So I've been brewing for about a year now, and over the past 3 or 4 months, all of my beers that I've made in my new apartment have turned sour before bottling. I recently made a breakfast stout and tried it at 2 weeks in the primary and it tasted great, but I just tried it today at 4 weeks and it was sour. It's in a glass carboy that I always take a good amount of time cleaning with starsan after using it. I'm wondering if the issue is the air in the closet that I let the beers ferment in as opposed to the equipment. It's frustrating and I don't want to keep getting ruined batches. I may try using a different room altogether for fermentation and only using my glass carboys, but any advice would be helpful.
My beers are turning sour and I don't know what to do
- Thread starter Hookem86
- Start date
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Clean with starsan? Starsan is a sanitizer only, not a cleaner.
Sour means one of 2 things, infection or low pH due to seriously over acidifying your mash.
My money is on infection. Did you take gravity readings at 2 weeks and 4 weeks?
Yeah I took gravity readings for my breakfast stout at 2 and 4 weeks, both the same gravity, it had just turned sour when I checked at 4 weeks. The pale ale that I was making at the same time was in the closet as well, and I tried it today at 2 weeks when I was planning on bottling and it was sour...
make sure all the materials that come in contact with the cooled wort, yeast and finished product are sanitized: fermentation vessels, hoses, racking canes, thermometers, wine thief, bottles, caps, etc. if you are making yeast starters, make sure all that stuff is sanitized. if using yeast packets, make sure the outside of those are sanitized, as is the scissors you use to cut it open. don't dump gravity samples back into the fermentor. lots of chances for nasties to get in there.
the room your in could be a source. is this the same room you have always used? anything change in there recently (e.g. water intrusion from the exterior)?
the room your in could be a source. is this the same room you have always used? anything change in there recently (e.g. water intrusion from the exterior)?
Starsan cleans - see this thread for before and after pictures.
Breweries use Phosphoric/Nitric acid blend for cleaning (Starsan is mostly Phosphoric acid)
my guess is also an infection - soak your glass carboy over night full of warm water and a cup of beach and rinse with water and starsan before using it again. Carefully clean and sanitize everything you use on the wort post-boil.
Try a new case of bottles - could be an infection in the bottles?
Good input!
just saw you didn't have this problem before moving into your new place. could be some funky air in there (e.g. carpets that got wet and dried out, etc.)
If the gravity readings were exactly the same between not sour and sour then it might not be an infection.
Are you doing anything to your water before mashing?
Are you doing anything to your water before mashing?
Why are you sanitizing before storage?
Better to
- Clean
- Store as needed
- Sanitize
- Use for cold side application in brewing
Sanitize and store just means you have to sanitize again before using. Work smart not hard
Items ready on brewday for contact with cooled wort.
I recently ordered a new bottling bucket, got new tubes and spigots for the ported carboys, also used IO StarSan as my local homebrew store suggested as an extra step in cleaning my plastic ported bubbler. I had my pale in the newly cleaned plastic bubbler using new tubes to get it in there. Was gonna use my new bottling bucket, but both of my beers were already sour out of the carboys. All of the beers that I have brewed in this apartment that I've had fermenting in that closet have turned sour, so it may have already had some sort of infection in there when I moved in
No, I haven't been doing anything to it before mashing. I've read about balancing pH but haven't tried to do that. Would that cause souring?
BreezyBrew
IPA is my spirit animal
What yeast are you using? And what are the FG's? Are they in normal range?
GavinC is correct in that you should be sanitizing immediately before using your equipment, not before storage. Are you sanitizing a second time right before putting beer in them?
If sanitation is not the issue, I would try making a batch with reverse osmosis filtered water from walmart or safeway.
If it's not an infection, the most likely culprit for a low pH is something funky going on with your water, and since you are in a new apartment your water is likely coming from a different water source than before.
The room shouldn't be able to transfer an infection to your beer if there's an airlock on it filled with star san solution.
Seriously over acidifying your mash or sparge water could cause souring.
Yeasts have been different types, all White Labs, some using starters. And yeah the FG's have all pretty much ended in a good range, pretty much what I've expected them to be
if you are sanitizing before use (not storage) and still getting souring, sure looks like the room itself or just a case of bad luck that your equipment went to pot right when you moved in. seems like that would have to be one funky room to pick up nasties in the air in the brief moments when the beer is exposed to the atmosphere.
I have a question that is process related.
The beer goes right into a carboy once it's brewed? And it stays there until you check the SG at 2 weeks, and it's done(?). Then you let it sit in the same carboy for another two weeks and it's sour?
To me that points to some headspace in the fermenter, since it's fine until you open it two weeks later and then it's not ok.
Is there some reason you're checking the SG, but not bottling the beer?
The beer goes right into a carboy once it's brewed? And it stays there until you check the SG at 2 weeks, and it's done(?). Then you let it sit in the same carboy for another two weeks and it's sour?
To me that points to some headspace in the fermenter, since it's fine until you open it two weeks later and then it's not ok.
Is there some reason you're checking the SG, but not bottling the beer?
Yeah I definitely sanitize everything before using it, I guess I'm just adding an unnecessary step with sanitizing after cleaning. I appreciate that info about the water and I think I may just need to use store-bought water to see if that does anything. Would the infection be able to come into the carboy in the 20 seconds or so that the airlock was off to get the sample? I was using a sanitized thief.
I tested it at 2 weeks as I wanted to make sure it was fermenting as it needed to, but I wanted it to primary for at least a month, then secondary. I had previously had a ferment stop on me, which I had to throw some nutrient in there, so I'm a little paranoid about my bigger beers now not completely fermenting. I had done this previously for a beer or two that did not turn sour at all so I figured that wouldn't be much of an issue.
I've never had that happen with multiple gravity samples on a batch, but that's not to say its impossible.
Yooper also makes a good point as always ^
how big of a beer are we talking about here?
OG was 1.108
:cross:
aside from the batch with the stuck fermentation, have you successfully made a beer this big before? if yes, did it take as much time to ferment out (4 weeks)? what temps are you fermenting at?
Nope, by far my biggest beer that I've attempted. The other ones I've done here have been around 1.07 or so and turned sour as well while living here
1.028
I've had two batches go sour on me since Sept. I believe it's ph problem that I'm having...I've got four fermenters full now and won't brew anymore till I get myself educated on water treatment...good luck with your brewing
I really appreciate the responses. After reading this I'm hoping that the water is the issue as that is an easy fix, although I know I also should probably just be patient and let my beers ferment and just change them to secondary or bottle once I check them. I think I'll do a cheap recipe that I've made before and use store-bought water for the brew to see if that works better.
brrman
Well-Known Member
infection does not = undrinkable. It won't hurt you, just might not taste the way you want it to. It might taste too bad to drink, but it's not a health hazard
ah, water. new apartment can also mean new water, especially if transitioning between city and well water.
undrinkable is subjective but it's probably not poison. i don't think you beer is souring because of water ph, you probably have some source of infection somewhere in your brew/fermentation space.
Any suggestion on how to get it out of the fermentation space?
I doubt it's water PH either, the water companies have to keep the PH in a certain range, if anything U bet your PH is on the high side and since you are brewing a dark beer that will actually help lower the PH.
Due to the hard water in my area the water companies have to heavily treat the water which ends up having a PH of 8.0.
I'm with those who feel it's an infection. If you are fermenting in plastic how old are the fermenters? When you are pitching the yeast is it from a starter or direct from a package? Are you sanitizing the yeast container before pitching?
Due to the hard water in my area the water companies have to heavily treat the water which ends up having a PH of 8.0.
I'm with those who feel it's an infection. If you are fermenting in plastic how old are the fermenters? When you are pitching the yeast is it from a starter or direct from a package? Are you sanitizing the yeast container before pitching?
I have 5 and 6.5 gallon plastic big mouth bubblers that are around 6 months old or so. I know that's not too old, but I think at this point it would be smart to get new ones and ferment elsewhere. When I do starters, I sanitize everything involved. When not using starters, I always use white labs yeast so I pour directly from the vial.
Just to clarify the water pH itself is inconsequential, the dissolved ions in the water are what really affect the pH and if you have a water softener in your new place it is also adding things to your water.
I don't want to start and argument with all you infection proponents, but doesn't an infection seem unlikely if the FG is 1.028 both before and after souring and stable for 2 weeks?
I don't want to start and argument with all you infection proponents, but doesn't an infection seem unlikely if the FG is 1.028 both before and after souring and stable for 2 weeks?
flars
Well-Known Member
When you draw your SG sample at two weeks do you spray the airlock, bung and top of the carboy with Starsan solution? When you say your fermentors are in a closet, I think of a clothes closet. Is there anything above your fermentors that gets moved to put dust in the air?
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