Mr Beer advanced tips

[wolfej50]

The advantage of Mr. Beer is that it is dirt simple. It can give the novice brewer confidence that he/she can brew a good beer. Once the written instructions are mastered, though, it seems that the quality and consistency of the beer could be improved by going beyond the written instructions, although it does add some complexity. Here are some things I'm going to try (in no particular order) and I'd love to hear other thoughts.
1. rehydrate the yeast. There is probably plenty of the dried yeast to compensate for any die-off due to pitching directly into the wort, but I've read multiple times that rehydrating is better.
2. use a bottling bucket. A bottling bucket helps by allowing you to pour off the beer leaving the spent yeast behind. In addition, you can mix the priming sugar into the bucket in bulk rather than each individual bottle.
3. froth the wort. Before adding the yeast, use a hand mixer (blades properly sanitized, of course) to induce a lot of air into the wort. This will help the yeast get stonger sooner before starting on the sugars.
4. cold crash the fermenter. Before bottling, placing the LBK into a refridgerator for a couple of days will cause some of the less desirable particulates to drop out before bottling.

Any other ideas or corrections?

 

[jethro55]

By no means am I at the advanced stage, but I'll add a thought or two.

1. Hydrating dry yeast is an issue for a number of reasons, some of which are pretty complex. Some dry yeasts specifically say not to do so. Temperatures for it are very, very important if you do - it is a little tricky. The bottom line seems to be that fermentation speed is faster by a day or so. And the beer quality is generally accepted as the same.
Yeast starters are more in the mainstream.

2. yes - bottling bucket and siphon. I'd consider it a basic need, rather than advanced.

3. many would agree and many others just use the agitation of the pour and a brisk frothing with the brew paddle to suffice. Advanced brewers would say to get an oxygen tank and infuse the wort with it.

4. lots of brewers use cold crash to improve clearing. Many have such clean ferments that is is not needed. Finings are often added in the last 15 minutes of the boil for many. And many use secondary for that.

For myself, advancing beyond beginner has to do with the details of the processes for preparing/boiling the wort and hop/spice/fruit/zest additions whether it be extract or all grain. Things like how much to add and when, how long to boil, how long to stand after flameout, hop bursting, hop tea, and dry/wet hop. So much to try learn.

 

[RM-MN]

1. Research has shown that spreading the dry yeast directly onto the wort can kill up to half the yeast cells. Rehydrating avoids this by letting the yeast absorb water without the malt sugars. It really isn't hard and only takes a few minutes.

2. Putting sugar into each individual bottle can lead to uneven carbonation as it is difficult to measure each small amount. I'd use a bottling bucket and bulk prime. This also gives a space for the bit of yeast to settle out.

3. If you properly rehydrate the dry yeast you don't need to aerate the wort as the dry yeast is packaged with all it needs for reproduction. Liquid yeast doesn't have this so it does need aeration.

4. Cold crashing causes the beer to clear as it helps to get the yeast to settle out. Time does the same thing without tying up refrigerator space. I like to leave my beer in the fermenter 3 to 4 weeks or sometimes even longer.

 

[KepowOb]

I'm curious as to what brands of dry yeast say not to rehydrate them. When you say that generally it speeds up fermentation by 24 hours by rehydrating, that is a good thing, not just a side benefit. While fermentation can take a long time to show visible signs, generally it only takes a long time when there is an issue (old yeast, under pitching, temp problems, etc.). You don't have to hydrate dry yeast, just like you don't need to make a starter with liquid yeast. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it though.

As far as oxygenation... If your going to use liquid yeast, this is a must. With dry yeast... Well, I still do it, but apparently it's not needed (according to the manufacturers). I don't know the exact science of it, but I also believe its the same reason you shouldn't make a starter with dry yeast.


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[boydster]

I like the steps you have outlined so far. Here is what I would add.

Temperature control: The temp strip Mr. Beer gives out aren't very precise, yet fermentation temperature has a huge impact on the flavor of the beer. A fridge with a digital temperature controller (STC-1000 or similar) is ideal, but even just using a swamp cooler can greatly improve your temperature control and minimize fluctuations. Keep the fermentation temperature at the lower end of the ideal range for the yeast you are using.

Yeast choice: Try a different yeast. Dry yeasts of many types are available. Also, due to the small batch size you can likely use liquid yeast without getting into more advanced processes like making a yeast starter; you can just directly pitch the liquid yeast from the package.

Get a bottling wand and a short piece of tubing to attach it to the spigot on your new bottling bucket. It makes filling bottles easy, and automatically leaves the perfect amount of headspace.

 

[jethro55]

I'm curious as to what brands of dry yeast say not to rehydrate them. When you say that generally it speeds up fermentation by 24 hours by rehydrating, that is a good thing, not just a side benefit. While fermentation can take a long time to show visible signs, generally it only takes a long time when there is an issue (old yeast, under pitching, temp problems, etc.). You don't have to hydrate dry yeast, just like you don't need to make a starter with liquid yeast. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it though.

As far as oxygenation... If your going to use liquid yeast, this is a must. With dry yeast... Well, I still do it, but apparently it's not needed (according to the manufacturers). I don't know the exact science of it, but I also believe its the same reason you shouldn't make a starter with dry yeast.


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Am not sure which ones are not fit for rehydration, but Nottingham and Safale US-05 are indeed OK for rehydration and indeed OK for pitching dry.

And from Fermentis
"As the yeast is grown aerobically, the yeast is less sensitive on first pitch. Aeration is recommended to ensure full mixing of the wort and yeast." So the action recommended is to mix in the yeast. And the aeration that results will surely help them.

 

[boydster]

Am not sure which ones are not fit for rehydration, but Nottingham and Safale US-05 are indeed OK for rehydration and indeed OK for pitching dry.

And from Fermentis
"As the yeast is grown aerobically, the yeast is less sensitive on first pitch. Aeration is recommended to ensure full mixing of the wort and yeast." So the action recommended is to mix in the yeast. And the aeration that results will surely help them.

Check out Sean Terrill's experiments with rehydrating US-05 in water vs. wort. You'll see that a very large percentage of the yeast cells die upon hitting the wort if not rehydrated in water first. It will still ferment the beer, but you are starting with a smaller, more stressed population.

 

[rodwha]

I've never seen that when using dry yeast the wort doesn't need to be aerated.

I use a whisk for aeration. Quick and simple.

I've seen that the newer Mr Beer kits no longer come with booster. When "brewing" these I had swapped that out for DME in a 20 min boil adding hops at 20 and 5 mins, and splitting US-05 between two of these. I also boosted them to 2.5 gals, about the max it can handle with an average ABV (up to mid 5%).

Skitter on this forum built a small fermentation chamber that works very well. It uses frozen water bottles. I don't use the spigot when submerging these in a tub of water.

 

[Demus]

By no means am I at the advanced stage, but I'll add a thought or two.

1. Hydrating dry yeast is an issue for a number of reasons, some of which are pretty complex. Some dry yeasts specifically say not to do so. Temperatures for it are very, very important if you do - it is a little tricky. The bottom line seems to be that fermentation speed is faster by a day or so. And the beer quality is generally accepted as the same.
Yeast starters are more in the mainstream.

I don't get what's tricky about warming a cup of water to 100-105 degrees, sprinkling the yeast on it and waiting 15 minutes. As for the beer quality being the same, I certainly don't accept that as fact. The sooner the ferment starts the less time for other beasties to get to work on the wort. Also, depending on the volume and gravity of the batch, killing half your dry yeast when pitching directly might result in under pitching, which absolutely effects flavor and quality. The bottom line is the yeast manufacturers designed dry yeast for simplicity, so of course they say rehydration isn't a NECESSARY step. In brewing though, there are tons of things we can do to improve quality and/or reduce the risk of various problems that aren't necessary, and rehydrating dry yeast is one of them.


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[jethro55]

Demus,
Good point - there sure is a lot of information out there on that subject. It is just one of those issues that will remain like so many other choices for techniques. Cooking is pretty simple, and she burns dinner pretty often. I guess this is one of those things where you have to pay attention to detail. Even thermometer handling/sanitation on this one.

 

[boydster]

I've never seen that when using dry yeast the wort doesn't need to be aerated.

It's true. The yeast use oxygen to help build cell walls. In dry yeast, the yeast comes packaged with the sterols necessary to serve that function (assuming you don't underpitch). It doesn't hurt to aerate though, and it can be an added insurance if you accidentally underpitch.

From Danstar:

I always aerate my wort when using liquid yeast. Do I need to aerate the wort before pitching dry yeast?

No, there is no need to aerate the wort but it does not harm the yeast either. During its aerobic production, dry yeast accumulates sufficient amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols to produce enough biomass in the first stage of fermentation. The only reason to aerate the wort when using wet yeast is to provide the yeast with oxygen so that it can produce sterols and unsaturated fatty acids which are important parts of the cell membrane and therefore essential for biomass production.

If the slurry from dry yeast fermentation is re-pitched from one batch of beer to another, the wort has to be aerated as with any liquid yeast.

 

[wolfej50]

What I'm getting from this discussion is that hydrating the yeast is a good thing, but different yeasts have different temperature requirements for the process. This makes the unlabeled yeast included with Mr. Beer LMEs problematic. So, it might be better to get a named yeast compatible with the desired style to use instead of the unlabeled gold packet. Definitely more trouble, but may pay off with a better product. Does this sound like a fair summary?

 

[rodwha]

Isn't 100-105* a bit too warm for dry yeast?

I've always aimed for the 80's.

 

[rodwha]

Indeed it is thought of as better to replace the yeast with a better one. The problem is that there aren't properly sized yeast packs that I'm aware of, so you either need to make two batches or save the other half and brew again in a week or two.

Maybe you can try a standard as is Mr beer batch to one you used something like US-05 to compare the flavors.

 

[KepowOb]

Isn't 100-105* a bit too warm for dry yeast?

I've always aimed for the 80's.

Yeah, I do believe that's hot. Dans tar recommends 30-35C, which is something like 85-90F. Fermentis calls for a bit lower, 75-85Fish.


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[boydster]

100° is actually an ideal temperature for S. Cerevesia. You won't hurt yeast at that temp

 

[Demus]

Yeah, I do believe that's hot. Dans tar recommends 30-35C, which is something like 85-90F. Fermentis calls for a bit lower, 75-85Fish.


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I think you might be confusing fermentation temps with rehydrating temps


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[rodwha]

From Fermentis for ale yeasts including their Belgian:

"Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 27°c ± 3°C (80°F ± 6°F)."

And for their lager yeasts:
"Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 23°c ± 3°C (73°F ± 6°F)."

 

[rodwha]

From Fermentis US-05:

"Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 27°c ± 3°C (80°F ± 6°F)."

 

[boydster]

From published research on yeast strains, including brewer's yeast:

http://aem.asm.org/content/77/7/2292.full

90°F is just about optimal and 113° is the maximum for growth to occur for ale yeast. That means the cells are quite happy between those temps (less so as you approach the max or go below the optimum temp). Again, hydrating in 100° water will not harm the yeast.

 

[rodwha]

"S. cerevisiae was the yeast best adapted to grow at high temperatures within the Saccharomyces genus, with the highest optimum (32.3°C) and maximum (45.4°C) growth temperatures."

Though it may tolerate higher temps this research showed that this strain's (the most tolerant) had an optimal peak temp of 90.1* F.

 

[Demus]

We're not talking about growing yeast at the high temperature, just rehydrating it. Growth will occur during the lag phase of your fermentation at the appropriate fermentation temperature well after you rehydrated, and subsequently pitched the yeast...


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[rodwha]

If temps over 100* are near it's restrictions would that be good for it though? Wouldn't it be best to stay within it's optimal parameters? Why put stressed yeast into a normal situation and hope for great things?

 

[Demus]

If temps over 100* are near it's restrictions would that be good for it though? Wouldn't it be best to stay within it's optimal parameters? Why put stressed yeast into a normal situation and hope for great things?

The optimal parameters you are referring to are fermentation temperatures. This is where yeast makes the best tasting beer. They absolutely still function much warmer, they just produce funky, sometimes nasty tasting beer. You don't ferment beer at 105 degrees. You rehydrate dried yeast for 15 minutes in 105 degree water BEFORE pitching into wort that is cooled to proper fermentation temperature. This increases the cell count of the pitch by preventing the die off caused by direct pitching. This May or may not have an effect on your final beer depending on other factors such as batch size and gravity. Does this help clarify the matter?


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[rodwha]

None of Whitelabs Belgian yeast claim an optimum temp over 80*.

Wyeast has 3724 Belgian saison that's highest optimal temp is 95*, and 3736 Roeselare ale that's optimal temp is 85*. All the rest are 80* or below.

I'd always stick by the yeast manufacturer's temp recommendations, which, outside of those 2, are under 80* and nowhere near 100*+. Even the study showed an optimal temp for one of the yeasts, the most temp tolerant, as 90*. Why would anyone want to go outside of a manufacturer's or a study's optimal range?

I can brew beer using US-05 at 85*, but I doubt it would hold a candle to the same beer brewed at the manufacturer's optimal temp.

 

[Demus]

Did you even read my post? Rehydrating and fermenting are totally different...


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[boydster]

Clayton Cone, from Lallemand (makers of Danstar yeast) says the following:

Every strain of yeast has its own optimum rehydration temperature - all of them range between 95 F to
105F (most of them closer to 105°F). The dried yeast cell wall is fragile and it is the first few minutes
(possibly seconds) of rehydration that the warm temperature is critical while it is reconstituting its cell wall
structure. As you drop the initial temperature of the water from 95 to 85 or 75 or 65F the yeast leached out
more and more of its insides damaging the each cell.

Chris White says the same thing in Yeast.

You are confusing optimum fermentation temperature (which is manipulating the yeast to achieve a particular flavor profile and has nothing to do with the temperature the yeast thrive at) with hydration temperature.

 

[boydster]

Even the wikipedia entry on rehydrating freeze dried yeast calls for temperatures up to 40 C (the one I'll link is related to wine making, but it's the same type of yeast).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast_in_winemaking#Re-hydrating_freeze_dried_yeast_cultures

Similarly, re-hydration procedures will also vary depending on the manufacturer and winery. Yeast is often inoculated in a volume or water or grape must that is 5–10 times the weight of the dry yeast. This liquid is often brought to temperature of 40°C (104°F) prior to the introduction of the yeast (though some yeast strains may need temperatures below 38°C (100°F)[1]) to allow the cells to disperse easily rather than clump and sink to the bottom of the container. The heat activation also allows the cells to quickly reestablish their membrane barrier before soluble cytoplasmic components escape the cell. Re-hydration at lower temperatures can greatly reduce the viability of the yeast with up to 60% cell death if the yeast is re-hydrated at 15°C (60°F). The culture is then stirred and aerated to incorporate oxygen into the culture which the yeast uses in the synthesis of needed survival factors.

This isn't rocket science, and certainly hydrating at 80* isn't really all that harmful, but to assert that hydrating at 100* is hurting the yeast is wrong.

 

[wolfej50]

I just bottled my second batch of Mr. Beer using a bottling bucket I bought from a local home brew supplier. I noticed that my first batch (without the bucket) was inconsistent between bottles wrt carbonation. We'll see in a couple of weeks whether the bucket helped. Bottling did go faster since I didn't have to add priming suger to each individual bottle (just to the bucket). Further, I didn't have to worry about that last bottle getting drub from the fermenter.

 

[wolfej50]

Question on the yeast hydration issue. I gather that hydration is best around the 100 degree range (while actual growth and fermentation are at lower temps). Of course, after a boil, you want to cool down the wort to fermentation temps. But during the cool-down it will of course pass through the 'hydration' optimal temp. Would there be a benefit to adding yeast at that temp, before it reaches the final fermentation temp?

 

[boydster]

I usually attemperate the hydrated yeast slurry by adding small amounts of chilled wort to bring the yeast to within 10°F of the wort (sometimes 2 or 3 small wort additions). Since I do a lot of no-chill batches, it can take a while to get from 100° to 65°, so adding the yeast before the wort is chilled would work against me. Even when I use my chiller, I still follow the same process - chill completely, hydrate yeast, use wort to slowly bring yeast temp down to pitching temp.

 

[Demus]

The small amount(about 2/3 cup) of 100-105 degree water used to rehydrate yeast cools off in the 15 minutes it takes the yeast to absorb it. There really shouldn't be much temperature differential by the time you pitch it....


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[boydster]

Often, that is the case. I've been pitching at 58-60 with Notty on a few batches lately, and ambient temps are in the 80's so my yeast only cools so much before it needs a little help.

 

[wolfej50]

I had my first taste of my second Mr. Beer batch, a Czech Pilsner. I had added a bottling bucket to simplify adding priming suger and eliminating drub in my 'last' bottles. Not crazy about the taste, tho. My thinking is that I made a mistake by allowing the LBK to stream into the bucket in the open air, thus exposing it to a lot of oxygen before bottling. In the next batch, a Mr. Beer American Porter, I plan on attaching a tube to the Mr. Beer spigot (and be less agressive on mixing the sugar into the beer).

 

[wolfej50]

My next batch will be a scaled down extract recipe. Is there a problem with using an entire packet or vial of yeast in a small batch. Won't the excess yeast die off? Or do I need to scale down the yeast as well?

 

[boydster]

If you dissolve the sugar in hot/boiling water, then add it to the bucket, then siphon the beer on top of it gently, the sugar solution will mix very well on its own. If you can pick up an autosiphon, they are pretty inexpensive and very helpful on bottling day. Also, if you don't already have one, a bottling wand is invaluable and also inexpensive.

 

[Kevin79]

My next batch will be a scaled down extract recipe. Is there a problem with using an entire packet or vial of yeast in a small batch. Won't the excess yeast die off? Or do I need to scale down the yeast as well?

Pitch the entire packet/vial. No need to scale down.

 

[wolfej50]

Thanks for the replies. I did get a bottling wand and I'll try dissolving the sugar in water first. Also, thanks for the confirmation on the yeast.

 

[Hello]

I had my first taste of my second Mr. Beer batch, a Czech Pilsner. I had added a bottling bucket to simplify adding priming suger and eliminating drub in my 'last' bottles. Not crazy about the taste, tho. My thinking is that I made a mistake by allowing the LBK to stream into the bucket in the open air, thus exposing it to a lot of oxygen before bottling. In the next batch, a Mr. Beer American Porter, I plan on attaching a tube to the Mr. Beer spigot (and be less agressive on mixing the sugar into the beer).

Keep in mind, perhaps, that a pilsner may not be a beer you like. Most American pilsners that people hand me that they've brewed taste skunked. I have equated this to me not liking the style instead of damning their process of making beer. Maybe it is the same for you.

Thanks for the replies. I did get a bottling wand and I'll try dissolving the sugar in water first. Also, thanks for the confirmation on the yeast.

You must dissolve the sugar in water before bulk priming. Otherwise, you'd have to stir the crud out of that beer and thus oxygenating it.

 

[rodwha]

For now, instead of an auto siphon you could buy a length of tubing that will fit over the spigot to help keep aeration down when transferring. But once you move up from the Mr Beer you'll certainly want the auto siphon.

I still use my Mr Beer LBK once in a while so maybe a length of tubing isn't quite so bad, though you may not use it often enough (cheap as they are) as I see I don't use mine but once to three times a year maybe.