Moving beyond amateur status

[Fishin-Jay]

I've been brewing now for about 5 years. I made about 1/2 dozen extract brews before moving into all grain brewing, and I feel I've got my processes and equipment pretty well dialed in. Still, I consider myself a rank amateur because all I know how to do is follow recipes.

I'd like to begin tweaking recipes, and ultimately designing my own recipes, but I want to make educated decisions rather than simply guessing with my substitutions and ingredient choices.

Can anybody recommend a book or two that I should read? More than anything I'd like to better understand ingredients. For example, I'd love to find something that listed the various malts, hops, and adjuncts and gave a description of what they contribute to the final product in terms of flavor, color, head retention, clarity, etc.

In addition to homebrew I love to cook and when I create a recipe, or look at someone else's recipe, I'm skilled at being able to look at each individual ingredient and know how those spices, meats and vegetables will blend and influence the final meal. I can almost always predict the quality of a meal just by reading the recipe. I'd love to reach that same level of skill in brewing, but I need a stronger education in brewing ingredients.

 

[disney7]

Try "Designing Great Beers" by Ray Daniels:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0937381500/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I think that fits the bill pretty closely for what you are looking for.

 

[Aunt_Ester]

I would suggest Ray Daniel's Designing H

 

[funnycreature]

Try "Designing Great Beers" by Ray Daniels:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0937381500/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I think that fits the bill pretty closely for what you are looking for.

+1!

It gives you a nice overview of different styles. His approach is to analyze beers that made it to the second round of the NHC competition. He draws conclusions to successful recipes this way. Good history background as well.

 

[Aunt_Ester]

Ray Daniels' Designing Great Beers. I would also suggest getting your self a brew app like iBrewMaster or something. It'll help you dial in your numbers better. Other than that make very simple recipes for a while so you can see how the ingredients interact. Start with SMASH recipes and then play with adding specialty grains one recipe at a time.. Come up with a standby recipe and play with different years strains. Et al.

 

[rklinck]

I agree with the "Designing Great Beers" suggestion. I've read it and refer to it regularly. The first section of the book addresses general concepts for creating a recipe. The second part provides information about the typical recipe parameters for various styles of beer.

I think you will want some additional material though. I don't have the book in front of me, but I don't remember it giving a good description of all the malts in the world. That would actually be a pretty daunting task. I think you will ultimately want to find additional resources that delve into the particular ingredients. You might enjoy "For the love of Hops: The Practical Guide to Aroma, Bitterness and the Culture of Hops." I am reading it now and it gives you lots of info about hops (although lots of the info is about history and where they are grown). There is a similar book about yeast: "Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation." That will be my next read.

 

[Fishin-Jay]

I'll add Designing Great Beers to my next Amazon order. Thanks!
Still, it would be interesting to find a reference that at least attempted to describe the characteristics of the most common 25 or so malts, dozen hops, etc. If I ever get any good at this maybe I'll write that reference guide myself...

 

[Denny]

As great a book as DGB is, it's getting old. A lot of the suggestions for recipes, ingredients and techniques would be very different if the book was written these days. That's not to say that there isn't still a lot of good info in it, but you kinda need to filter it through your own knowledge of current techniques and ingredients.

 

[rklinck]

As great a book as DGB is, it's getting old. A lot of the suggestions for recipes, ingredients and techniques would be very different if the book was written these days. That's not to say that there isn't still a lot of good info in it, but you kinda need to filter it through your own knowledge of current techniques and ingredients.

Have the techniques and ingredients for creating a good Pilsner or Dry Stout changed that much since DGB was written? If the original poster is looking to do extreme beers, you are right. If he is looking for guidance on coming up with a great recipes for classic styles, I think DGB is still the bible.

 

[rklinck]

I'll add Designing Great Beers to my next Amazon order. Thanks!
Still, it would be interesting to find a reference that at least attempted to describe the characteristics of the most common 25 or so malts, dozen hops, etc. If I ever get any good at this maybe I'll write that reference guide myself...

The problem is that different sources give you different information about the ingredients. There are basic descriptions in all the starter books (e.g., How to Brew) that describe the general characteristics of the types of malts. There is a general description of about a half dozen base malts and descriptions of some toasted and roasted malts and barley. The problem is that there are SO many malts out there is is next to impossible. That being said, the online brew shops generally provide explanations for what the malt should taste like. Maybe you could put together something for yourself by browsing through these sites.

For hops, the "Hops" book I mentioned has a section that describes a bunch of hops (I've never counted but it seems to contain all the hops you hear mentioned routinely and many you don't). But new varietals are being developed on a continuous basis, so any book on hops will become dated after a few years. But the "Hops" book will give you a description of the vast majority of commercially available hops.

 

[Denny]

Have the techniques and ingredients for creating a good Pilsner or Dry Stout changed that much since DGB was written? If the original poster is looking to do extreme beers, you are right. If he is looking for guidance on coming up with a great recipes for classic styles, I think DGB is still the bible.

Well, take Ofest for example. How many people these days think pale malt and crystal are appropriate for an Ofest? Like I said, there's still good info there, but you have to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[grathan]

I learn more from going back and looking at the recipe sheet while drinking a beer and trying to pick out which ingredients lend which tastes.

 

[Bensiff]

I have a dozen books on brewing, all good for their own reason. But, probably one of the best things I have done over the years is research a style before brewing. I start the process by looking at the BJCP guidelines to see what brews exemplify a style then go and pick up a couple of them. I then start my research by reading multiple sources about the style and then look at multiple recipes to get an idea of what the style is all about, find the common ingredients, and then read about those ingredients individually and research how they apply to the style. Somewhere along the way when I start getting a grasp of what the style is all about I crack open the beer so as I'm reading about the ingredients I'm smelling and tasting them and understanding how they come together in the final product. After a few beers and plenty of google-fu I will have a solid idea of what I'm doing and have built the basis of the recipe...from there it is a matter of brewing it and refining it, sometimes you get lucky and your first attempt is exactly what you are looking for...

 

[rklinck]

I have a dozen books on brewing, all good for their own reason. But, probably one of the best things I have done over the years is research a style before brewing. I start the process by looking at the BJCP guidelines to see what brews exemplify a style then go and pick up a couple of them. I then start my research by reading multiple sources about the style and then look at multiple recipes to get an idea of what the style is all about, find the common ingredients, and then read about those ingredients individually and research how they apply to the style. Somewhere along the way when I start getting a grasp of what the style is all about I crack open the beer so as I'm reading about the ingredients I'm smelling and tasting them and understanding how they come together in the final product. After a few beers and plenty of google-fu I will have a solid idea of what I'm doing and have built the basis of the recipe...from there it is a matter of brewing it and refining it, sometimes you get lucky and your first attempt is exactly what you are looking for...

This is awesome advice for when you are looking to brew an established style (even styles that are not yet BJCP recognized styles like Black IPAs). I find the hardest part is coming up with hybrid recipes that don't fit a single style. For those, you have to have a good understanding of ingredients in general and how they will interact.

 

[brewkinger]

1) Agree with the purchase of DGB.

2) Also agree with the variations and changes that would make DGB "seem" obsolete, but refer back to #1

3) Surprisingly no one mentioned this, and perhaps it is because I am the only one that does this: Much like the OP stated with a cooking recipe and knowledge and taste of the ingredients.
Taste your grains. Maybe not so much the base malts, although that is how I became very aware of the subtle (and sometimes glaring) differences between for example: UK 2 row and Maris Otter.
Similar BUT very different.
Crystals, Vienna, Munich and my favorite Biscuit.

Also tasting and smelling the wort at EVERY step of the mash, lauter and sparge, as well as pre boil and pre ferment.

I may be way off base here, but that is what I do.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I am a relatively new member to the forum but a long time all-grain brewer that took a long hiatus. I am a self-proclaimed redneck brewery. I did about 6 all grain batches using kits from companies that disclosed their ingredients. I learned the flavors I liked and attributed them to certain malts and guestimated promotions. This was before EXCELLENT free online resources like this and various brew calculators.

I then proceed to buy in bulk my top 4 ingredients...3 malts and one hop...in bulk. I picked an all-purpose yeast. I then made beers that sounded like a good mix of ingredients. Take detailed notes. Drink. Take detailed notes. Adjust recipe.

I landed on three house brews that were in constant rotation that use primarily those those 4 ingredients plus...whatever in smaller quantities. My "Get-er-Done Copper Ale" became the toast of the neighborhood. It was very basic being 22 #'s of 6-row Briess, 2 # 120 Crystal, 1 # Carapils and appropriate amount of Cascade hops to hit about 55 IBU's for an 11 gal batch (I bought bulk whole hops yearly so the AA rating changed from year to year). It got to the point I did no even weigh the malt because I put a mark on my 5-gal bucket that went under the mill and I knew that my plastic Octoberfest pitcher was a 2# of uncrushed grain. One pitcher of crystal, half pitcher of carapils and then the rest 6-row until I hit my mark.

What I am getting at is if you know what you like, figure out what makes it special, start there and adjust to your particular taste and equipment. Later play with one element at a time to see how it effects the beer (like my switch from Nottingham to London II yeast).

I still did two "big" beers a year and if I was ambitious enough to do a 3-brew session I would make the first beer something different (before the sampling of prior product began). Overall, I treated beer making like a good pasta...start with what you like, play with the proportions until you get to what you love.

Edit: FYI...unlike my copper alle, no one but me loved my Porter and that was just fine with me. It was similar to the copper ale but with Chocolate malt, de-husked black patent and less hops and a little less base grain. I could drink that for days!

 

[rklinck]

1)
Taste your grains. Maybe not so much the base malts, although that is how I became very aware of the subtle (and sometimes glaring) differences between for example: UK 2 row and Maris Otter.
Similar BUT very different.
Crystals, Vienna, Munich and my favorite Biscuit.

Also tasting and smelling the wort at EVERY step of the mash, lauter and sparge, as well as pre boil and pre ferment.

I may be way off base here, but that is what I do.

I have tried tasting the grains but it does not help me much. While I can tell a difference between base malt and caramel 120, I sure can't make out much of a difference between Carmel 40 and Caramel 80. Sometimes I curse my palate.

I have the same problem with tasting and smelling the wort. To be honest, pretty much all wort tastes the same to me (excepting my stouts). It just tastes like sweet hoppy liquid. It always amazes me HOW different the beers end up after the fermentation (even using the same yeast).

I have considered doing an "experiment" brew to get myself a better sense for malt flavors. The plan is to brew a 5 gallon batch of base beer (all 2-Row, with about 25 IBUs and little to no hop flavor or aroma). I would then split this up into about 15 growlers. One would be the control beer. For the others, the plan is to steep 1 ounce of malt in a couple of ounces of water and then add that in. I was going to use all the caramels, some roasted malts, and maybe a few others. Then after they have fermented, it is time for a taste test. That would really let me learn how these malts taste to MY palate.

 

[daksin]

Brewing Classic Styles is aimed at extract brewers but always includes an all-grain recipe as well. I use it as a quick reference to see if the beer I've made is way off base, or to get an idea of what a time-tested award winning beer looks like. It was a good feeling designing my first wee heavy, flipping to the BCS page, and finding an almost identical recipe. It's good for tuning your feelers.

I also agree that BCS is great for beer history and insight into styles and process, but for me it leans too heavily on what ingredients past NHC beers have contained, and I don't think that's the right way to go about it at all. Definitely a must-read though. Really the key to designing recipes is brewing enough that you learn what each ingredient and process lends to your finished beer. That way you can read an existing recipe and go "oh, you know what, I don't like so much X in my beer, I'll dial that back and add some Y to get the sweetness back."

 

[BanginBanjo]

You should definitely read "Brewing Better Beer" by Gordon Strong. Great resource for homebrewers of all experience levels. It doesn't deal with recipe formulation or individual ingredients as much as some other texts, but it pretty much touches on all aspects of brewing and in my opinion is a must read.

 

[Oginme]

Try "Designing Great Beers" by Ray Daniels:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0937381500/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I think that fits the bill pretty closely for what you are looking for.

+1 to this advice.

While the information inside is dated, the thought process that Daniels puts forward is very valid: Understand the ingredients and how they fit together, analyze the desired style characteristics, flavors, aromas, etc. Formulate to obtain the desired properties.

 

[Denny]

I have tried tasting the grains but it does not help me much. While I can tell a difference between base malt and caramel 120, I sure can't make out much of a difference between Carmel 40 and Caramel 80. Sometimes I curse my palate.

Try making grain tea. Much less disgusting to taste than hop tea! Here's an excerpt of an article I wrote for Zymurgy...

"For grains, try putting 4 oz. of water in a cup in the microwave for a minute. It should heat up to about 170F. Stir in 1.5 oz. of crushed grain (about 4 heaping tablespoons) and let the mixture sit for about 30 min. to be sure you get conversion of the starches in the grain. You may need to reheat the mixture in the microwave once or twice during that time. I put it in for 30 seconds after 10 minutes and another 30 seconds after 10 more, and then let it sit for the final 10 minutes. Pour the mixture through a coffee filter and let the liquid drain off. You’ll be left with a couple of tablespoons of a sweet, malty liquid that really lets the flavor of the grain shine. Make sure to write down your impressions of the flavor and aroma so you can compare them to the next grain you try. Once you have an idea of the flavors of individual grains, try making a tea with a combination of grains to see how they work together. "

 

[helibrewer]

Try making grain tea. Much less disgusting to taste than hop tea! Here's an excerpt of an article I wrote for Zymurgy...

"For grains, try putting 4 oz. of water in a cup in the microwave for a minute. It should heat up to about 170F. Stir in 1.5 oz. of crushed grain (about 4 heaping tablespoons) and let the mixture sit for about 30 min. to be sure you get conversion of the starches in the grain. You may need to reheat the mixture in the microwave once or twice during that time. I put it in for 30 seconds after 10 minutes and another 30 seconds after 10 more, and then let it sit for the final 10 minutes. Pour the mixture through a coffee filter and let the liquid drain off. You’ll be left with a couple of tablespoons of a sweet, malty liquid that really lets the flavor of the grain shine. Make sure to write down your impressions of the flavor and aroma so you can compare them to the next grain you try. Once you have an idea of the flavors of individual grains, try making a tea with a combination of grains to see how they work together. "

Thanks Denny, I think I will do this with the collection of grain I have on hand....great idea and probably much better than just chewing on a few grains.

 

[ArcLight]

Denny,
Thanks for posting this, I'm going to try this ASAP. I have quite a lot of tasting to do

>>"For grains, try putting 4 oz. of water in a cup in the microwave for a minute. It should heat up to about 170F. Stir in 1.5 oz. of crushed grain (about 4 heaping tablespoons) and let the mixture sit for about 30 min. to be sure you get conversion of the starches in the grain. You may need to reheat the mixture in the microwave once or twice during that time. I put it in for 30 seconds after 10 minutes and another 30 seconds after 10 more, and then let it sit for the final 10 minutes. Pour the mixture through a coffee filter and let the liquid drain off. You’ll be left with a couple of tablespoons of a sweet, malty liquid that really lets the flavor of the grain shine. Make sure to write down your impressions of the flavor and aroma so you can compare them to the next grain you try. Once you have an idea of the flavors of individual grains, try making a tea with a combination of grains to see how they work together. "

 

[Bensiff]

This is awesome advice for when you are looking to brew an established style (even styles that are not yet BJCP recognized styles like Black IPAs). I find the hardest part is coming up with hybrid recipes that don't fit a single style. For those, you have to have a good understanding of ingredients in general and how they will interact.

One thing I have found is that there are styles for a reason, hybrids often times end up being muddled and just not tasting right. That isn't to say I'm a style only advocate, just that it is good to stay within styles when learning about the ingredients, once one knows the ingredients, like the OP talked about in cooking, then you start to get a grasp of what you can do with them increasing the chance that an attempt to create something new is more likely to meet success than a muddled mess.

 

[strambo]

I've only been brewing for a year and a half or so, but I have yet to buy a kit or follow another recipe. I started out with Beersmith and just create my own. Like you said about cooking, I look up 2-3 recipes for the style and base mine on that tweaked to my tastes. I've had a few batches that were "meh", most are good, some have been great!

A lot of the allure to brewing for me was creating and tweaking my own recipes. Some are stupid simple, I started out with a complex APA recipe, but settled on 2 row and a 1lb of C10. Hops are .5 oz FWH of Magnum and whatever hops I want to explore the flavor of at the time at 20 mins, flameout and dry hop. My Amarillo APA was totally bad ass, my Marionberry Strong Ale not so much (heh, not surprising!)

 

[Fishin-Jay]

There are some great ideas in this thread. I've ordered Designing Great Beers, and also Radical Brewing. I might try the grain tea idea too! Thanks for all the replies!

 

[revelation]

I recently did a dry hop experiment, where I used 0.1oz of bittering hops in a basic dme wort. Then dry hopped the bottles with different hops. I got an excellent taste for each of them.

 

[dyqik]

In addition to the books (which I admit I haven't seen or read), I'd suggest trying a few SMaSH or very simple recipes (base malt plus one addition, single hop or bittering hop plus aroma hop) to get a feel for how the flavors tie together, and using those to tie other peoples tasting notes to yours.