.
Note that Sparkaloid is a fining agent to clarify the wine, not a preservative.
jgmillr1
Well-Known Member
Sulfites in Campden tablets serve to prevent oxidation and kill off bacteria. It also will kill off most wild yeasts since the wine yeasts we use are selected to be tolerant to sulfites. You should definitely add the crushed Campden tablets at the both racking and bottling. Be sure to add sorbate to prevent refermentation when you back-sweeten the wine.
Are you storing your wine in glass carboys? Are you using stoppers you get at your homebrew store with airlocks? I've never had trouble with my stoppers imparting aromas to the wine and some of mine go back 30 years. Besides, they really should never even be in substantial contact with your wine anyway even if you fill up the container all the way up the neck.
Idk what to tell you about the stoppers thar I had. They clearly had a terrible rubber smell and yes I use glass and yes I have multiple airlocks. I have since thtown those away of course but I truly belive that smell somehow got into the wine aroma. It's virtually the same smell. I do not backsweeten. The pinot made (first attempt) I used AMH and I like the flavor. This new batch of blackberry and the watermelon I used sweet mead and I feel the blackberry tas tea good right now as far as sweetness and the watermelon...well I didn't use Camden tabs so the las bottle I opened at 4 months bottle age I feel it's souring. That and I only bulk aged it 2 months before bottling so it carbonated. I plan on trying it again in august, this time using camden tabs at every other racking. When do you use it when you make the wine? I was planning on getting the juice and fruit and adding camden, wait 12 hrs and then adding pectic enzyme, wait 12 hrs then add the yeast. I though that's how I read it on jack keller website
So with responding to this thread I decided to open a bottle of the watermelon I did. It's 5 months in bottle. Its extremely carbonated and sour. I poured it into a carafe and added 1 tbls to the 750ml and the taste definitely improved. So pretty much the wines I've done so far by not adding camden tabs or anything have soured or are souring? ?? Correct?
I also do not test for acid levels and follow a recipe that says add so much acid blend per gallon. Could that be causing my wine to taste sour? Adding to much acid or maybe I didn't even need to add it in some cases. What do I need to test acid? A titration kit??
Yes, it sounds that it wasn't done fermenting if it's carbonated, but if it's carbonated and sour, it sounds like contamination.
Really, contamination. How do I prevent that? I followed all that I could think of. Washed and sanitized bottles, sanitized syphon, I think I sanitized my corks by rolling them around in some star san before corking. I sanitize my bottling bucket. I mean I try to sanitize everything. Is there a bether faster drying sanitizing agent than star san? I feel like it takes too long to air dry
I'm not due to rack the blackberry until 6/10 and the pinot on 6/24 that'll be 60 days since last racking. I feel there's no use in adding camden to the blackberry but what about the pinot? Should I just wait until next scheduled racking? Hope it's still as good as it was 2 months ago and add camden then?
You can add it at any time. Just crush the tablets, dissolve in a little water, and add.
Hmm ok. We'll maybe I should add it now and add on a month of sitting time. But would that chage the addition of it at the next racking? Meaning if I add now then rack 30 days from now or on schedule do I not add the camden; but wait till next racking or bottling in order to follow every other racking?
jgmillr1
Well-Known Member
You should add the sulfites now for sure (1 crushed tablet per gallon). It is a good idea to top off sulfites every time you rack the wine, using about 1/3 tablet per gallon, to provide continued protection against oxidation and bacteria.
Let me ask...I added the cam den (1 per gal) and now I can see little particles in my pinot where I didn't see anything in it before. Should I be concerned? The pinot looked pretty clean before and since I've added the camden it now has particulates at top. Man I hope I didn't contaminate it.
did you crush and dissolve the tablets well? If the tablets weren't dissolved first, that's the particulate.
They do the same thing. The difference is the potassium sulfite has potassium, while the sodium version has sodium in it. They are equally effective, and do the exact same thing. My preference is to not add sodium, but it doesn't really matter.
jgmillr1
Well-Known Member
And the TTB does not allow the sodium metabisulfite formulation to be commercially used due to the sodium, which is why wineries use potassium metabisulfite. I believe all campden tablets use the sodium version.
No, you can easily buy campden tablets made of KMS.
Can I add camden at a racking then 3 weeks later add it again when I bottle? The schedule that I have has me racking, adding sparkalloid, waiting a week, rack off sparkalloid and adding camden (bc this would be 2nd racking) then about 3 weeks later bottling to which I'd want to add camden tab to bottling bucket. Can I do that? And as for a blackberry wine that is naturally sweeter bc I used sweet mead yeast, should I add sorbate before bottling
How do I backsweeten and use sorbate? My pinot seems to be leaning towards the sour side. Can't seem to get this right. Two months ago the wine taste just right. Imo. Now has more sour taste. So I'm gonna want to backsweeten. How do I do that? I'll use corn sugar. I have a package from a beer kit.
